E90Post
 


TNT Racewerks
 
BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > BMW E90/E92/E93 3-series General Forums > Regional Forums > Australia > Advan - Cobb - Procede



Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      04-12-2012, 01:04 AM   #67
RaihaX
Major General
RaihaX's Avatar
Australia
65
Rep
5,029
Posts

 
Drives: 08' 135i
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Australia, Perth

iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by pavo335 View Post
Rey do you have it?
On the last version (v301) I had it, was quite noticeable, with the new beta (v401) I cannot feel anything but my logs still shows a bit of oscilation down low.

Main thing is that I can't feel it now so I am happy

Last edited by RaihaX; 04-12-2012 at 01:04 AM. Reason: grammar
Appreciate 0
      04-12-2012, 01:13 AM   #68
adrian@vishnu
Captain
Australia
12
Rep
672
Posts

 
Drives: 135i
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Sydney, Australia

iTrader: (0)

Be aware that even though the boost curve shows oscillation, the power curve does not show much in the way of power oscillating in response to this. This is because the throttle would be closing as the boost goes up on the oscillation and opening as it goes down. This is because the DME uses a load targetting based load system. It targets a certain airflow, and raises boost to achieve that airflow, but if boost goes too high it closes the throttle to achieve desired airflow (throttle can respond much quicker than turbine speed).

So you may or may not feel this boost oscillation to drive... which is good or bad depending on how you look at it... good because it does not effect the driving experience, but bad because your turbine speed is oscillating when there is no real need for this to be happening. Personally I feel that the most efficient way for an engine to operate is for it to run with the throttle fully open and boost controlled by turbine speed. Closing the throttle is just introducing a restriction not unlike a poor flowing intercooler or chargepipe. This results in turning excessive boost energy into heat rather than power which is not efficient in my eyes... but that is just my opinion.
Appreciate 0
      04-12-2012, 01:16 AM   #69
RaihaX
Major General
RaihaX's Avatar
Australia
65
Rep
5,029
Posts

 
Drives: 08' 135i
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Australia, Perth

iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by adrian@vishnu View Post
Be aware that even though the boost curve shows oscillation, the power curve does not show much in the way of power oscillating in response to this. This is because the throttle would be closing as the boost goes up on the oscillation and opening as it goes down. This is because the DME uses a load targetting based load system. It targets a certain airflow, and raises boost to achieve that airflow, but if boost goes too high it closes the throttle to achieve desired airflow (throttle can respond much quicker than turbine speed).

So you may or may not feel this boost oscillation to drive... which is good or bad depending on how you look at it... good because it does not effect the driving experience, but bad because your turbine speed is oscillating when there is no real need for this to be happening. Personally I feel that the most efficient way for an engine to operate is for it to run with the throttle fully open and boost controlled by turbine speed. Closing the throttle is just introducing a restriction not unlike a poor flowing intercooler or chargepipe. This results in turning excessive boost energy into heat rather than power which is not efficient in my eyes... but that is just my opinion.
Interesting - definitely a good thread, a wealth of knowledge in here
Appreciate 0
      04-12-2012, 02:13 AM   #70
BMWPWR
Second Lieutenant
BMWPWR's Avatar
2
Rep
226
Posts

 
Drives: '12 ///M3
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: ///M

iTrader: (0)

Doesn't this car have an M3 diff? The diff ratio may be different to Pete's original diff.. This can alter the dyno figure?
Appreciate 0
      04-12-2012, 03:08 AM   #71
Freefreefive
Private First Class
Australia
3
Rep
129
Posts

 
Drives: 335i Coupe
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Melbourne

iTrader: (0)

I'm off to the track tomorrow so if Pete can send me he details then I can report back on how the procede with the maps performs on the track.

