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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > VANOS Control with the Xede



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      06-07-2007, 07:07 PM   #1
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VANOS Control with the Xede

All the hype about potential VANOS control lately has procede owners very excited, and those of us without a procede wondering if we’re screwed.

So, on behalf of the latter, I did a little online research on the system. As you can see from the attachments, there are digital sensors that determine the cam timing, and analog solenoids that actually manipulate the cam positioning.

Presumably, the procede is going to intercept the digital signal from the cams and offset that, like the crank position sensor. From what has been posted, the Xede is lacking digital inputs and therefore won’t be able to manipulate these sensors.

So the next logical question, why not just use an analog input/output to manipulate the VANOS solenoid directly? Perhaps you want one setting for maximum power, which you can trigger at a specific RPM. This would also be easy to implement on the Xede. So long story short, I wish I had a dyno and time to test this stuff out for everyone, but not all hope is lost for Xede owners.

Last edited by Terry335; 12-19-2007 at 11:20 AM.
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      06-07-2007, 08:05 PM   #2
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Terry although you get a lot of crap..im always impressed by your research..

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      06-07-2007, 08:07 PM   #3
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It's like he's two separate people. The apparently intelligent software geek with apparent EE knowledge, and the forum troll with no useful comments. I'm bewildered and intrigued.
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      06-07-2007, 08:17 PM   #4
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VVT control is a closed loop logic system. You need to read actual position and adjust the control solenoid until the desired position is reached. It would be interesting to see this done with a couple extra analog inputs/outputs.

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      06-07-2007, 08:19 PM   #5
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Just got to be in the loop Are the Xede guys in the loop?
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      06-07-2007, 08:27 PM   #6
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I'm so illiterate in this stuff. Please enlighten the stupid - what does VANOS control do, and what is it all about? For a few of those like me, in plain english please...
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      06-07-2007, 08:40 PM   #7
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cam phasing/timing or something like that.. vamos is bmw term for Variabl valve timing or vtec or whatever blah blah blah idk i havnt looked to far into it
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      06-07-2007, 08:54 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu View Post
VVT control is a closed loop logic system. You need to read actual position and adjust the control solenoid until the desired position is reached. It would be interesting to see this done with a couple extra analog inputs/outputs.

shiv
Yeah, I thought of that on the way home. If you force the solenoid the system will sense it's out of phase and throw a code.

Didn't Lok say the Xede had extra digital outputs? Perhaps they can replicate the output based on the CPS, and use an analog signal to control the solenoid directly.

Either way I sold my Xede so I'm not vested in the solution. It's interesting to note that with a Terry Tuner you'd be able to control this in the same manor you can ignition timing. They make $6 IC chips that are meant to phase digital sensors like this.
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      06-07-2007, 08:55 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDomer View Post
It's like he's two separate people. The apparently intelligent software geek with apparent EE knowledge, and the forum troll with no useful comments. I'm bewildered and intrigued.
Got to take the bad with the good.
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      06-07-2007, 08:58 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bimmerlex View Post
I'm so illiterate in this stuff. Please enlighten the stupid - what does VANOS control do, and what is it all about? For a few of those like me, in plain english please...
I'm very new to it also, but it allows the ECU to advance or retard the intake and exhaust cam profile ~12 degrees. The idea is you run a small cam profile at idle and at low RPM to reduce overlap (smoother idle and lower emmissions), and then open the cam profile up at higher RPM for better VE.
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      06-07-2007, 08:59 PM   #11
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Where did you get the schematics????
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      06-07-2007, 09:00 PM   #12
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Where did you get the schematics????
If I told you I might get sued.

(I still might!)
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      06-07-2007, 09:02 PM   #13
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Quote:
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If I told you I might get sued.

(I still might!)
That is not fair, I have been wanting these since the day I picked up the vehicle.
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      06-07-2007, 09:09 PM   #14
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Where did you get the schematics????
Google is your friend and found this

http://www.autocd.com/index.html?q=10&gc=1923&sha=0
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      06-07-2007, 09:09 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bimmerlex View Post
I'm so illiterate in this stuff. Please enlighten the stupid - what does VANOS control do, and what is it all about? For a few of those like me, in plain english please...
BMW uses the term VANOS. VANOS in German stands for Variable Nockenwellen Steuerung or in Engligh... Variable Valve Cam Timing.

