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      06-14-2012, 11:28 AM   #45
jimmylad
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Going to refit on sat morning.

If it can go wrong I will be the one


Car runs well apart from low throttle on the over run then it is jerky. Not all the time though. Light blue smoke is coming from the exhausts when ticking over.

Was your 8mm metal pipe into the egr valve blanked off or did you have to do that yourself. Had no instructions with mine & the obvious thing to do is put the egr vacuum pipe back on the egr housing without knowing if it should be plugged or not. Apart from this it really is plug & play. Nothing to go wrong really.

Can only surmise I might have done some damage having the vacuum pipe connected directly to the inlet with their being no blank in the small metal pipe.

Due a service so might get the Indy to take a look.
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      06-14-2012, 02:00 PM   #46
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Couldn't wait till sat so put it back to how it was. Cleaned the old egr. Started and ran perfectly!!! No smoke no hiccups, perfect.

One thing I did notice was that the spring on the butterfly was in a different position ticking over between the both of them & I think this was the difference but why I do not know.

Also pulling off the egr vacuum pipe when put back to standard made quite a difference to the tick over so looks like mine will have to stay as it is. I can only think that my remap (emaps) may be the reason for this.

Glad there was no lasting problem so will have to leave it as is.

At least the egr got cleaned. . . . Also, the pressure required to open the valve itself is immense. Pushing it with a screwdriver will open it but you won't be able to hold it open for long.
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      06-15-2012, 02:08 PM   #47
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Sorry, i have not been paying attention. When i saw "vacuum connection pipe", I re-read this thread an noticed this picture. It doesn't show it all but it looks like a simple style EGR valve as I had on my E46 320d. No feedback sensor on it? In that case, simply pull off the rubber vacuum line, insert a bolt into it to block airflow, and voila. No more EGR. 20 second job. Worked fine on two of my E46's.

My comment ("surprised if light doesn't come on") was based on the newer systems. The EGR valve has a feedback sensor, so one can't disable it. What I did was remove the butterfly valve from the body/axle. Feedback sensors are on the axle drive mechanisme, so it should not give a fault code. But it did. Due to MAF check.
The blue smoke remark though might indicate the combination of a closing butterfly valve, and disabled EGR flow, results in negative intake pressures causing oil to come up passed the rings. And i do believe the E46 did not have a butterfly valve.
If you have access to a BT tool, or OBD reader, look at what boost pressure does

My butterfly valve is back in. I put it back because it seriousy affects warm up times of the engine. Thru my OBD reader I know how to drive so the engine does not request EGR, except for warm up. But that's likely easier on a 320d than on a 330/335d as my average engine load is higher due to the smaller displacement.
I have the Evolve remap, makes no difference in this respect.

regards,


Quote:
Originally Posted by NotNormal View Post
Here's a picture of my removed egr valve, this is aprox 100,000 miles old :
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      06-15-2012, 02:31 PM   #48
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F104, yes, its a basic egg system, no feed back sensor.
It would be possible to black off the vacuum pipe yes, but this alone will not give me the unrestricted flow i was also wanting to active, but never the less, still better for the engine not having the exhaust gasses passing back into the inlet tract

Regards

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      06-15-2012, 04:43 PM   #49
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What I don't understand is why does it have a butterfly ? what does it do ?

Surely the engine needs maximum airflow on all occasions other than braking and shutting down.

Can't see how a butterfly/air flow restriction would help warm up either but eager to know. Seems more like an air brake to me.

Might re fit mine without the butterfly and try that as I'm sure the butterfly was causing me problems. I also don't like that am mount of restriction on the intake side. Seems a stupid design to me. Why put a 40% restriction in line just before the inlet manifold.

Are there any sensors past the egr or in the inlet manifold ?
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      06-16-2012, 07:26 AM   #50
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The throttle body is there for a few things, it acts as an anti sudden device when turning of the engine, it allows the A/F ratio to be controlled better so it can burn hotter or colder helping the regeneration process

I agree, the restriction in the inlet tract does seem a little brigand could be designed better
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      06-16-2012, 07:53 AM   #51
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on reflection I think ir was the butterfly (or what is controlling it) that was causing my problem at tickover. Car felt good when pushing on & did feel better at full throttle but at tickover I was watching the butterfly valve with the egr bypass on & it was definitely restricting air flow & due to the egr being blanked on the exhaust side it was strangling itself at tickover hence the thought of removing the butterfly as I dont need it for my DPF as that is long gone but helping the engine shut down is what may prevent me from doing this but when I get a few hours & it aint raining I will give it a go & see what happens.

Got to be the remap on mine that is causing it not to work for me but I can live with that.

Not over yet....
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      06-16-2012, 08:43 AM   #52
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the throttle butterfly shouldn't restrict anything, it should move freely and adjust itself according to what the ECU tells it too

I'm not sure if we aren't talking about different things, when it comes to restriction - I'm referring to the flow restriction caused buy whats inside the housing of the EGR pipe
The throttle flap is a necessary minor obstacle
I wouldn't try and remove that .... your cars behaviour will be erratic to say the least with that gone !?
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      06-16-2012, 10:14 AM   #53
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Sounds interesting, has anyone else tried the EGR blocker yet?
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      06-16-2012, 11:08 AM   #54
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you might find the PDF interesting. Pierburg supplies the bits to BMW. The throttle valve closes partially to kill boost pressure in order to obtain high EGR rates. I guess in part load, where you run most of the time, the throttle valve is the larger restriction. My engine comes out of the EGR mode at 2400 rpm in 6th. (see the typical maps on page 4)

I can tell you:
- The moment you disconnect the throttle valve / butterfly connector, the yellow light wil be on
- Do what I did, remove the valve plate (far from easy, those two tiny bolts (picture 12 in attachment) are loctite'd in for life for good reasons..). That will result in a hidden fault within a few hundred miles do to the MAF crosscheck. But you can clear with a BT tool. The fact the MAF picks up a failure of it, indicates it can close some.
- warm up times without it are longer, and coolant temps will drop at idle, as it effectively diasables most of the EGR flow. Instead, in winter, it pulls (too) much more cold air thru the engine with noticable colder running (if you can see coolant temp).
- engine will stop upon turn off like an old shaking diesel. Any capable BMW mechanic will notice immediately something is wrong. The throtttle is also closed to create a vacuum while turning off the engine, resulting in a soft stop. But more importantly that soft stop ensures it will stop in more random locations than the 3 fixed ones on a 6cyl, important to avoid too fast wear in those spots with the auto stop/start system
- you need significant pressure on the exhaust side to push the gasses thru the EGR valve, cooler, and piping with all the bends etc, to flow into the boost pressure. I think that valve is working quite a bit to allow flow..

cheers,
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      06-16-2012, 11:14 AM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NotNormal View Post
the throttle butterfly shouldn't restrict anything, it should move freely and adjust itself according to what the ECU tells it too

I'm not sure if we aren't talking about different things, when it comes to restriction - I'm referring to the flow restriction caused buy whats inside the housing of the EGR pipe
The throttle flap is a necessary minor obstacle
I wouldn't try and remove that .... your cars behaviour will be erratic to say the least with that gone !?
we are talking about the same restriction (in the original egr ) but when I put the egr bypass part onto the car the ecu (for what ever reason) wants to turn the butterfly (when on tickover) to a very restricted angle staving the engine of air hence the idea to remove it.

Having read about this on other forums it does this to help the air flow from the exhaust gasses (they are no longer there as the exhaust part is now blocked off) regeneration for a DPF and also to help stop the engine once shut down so it doesnt shudder to a halt.

With the standard egr setup my car knows instantly when the vaccum pipe is removed (some people report no changes when doing this) & then if I block the pipe off with a screw knows it isnt connected to the egr so its not being fooled there. Anything I try makes the butterfly valve want to move towards a partially closed position at tickover. Revving it realeases the butterfly to fully open but at tickover the butterfly closes up restricting airflow creating a negative resposne that as someone said could be sucking up oil past the rings.

I just thought that removing the butterfly would stop any air restrictions ( air restrictions as in not being moved towards a closed position by the ecu) at tickover so the egr bypass could be fitted.

Even with the egr bypass fitted and the vacuum pipe attached to the original egr valve the car isnt fooled & restrics air flow through the butterfly.

hope this makes sense
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      06-16-2012, 11:21 AM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F104 View Post
you might find the PDF interesting. Pierburg supplies the bits to BMW. The throttle valve closes partially to kill boost pressure in order to obtain high EGR rates. I guess in part load, where you run most of the time, the throttle valve is the larger restriction. My engine comes out of the EGR mode at 2400 rpm in 6th. (see the typical maps on page 4)

I can tell you:
- The moment you disconnect the throttle valve / butterfly connector, the yellow light wil be on
- Do what I did, remove the valve plate (far from easy, those two tiny bolts (picture 12 in attachment) are loctite'd in for life for good reasons..). That will result in a hidden fault within a few hundred miles do to the MAF crosscheck. But you can clear with a BT tool. The fact the MAF picks up a failure of it, indicates it can close some.
- warm up times without it are longer, and coolant temps will drop at idle, as it effectively diasables most of the EGR flow. Instead, in winter, it pulls (too) much more cold air thru the engine with noticable colder running (if you can see coolant temp).
- engine will stop upon turn off like an old shaking diesel. Any capable BMW mechanic will notice immediately something is wrong. The throtttle is also closed to create a vacuum while turning off the engine, resulting in a soft stop. But more importantly that soft stop ensures it will stop in more random locations than the 3 fixed ones on a 6cyl, important to avoid too fast wear in those spots with the auto stop/start system
- you need significant pressure on the exhaust side to push the gasses thru the EGR valve, cooler, and piping with all the bends etc, to flow into the boost pressure. I think that valve is working quite a bit to allow flow..

cheers,
cheers....


I was thinking of removing the 2 screws & taking plate out.
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      06-16-2012, 12:26 PM   #57
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Jimmylad, EGR is 100% disabled during DPF regen. That's to avoid the unburned fuel in the exhaust gasses (for the regen), also go back into the intake. Valve might be partially closed, seems to make sense to limit air flow to get temperatures up

Are you are looking at the throttle movement with the boost pipe removed? I really don't know what the impact is, but most engine managment system use the MAF sensor info at low load, and than switch to boost and intake temp sensors at higher loads. The MAF flow will be wrong with disconnected boost pipe. If I had to guess I would say MAF flow will be higher as it's unrestricted, and maybe that is why it tries excessive corrections thru closure of the throttle
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      06-28-2012, 04:10 AM   #58
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Hello,
i have e90 330d 2007. I am thinking about the egr bypass from ebay. But I am affraid that the senzor will recognize the unplug egr , right? or not?

Coz sometimes the error light - increased emission showed up...so i wann get rid of it... on diagnostic it says that is the egr valve.
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      06-28-2012, 08:15 AM   #59
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Well, 3500+ miles and counting,no EGR issues, and only positive things to report (see previous post)

If you post a picture of your EGR setup i will tell you if its the same and if it's likely to flag up your EML

Regards

Tom
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      06-29-2012, 01:29 AM   #60
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its not best photo...


but i dont understand how is it possible that the ecu would not recognize that bypass. Coz there are some senzors measures that smoke comming to the engine.... if there is any...it will raise the error - increased emissions, right?
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      06-29-2012, 02:03 AM   #61
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Your EGR setup looks the same as mine from that picture,you should be fine running an EGR removal pipe

Tom
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      06-29-2012, 03:06 AM   #62
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yeah. i dont think that there will be problem with replace...but i dont understand how to bypass the emission error. when the egr senzor will recognize that there is no smoke comming to the engine....
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      06-29-2012, 04:04 AM   #63
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This is my point, you should get an engine management light or emissions light !

The setup we have on our cars doesn't have a sensor that checks the exhaust gas content, and if it you plumb up the vacuum pipe correctly then there will be resistance in the vacuum operation so the ecu doesn't flag an issue

I hope this explains it better

Tom
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      06-29-2012, 05:08 AM   #64
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ouuu. i think i see now. so if i will do correct installation , everything will be ok. . I thought that the sensor measure the content of the air...not the vacuum.

so thanks, i guess i will order one to mine car
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      06-29-2012, 10:58 AM   #65
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So long as both the exhaust gass feed is completely blocked and the vacuum pipe feed is also completely blocked your car should be fine

Tom
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      10-17-2012, 12:39 AM   #66
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2008 bmw e91  [0.00]
Help with egr delete

This is what I have e91 330d see pic I want an egr delete kit and ecu has had egr removed from it to stop warning light coming on when I had dpf removed and remapped by ecotune Scotland could someone advise on which kit I would need and full instructions on fitting
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