I'll also be doing data logs. 3rd gear pulls to redline!!!
Appreciate 0
      04-12-2012, 03:09 AM   #72
Stuart@BMRAutowerkes
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor
Stuart@BMRAutowerkes's Avatar
96
Rep
4,873
Posts


 
Drives: a black car
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Sydney

iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWPWR View Post
Doesn't this car have an M3 diff? The diff ratio may be different to Pete's original diff.. This can alter the dyno figure?
Could be...

Pete, what's the baseline number
Appreciate 0
      04-12-2012, 04:29 AM   #73
Peter@Advan
Peter@Advan's Avatar
Australia
43
Rep
1,423
Posts

 
Drives: 335 coupe ADVAN
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Sydney

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Freefreefive View Post
I'm off to the track tomorrow so if Pete can send me he details then I can report back on how the procede with the maps performs on the track.

I'll also be doing data logs. 3rd gear pulls to redline!!!
Hi there Freefreefive
I will send you the info in the morning price will be $335.00 Just kidding, there will be no charge send me an email peter@advanperformance.com.au
regards Peter
Appreciate 0
      04-12-2012, 04:38 AM   #74
Peter@Advan
Peter@Advan's Avatar
Australia
43
Rep
1,423
Posts

 
Drives: 335 coupe ADVAN
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Sydney

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWPWR View Post
Doesn't this car have an M3 diff? The diff ratio may be different to Pete's original diff.. This can alter the dyno figure?
Yep i do have the M3 diff and love it as far as power goes there may be a slight increase 2-5kw due to the diff, but the difference is so small between ratios it is not likely. Our car has a power base line of 197kw stock 4th gear @ 6000rpm
Appreciate 0
      04-12-2012, 04:43 AM   #75
Freefreefive
Private First Class
Australia
3
Rep
129
Posts

 
Drives: 335i Coupe
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Melbourne

iTrader: (0)

Email sent. Thanks Pete. I'll report back tomorrow night.
Appreciate 0
      04-12-2012, 04:45 AM   #76
BMWPWR
Second Lieutenant
BMWPWR's Avatar
2
Rep
226
Posts

 
Drives: '12 ///M3
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: ///M

iTrader: (0)

That's a good jump in power for tune only!! I better get myself a tune soon
Appreciate 0
      04-12-2012, 04:56 AM   #77
MO3
Captain
MO3's Avatar
Australia
15
Rep
865
Posts

 
Drives: M235i
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Sydney

iTrader: (5)

Great work Peter! Can't wait to get my Cobb, hopefully next week!
Appreciate 0
      04-12-2012, 05:01 AM   #78
Peter@Advan
Peter@Advan's Avatar
Australia
43
Rep
1,423
Posts

 
Drives: 335 coupe ADVAN
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Sydney

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWPWR View Post
That's a good jump in power for tune only!! I better get myself a tune soon
That is why i have put so much time into the BMW turbo cars. There is still very much more to come. the tune ability of these cars reminds me of the Skyline GTR 20 years ago, we have just started the BMW journey
Appreciate 0
      04-12-2012, 05:11 AM   #79
BMWPWR
Second Lieutenant
BMWPWR's Avatar
2
Rep
226
Posts

 
Drives: '12 ///M3
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: ///M

iTrader: (0)

I can just imagine! I almost want to buy another 335i in manual for a project car! But still exxy for a starting point..

I have the DCT in mine hopefully it holds up well with the tune
Appreciate 0
      04-12-2012, 06:27 AM   #80
RaihaX
Major General
RaihaX's Avatar
Australia
65
Rep
5,029
Posts

 
Drives: 08' 135i
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Australia, Perth

iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWPWR View Post
I can just imagine! I almost want to buy another 335i in manual for a project car! But still exxy for a starting point..