The 1st generation VANOS was introduced in 1993 on the M50TU 6 cylinder engines. VANOS was only on the intake side and at idle the VANOS is turned off/retarded position for a smooth idle. At part throttle loads VANOS is turned on/advanced position to increase volumetric efficiency. At higher RPMS say after 5000rpms, VANOS is turned off/retarded position. This generation could only advance cam timing by 12.5 degrees and is on or off. This was a fixed position and NOT fully variable.

2nd genertation VANOS came on the M62TU V8 engines. It was only on the intake side but cam timing was fully adjustable (I think 30 degrees). The result was a great improvement in power.

Double VANOS first came on the M52TU engines in 1999. It featured fully variable cam timing on both intake (40 degrees) and exhaust side (25 degrees). This allowed improved torque and better emissions.

On a turbo setup you want the intake cam to retard a bit early on the rpm range and I think exhaust side you want it to advance a bit.
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      06-07-2007, 09:26 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry335 View Post
Got to take the bad with the good.
I thought that only applied to marriages, not the Internet
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      06-07-2007, 09:30 PM   #17
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      06-07-2007, 09:34 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry335 View Post
Got to take the bad with the good.
Uggh.... but it's soooooo painful.
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      06-07-2007, 09:41 PM   #19
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Terry, when I read one of your productive threads like this I give you credit , but at the same time I have to wonder if you are going through all of this trouble to help Xede owners or that you just want to take away whatever edge you think Shiv may have over his competitors now. In any case, that would be funny if you could control vanos with a $6 part, but then again that would increase the cost of the terry tuner by 300%.
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      06-08-2007, 12:13 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BoostedBMW View Post
Terry, when I read one of your productive threads like this I give you credit , but at the same time I have to wonder if you are going through all of this trouble to help Xede owners or that you just want to take away whatever edge you think Shiv may have over his competitors now. In any case, that would be funny if you could control vanos with a $6 part, but then again that would increase the cost of the terry tuner by 300%.
Heh yeah pretty soon it will be so expensive we're better off buying a procede.

An EE friend of mine found this chip that would be perfect:

http://www.analog.com/en/prod/0,,762...7022%2C00.html

This one is ~$3.98 in lots of 1000 and is a complete microprocessor with 4 digital outputs. I wonder if this is the same chip Haltech uses? They make various versions with more or less outputs. You'd need this chip, some transistors, a few resistors, and someone with more EE background than me, but you could make something with more inputs/outputs than the procede for not much cash. I'm going to order one and try to figure it out in my spare time. I'm sure Shiv spent a lot of time with these chips when he was designing the interceptor hardware.. lol!
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      06-08-2007, 12:30 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jon@themshop View Post
BMW uses the term VANOS. VANOS in German stands for Variable Nockenwellen Steuerung or in Engligh... Variable Valve Cam Timing.

The 1st generation VANOS was introduced in 1993 on the M50TU 6 cylinder engines. VANOS was only on the intake side and at idle the VANOS is turned off/retarded position for a smooth idle. At part throttle loads VANOS is turned on/advanced position to increase volumetric efficiency. At higher RPMS say after 5000rpms, VANOS is turned off/retarded position. This generation could only advance cam timing by 12.5 degrees and is on or off. This was a fixed position and NOT fully variable.

2nd genertation VANOS came on the M62TU V8 engines. It was only on the intake side but cam timing was fully adjustable (I think 30 degrees). The result was a great improvement in power.

Double VANOS first came on the M52TU engines in 1999. It featured fully variable cam timing on both intake (40 degrees) and exhaust side (25 degrees). This allowed improved torque and better emissions.

On a turbo setup you want the intake cam to retard a bit early on the rpm range and I think exhaust side you want it to advance a bit.
Thank you, Jon
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      06-08-2007, 07:02 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Move.Over View Post
Google is your friend and found this

http://www.autocd.com/index.html?q=10&gc=1923&sha=0
Thank You!!!
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