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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > BMW E90/E92/E93 3-series General Forums > Regional Forums > UK > UK Technical Forum > Loosing the will to live.



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      01-05-2015, 10:38 AM   #1
Gazza0210
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Loosing the will to live.

Hi,

I've posted about this before, thanks to everyone that replied previously.

Basically I have a knocking/cracking sound coming from the front passenger side when turning the wheel. It only really happens when once you are on full lock to the left then start to turn back to the right. It also only happens when the car is on the ground not when it's jacked up.

I have had two garage's look at it and can't find the issue. One said it's definitely not the steering rack but could be the droplinks. I had new droplinks on but thought what the hell, disconnected the droplinks and it still did it.

The other one said that it sounds like its coming from behind the hub but they can't pinpoint the noise.

Anyone have any idea's of a garage in East London that may know their way around an E90 more than a standard garage?? or have any suggestions as to what it could be?

The car has done 71k and to my knowledge is still on the original track rod ends and control arms.

Thanks in advance for any suggestions/help you can offer.

Gaz
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      01-05-2015, 11:44 AM   #2
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Does it do it when stationary, or only when moving?

Personally, having read what's been looked at thus far, I'd suggest having a look at the front suspension top mounts. Could be the bearings in the mount.

Without any weight on the car, there's no load on the mount bearings - which also ties in with what you say about it only doing it when the car's wheels are all on the deck.

Any MOT garage should have a ramp with suitable plates, allowing the front wheels to be turned lock to lock whilst the car is sat in it's normal position, but without needing to be in motion.
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      01-05-2015, 12:51 PM   #3
Gazza0210
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Thanks for the reply guys,

LukeG, When the second garage looked at it they had it on a 4post lift. They could hear the noise but couldn't identify where it was coming from.
I thought if it was the bearing it would be a droaning sort of noise rather than a knock or cracking sound.

Russbmw, It does it when stationary and when slowly moving like when you are parking etc. I was going to change the topmount just for the hell of it to see if that was it. I have popped the cap off the top and watched the bearing from under the bonnet with someone turning the wheel and there isn't any sudden jolts or binding in the bearing from what I can see but its not the most scientific way of checking I guess lol. For 30/40 quid for a new one its worth a punt.
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      01-06-2015, 05:14 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LukeG View Post
Those were the exact symptoms at Audi. Slow driving/stationary and making sharp turns. If they put a stethoscope on the knuckle they should hear the cracking/popping is it's coming from the wheel bearing.
Thanks for your reply mate.

I have ordered a stethoscope to see if I can hear it as you described. Hopefully this is the solution and will get me back to enjoying my car again rather than contemplating trading it in.

I will report back at the weekend when I get a chance to have a look.

Thanks once again to both of you for your help and advice
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      01-06-2015, 05:32 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LukeG View Post
Those were the exact symptoms at Audi. Slow driving/stationary and making sharp turns. If they put a stethoscope on the knuckle they should hear the cracking/popping is it's coming from the wheel bearing.
cracking/popping at full lock on an audi would be the CV joint, not a wheel bearing. if a wheel bearing was that goosed it was audibly cracking and popping at lock, it would be howling like all hell at speed, you wouldnt be able to hear anything else!

i suspect this is one/all of the ball joints on the front end. to test this, get the car in the air, get under it and put a hand on each of the lower arms, then get a burly friend to manhandle the alloy wheel. if you feel even the slightest of "knocks" in the arms, they are finished and need replaced.
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      01-06-2015, 09:48 AM   #6
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^ agree with the comments above re: FWD CV joint vs wheel bearing.

I too still think it's suspension related- be that balljoints, bushes or mounts.
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      01-06-2015, 11:09 AM   #7
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LOL! Chill out mate.

Are you questioning my experience of failed BMW wheel bearings (you have no idea how old I am nor how many BMW's I've owned and worked on) - or anyone elses on here, for that matter?

I've not heard this guys car, and neither have you. So your opinion is no more valid or void than anyone elses.

What you are suggesting is certainly not outside the realms of possibility, but the above analysis is correct in as much that if the wheel bearing (without a CV joint, as it's not a front wheel drive car) is making that much noise when STATIONARY, then it would indeed almost certainly be vibrating like buggery as well as making the worst noise imaginable when the car was in motion.

As even the slightest play (in my experience) in the more modern type of wheel bearings results in whining, or if reasonably shot, rumblings when in motion at anywhere over about 35-40mph.

If the wheels on the car are not in motion, and the same noise is generated simply by turning the steering wheel lock to lock, on the basis the car is not howling like a wounded dog when driving, the fault is probably more likely to be related to suspension components.

It's a forum. People express opinions and share experiences. Me personally, I'd not be hanging my hat on any "my car's making a weird noise" diagnosis without actually having chance to look at or hear the noises first hand.....and hence, am (like you) sharing my opinion to try assist the guy.

There's no harm in suggesting sensible and likely things that can be checked free of charge (no stethoscope needed).

All said and done, it's all useful information without a doubt, and all opinions from full time mechanics is always useful - but that doesn't mean that those who aren't full time mechanics should not express their thoughts and experience on the matter as well.
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Last edited by Russbmw; 01-06-2015 at 11:16 AM.
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      01-06-2015, 12:08 PM   #8
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I would say to get it on shaker plate's and turn plate's check for play in the top mount's . I would suspect this from what you have said but without hearing it it's hard for anyone to say . Unless they have had simalier problem's . For what it's worth I'm a time severed mechanic with 18 year's experience and also an mot tester . Top mount's or even the spring turning slightly would give this sound.

Hope you get it sorted soon . One thing I hate is noise's that you can't find .
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      01-06-2015, 05:17 PM   #9
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Thanks for all your input guys,

There is nothing worse than knowing that there is an issue with the car but not being able to identify it, It drives me crazy lol.

I think that due to the two garages looking at the car and not identifying the top mounts, control arms or track rod ends i'm going to check around the bearing housing with the stethoscope and see if thats where the noise is coming from.

Thanks again everyone, I will report back at the weekend.
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      01-06-2015, 05:56 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LukeG View Post
You confidently stated that on a Audi a popping noise would be the CV joint and not the wheel bearing. Well in those particular cases it was the wheel bearing and nothing else. No groaning/howling at any speeds, just cracking/popping during turns.

I am chill, just defending my real world experience vs your stipulation of what "typically" happens. Obviously this guys has had 2 places try and diagnose the problem without luck so I'm suggesting that out of the ordinary possibility.

No, I think you'll find if you read back through the replies that IceKube "confidently stated" the Audi CV joint initially, but yes I did agree with him because first hand experience or not, it is a valid and correct statement.

Quote:
Originally Posted by billyyoung View Post
I would say to get it on shaker plate's and turn plate's check for play in the top mount's . I would suspect this from what you have said but without hearing it it's hard for anyone to say . Unless they have had simalier problem's . For what it's worth I'm a time severed mechanic with 18 year's experience and also an mot tester . Top mount's or even the spring turning slightly would give this sound.

Hope you get it sorted soon . One thing I hate is noise's that you can't find .
And it's nice to see another qualified mechanic also suggesting what I mentioned first off about checking the top mounts!
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Last edited by Russbmw; 01-06-2015 at 06:02 PM.
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      01-06-2015, 07:23 PM   #11
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Hard to say from your description, I had a 335i that made a similar sound to this but only on tight right hand turns under load eg mini roundabout and full lock, the sound was actually from the rear not the front even though it sounded like it was the front.

So check rear drive shafts, diff etc (output bearings?). It never got any worse on our car in 25,000 miles us so we just left it.
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      01-07-2015, 03:12 AM   #12
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I know this response is of not much help but what kind of garage hears a sound but has no clue what it is?!
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      01-07-2015, 11:36 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LukeG View Post
You confidently stated that on a Audi a popping noise would be the CV joint and not the wheel bearing. Well in those particular cases it was the wheel bearing and nothing else. No groaning/howling at any speeds, just cracking/popping during turns.

I am chill, just defending my real world experience vs your stipulation of what "typically" happens. Obviously this guys has had 2 places try and diagnose the problem without luck so I'm suggesting that out of the ordinary possibility.
fair enough you had this real world experience, but it makes no sense for a sealed bearing pack to have enough play to be "popping and clicking" yet be totally silent when moving. ANY play in a bearing results in noise, and enough play to make audible popping and clicking noises when stationary will be deafening at speed.

I suspect there was something else at play in those cases, and just disassembly and reassembly of the steering knuckle fixed it (like an incorrectly torqued bolt or something).
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      01-07-2015, 12:20 PM   #14
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Guys, I really appreciate everyone's input into my problem but please, there is no need for any bad feeling between you guys.

You have both had experience with similar problems resulting in different components needing replacing.

Just for clarification and to put things to bed here is the technical bulletin LukeG is talking about.

http://workshop-manuals.com/audi/a8l...earing/400806/

Hopefully it may help someone in the future if they have a similar issue.......that is of course if it turns out to be the bearing lol.

Cheers once again guys.
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      01-12-2015, 02:41 PM   #15
Gazza0210
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I think I may have cracked it.

I had a friend sit in the car and spin the wheel back and forth so I could hear the noise from the wheel. Something urged me to follow the lead suggested by Russbmw and have a look at the topmounts.

Anyways I haven't got to that bit yet but I popped the caps off the top of the topmounts from under the bonnet, looked at the thread of the shock as the wheels are turning and low and behold the drivers side which is making no noise is rotating with the steering and the passengers side which is the noisy side tends to stop rotating at the point where the noise becomes apparent. It don't rotate anywhere near as fluidly as the drivers side.

I am going to grab a new top mount and change it over at the weekend and hopefully this will sort it all out.

Once again thanks for all the advice and help.
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      01-12-2015, 05:44 PM   #16
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Sounds promising mate. Well done.
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