I have the DCT in mine hopefully it holds up well with the tune
You should be good until you start going to FBO + Meth, that is when things start slipping from what I hear!
Appreciate 0
      04-12-2012, 06:51 AM   #81
BMWPWR
Second Lieutenant
BMWPWR's Avatar
2
Rep
226
Posts

 
Drives: '12 ///M3
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: ///M

iTrader: (0)

That's fine as I'm going to start out with an intake and tune and won't be using meth
Appreciate 0
      04-12-2012, 06:56 AM   #82
RaihaX
Major General
RaihaX's Avatar
Australia
65
Rep
5,029
Posts

 
Drives: 08' 135i
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Australia, Perth

iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWPWR View Post
That's fine as I'm going to start out with an intake and tune and won't be using meth
The lure/temptation of meth is too strong that is what I said as well, just a tune is fine, then FBO then meth....

Now I want upgraded turbos
Appreciate 0
      04-12-2012, 07:01 AM   #83
Alpina_B3_Lux
Colonel
Alpina_B3_Lux's Avatar
Germany
63
Rep
2,451
Posts

 
Drives: Audi R8 V10, BMW 330d E91 LCI
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Germany

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2009 335i  [4.39]
Quote:
Originally Posted by adrian@vishnu View Post
Be aware that even though the boost curve shows oscillation, the power curve does not show much in the way of power oscillating in response to this. This is because the throttle would be closing as the boost goes up on the oscillation and opening as it goes down. This is because the DME uses a load targetting based load system. It targets a certain airflow, and raises boost to achieve that airflow, but if boost goes too high it closes the throttle to achieve desired airflow (throttle can respond much quicker than turbine speed).
COBB does not use a load targeting approach like the stock DME does, at least not for their stage 2 and stage 3 tunes. That was already mentioned on several occasions in the US forums.

Alpina_B3_Lux
__________________
Audi R8 V10; sold: BMW 335i
Appreciate 0
      04-12-2012, 07:03 AM   #84
woosh
Colonel
woosh's Avatar
Australia
34
Rep
2,241
Posts

 
Drives: Canyonero SUV
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Sydney

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by MO3 View Post
Great work Peter! Can't wait to get my Cobb, hopefully next week!
We're in the same batch I think =)
Appreciate 0
      04-12-2012, 08:06 AM   #85
Stuart@BMRAutowerkes
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor
Stuart@BMRAutowerkes's Avatar
96
Rep
4,873
Posts


 
Drives: a black car
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Sydney

iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by woosh View Post
We're in the same batch I think =)
Yes you are lol
Appreciate 0
      04-12-2012, 03:38 PM   #86
pavo335
Banned
pavo335's Avatar
33
Rep
2,981
Posts

 
Drives: 3.5 wheeler
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: sydney

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by RaihaX
Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWPWR View Post
I can just imagine! I almost want to buy another 335i in manual for a project car! But still exxy for a starting point..

I have the DCT in mine hopefully it holds up well with the tune
You should be good until you start going to FBO + Meth, that is when things start slipping from what I hear!
No meth yet :-( still waiting on gramps to get me a tank
I have been fbo for a while and no slippage on the dct.
Appreciate 0
      04-12-2012, 05:52 PM   #87
shu
Private First Class
1
Rep
102
Posts

 
Drives: E92 335i
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Melbourne

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by bmroxm5 View Post
Yes you are lol
I hope I'm in that batch too
Appreciate 0
      04-12-2012, 06:55 PM   #88
adrian@vishnu
Captain
Australia
12
Rep
672
Posts

 
Drives: 135i
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Sydney, Australia

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpina_B3_Lux View Post
COBB does not use a load targeting approach like the stock DME does, at least not for their stage 2 and stage 3 tunes. That was already mentioned on several occasions in the US forums.

Alpina_B3_Lux
Given the 2psi boost oscillations without corresponding oscillation of power, it must be something very much the same... The throttle is closing during those boost spikes... or you would see the power oscillate with boost. So maybe it is not load targeting as such by their definition, but there is definitely some throttle activity happening as part of the boost control that could be easily verified by logging throttle during the oscillation.

There is nothing wrong with load targeting as such anyway. A certain airflow equates to a certain boost anyway. If you set the boost or the airflow, the result is the same. It is the throttle being part of the boost control that I do not like.
Appreciate 0
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:07 PM.




e90post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST