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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N55 Turbo Engine Tuning and Exhaust Modifications - 335i Tuning > n55 custom tuning thread



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      06-09-2012, 12:38 PM   #45
boostd92
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I'm very skeptical that an upgraded FMIC can keep IAT's below the point that Procede's start pulling boost (122F?) with any amount of street driving. If the car has been idling in traffic, even FMIC's will heat soak. I'm skeptical of dynos that show otherwise as the car can sit and cool down before the run which is a different situation than a car that has been driving for 10-15 minutes to warm up and heat soaking all the while.

E85 doesn't help that. I run E85 on stock FMIC and my IAT's were through the roof (170F at the end of a dragstrip pass). E85 gives you a hint of extra torque (higher oxygen content) and excellent knock suppression, but doesn't have any real effect on IATs.

Meth/water injection may possibly be the only real solution for IAT's besides an water-to-air intercooler setup and those are pricey and complicated.
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      06-09-2012, 12:55 PM   #46
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I've been there my man, the stock ic is shit. I ran meth on my stock car and even then it was hard to get my iat in check. After the down pipe and ic it all went away. My iat are in check all the time now. Those logs on the previous page were in 82f humid air temps. There are just a lot of factors to think about... It's not just the thought that the ic can exchange heat faster, but look at how well it flows too. All of these add to the efficiency and nothing but an upgraded ic will help you out there. I feel that I decreased the effort that my car has to use to keep my boost high and temps low by optimizing the airflow from the intake to the exhaust ...
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      06-09-2012, 02:50 PM   #47
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I will hopefully be able to validate some of those things you said. I think the stock cat is helping heat things up when running above 14psi and I will definitely throw a catless downpipe on there as my next mod and head back to the strip to log. It will certainly be hotter out by that time I was seeing 70C/160F at 16.3psi on a intake/exhaust/tune car.

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I ran meth on my stock car and even then it was hard to get my iat in check
I wish we had consistant reviews of that. There are lots of reviewers (Kalud included) that run the stock IC and have ambient or lower IAT's with the stock IC/meth. Strange.
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      06-09-2012, 03:13 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by boostd92
I will hopefully be able to validate some of those things you said. I think the stock cat is helping heat things up when running above 14psi and I will definitely throw a catless downpipe on there as my next mod and head back to the strip to log. It will certainly be hotter out by that time I was seeing 70C/160F at 16.3psi on a intake/exhaust/tune car.

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I ran meth on my stock car and even then it was hard to get my iat in check
I wish we had consistant reviews of that. There are lots of reviewers (Kalud included) that run the stock IC and have ambient or lower IAT's with the stock IC/meth. Strange.
For sure, don't take my word for it. Remember, my car is an AT and Kalud has a manual. My car does not loose 1psi during shifts where the manual does a little bit. I kept my pedal floored through 4 gears and it was pretty bad on my stock car with meth. The cats didn't help either which is why I upgraded all at once the last time. Usually I just swapped the dp to get inspections done.
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      06-13-2012, 10:27 AM   #49
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Logs from last night

I took some logs while doing some pulls on a closed road. It was about 68F outside, I had approximately half of tank of 33% E85 mix (originally filled 5gal E85, 10gal 92). I have BMS intake, Vanguard V2 exhaust, Procede rev3, stock FMIC, stock downpipe.

Sorry about the huge pics... I don't have any good image editing software so when I tried to shrink them, they became really hard to read.

First pull was a simple 3rd gear pull. Timing seems good, IATs aren't terrible:




Next I did a 2nd-3rd gear pull. The wheels spun around 4800-5000rpm and you can see the throttle dip. I'm not sure if I had DSC off. 3rd gear IAT's started to climb a bit to 130F. My timing is lower than usual in 3rd at 4 degrees instead of the normal 8-10. Autotune is not correcting ignition at this point. I'm curious if afr or iat correction is pulling boost or what else might be going on. Perhaps the DME is pulling timing on it's own due to higher IATs...




Next is a 3rd gear pull that I did on the same log as the 2-3rd above but after driving a bit and cooling off. Seems like everything went back to normal. My timing is back up (not all the way, but decent) and the IAT's never get above 120F-ish.





Any comments, suggestions, etc are appreciated!
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      06-13-2012, 11:18 AM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boostd92 View Post
I took some logs while doing some pulls on a closed road. It was about 68F outside, I had approximately half of tank of 33% E85 mix (originally filled 5gal E85, 10gal 92). I have BMS intake, Vanguard V2 exhaust, Procede rev3, stock FMIC, stock downpipe.

Any comments, suggestions, etc are appreciated!
Here are my comments:

Overall you might want to reduce the Aggression Target to 1 instead of the default 2, or leave this as-is. Its not overly aggressive, just a bit on the knock threshold. If it was my car I would have a downpipe for that kind of boost and octane, but I am confident you can drive this all day long without issue. Just don't do pulls after pulls without cooldown because IAT will get insanely hot and you'll knock quite a bit more. DME will protect your engine but you'll will get poor performances.

DD this with occasional bursts like everyone do is certainly fine as-is. Keep in mind that its too aggressive for 2-3-4-5 gears full pulls (which you probably never do). You would get insane IAT+knock on that boost level + stock downpipe in 5th gear.

Boost control is awesome, right on target. AFR is fine too, keep in mind two things, E85 afr can be slightly leaner AND the n55 stock runs leaner than the n54 without changing the knock threshold. Its 14ish in low end to 12.x in the upper end. Also those maps are designed for regular gas not ethanol mix.

You are also getting a mixture adaptation control hidden code (no ses light, code 11200). Try reseting the octane adaptation. Don't forget that you are really doing some nice octane swings from plain 91 octane to E85 and that the DME is not expecting E85 to be burned so I guess its normal to get some of those codes. I expect Vishnu to take care of those (and maybe more) with the eventual E85 FlexFuel maps.

Comments on charts:

3rd gear pull


Multigear pull part A


Multigear pull part B
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      06-19-2012, 01:01 PM   #51
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My downpipe will be here on Thursday so hopefully this weekend I'll have some new logs with that installed. I'd really like to see if getting rid of the cat will change IAT's, simply because the turbine section (and therefore the compressor inlet) won't get as hot from the backpressure/heat.

I've turned my boost down to 14psi (doesn't spin the tires from a roll in 2nd anymore like it used to at 16psi..... ) and reset my autotuning for that map. I'll do some logs tonight and post them up (still on stock cat). It's crazy hot here though, even at night it will likely be 80 degrees.
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      06-19-2012, 01:07 PM   #52
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I didn't even spin tires until i had on downpipes lol. What kind of tires are you on? Now at my power levels i cant keep the car straight from a second gear roll.. Are you 6at or 6mt?
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      06-19-2012, 01:17 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by boostd92 View Post
My downpipe will be here on Thursday so hopefully this weekend I'll have some new logs with that installed. I'd really like to see if getting rid of the cat will change IAT's, simply because the turbine section (and therefore the compressor inlet) won't get as hot from the backpressure/heat.

I've turned my boost down to 14psi (doesn't spin the tires from a roll in 2nd anymore like it used to at 16psi..... ) and reset my autotuning for that map. I'll do some logs tonight and post them up (still on stock cat). It's crazy hot here though, even at night it will likely be 80 degrees.
Yeah I think getting rid of those cats will greatly help your IAT as well. I'd like to see the logs on that as well when you get a chance to get out there. Is that the only change you are going to make from the log Kalud commented on if you put your boost set point back to 16psi?
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      06-19-2012, 08:02 PM   #54
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Looks like I'll go hit the 1/4 mile tomorrow for the first time... Also looks to be 90deg and humid! Damn it! It will really test the iat with meth and ic. I'll have to log all runs.
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      06-19-2012, 08:54 PM   #55
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Looks like I'll go hit the 1/4 mile tomorrow for the first time... Also looks to be 90deg and humid! Damn it! It will really test the iat with meth and ic. I'll have to log all runs.
I really can't wait to see how you do!
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      06-20-2012, 05:45 AM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sloppy View Post
Yeah I think getting rid of those cats will greatly help your IAT as well. I'd like to see the logs on that as well when you get a chance to get out there. Is that the only change you are going to make from the log Kalud commented on if you put your boost set point back to 16psi?
Yes, the only change will be backing boost down to 14psi (well that and the weather... it was 68F on the last log I posted, it was 83F last night when I logged). I still need to review them, but I'll post up sometime today.

FWIW, I had my father in the car (who has a bone stock N54 335xi) on father's day and was going to show-off the power and even with him in the car (175lbs?), it spun the tires in 2nd from a 30mph roll-on. I'm running 275/30/19 Nitto Invos. They are pretty warn, but not bald. Was able to pull a 1.9 sixty on them at the track the week before.
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      06-20-2012, 08:33 AM   #57
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I really can't wait to see how you do!
Thanks man, i'm really not hoping for the best time just yet... learning to launch would be key for me and the temps would just be unfavorable for any good time. I'm just hoping to be close to low 13's high 12's. my e90 is pretty heavy too so I wont expect too much out of it
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      06-20-2012, 10:37 AM   #58
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Logged a few sprints last night... 83F, intake, exhaust, 33% E85. Kinda confused about what autotune ignition is trying to do. Doesn't look like it's having any effect on real ignition advance...

This one is 3rd gear after a 2-3 pull. Spun a bit in 2nd after hitting a bump, curious if that's why my AFR's in 3rd are so low, autotune is trying to retardt timing..



Rolled the throttle on a bit for this 3rd gear only pull.. AFR's are strangely lean, and autotune ignition is again trying to decrease timing, not sure why... IAT's are nice and low, no knock as far as I can tell...



This one I stabbed 3rd at 4,000 rpm or so... was a last minute pull. IAT's got a little high but not terrible, AFR's seemed decent, but autotune ignition is REALLY trying to retard timing... confusing..
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      06-20-2012, 06:33 PM   #59
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12.88 @ 108 is my best so far
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      06-20-2012, 07:04 PM   #60
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12.88 @ 108 is my best so far
not bad!
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      06-20-2012, 08:17 PM   #61
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Make that 12.77 @ 109.1 ... Saved the best run for last... My 13th run of the night @ 90+ deg F
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      06-20-2012, 08:20 PM   #62
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Make that 12.77 @ 109.1 ... Saved the best run for last... My 13th run of the night @ 90+ deg F
thats not bad at all!! That trap speed at 90+ degree weather for an xi!
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      06-20-2012, 08:30 PM   #63
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Yeah that's with just regular 93 octane and 60 meth / 40 water mix. I'll put logs up later I think you guys are going to fall off your chairs when you see how much my iat dropped 54C to 33C mid track ... The temps that really hurt me was the tranny oil temp. It did not want to shift at the point I know is optimal because I think my tranny was just overheating... It's not only an xi, but an auto too ... Not a whole lot going for me other than my upgrades
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      06-21-2012, 10:20 AM   #64
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Here's a log of my last run... the 13th of the night pretty much back to back as it wasn't very busy.

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      08-29-2012, 12:02 AM   #65
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^^ I'm jealous of your advance... I'm going to have to bite the bullet on meth, I think.. was at the track tonight with stock fmic, catless dp, e85/procede and 16psi and ran a best of 12.84@110mph. My IAT's are still in the 130F-160F by the end of 4th and I get virtually ZERO timing in 4th... maybe 2-4 degrees in 3rd... feels like a small parachute got deployed!

If I could get 10 degrees of timing with nothing else changed (maybe a 1.8 sixty) I could be sub 12.5.
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      08-29-2012, 04:23 PM   #66
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^^ I'm jealous of your advance... I'm going to have to bite the bullet on meth, I think.. was at the track tonight with stock fmic, catless dp, e85/procede and 16psi and ran a best of 12.84@110mph. My IAT's are still in the 130F-160F by the end of 4th and I get virtually ZERO timing in 4th... maybe 2-4 degrees in 3rd... feels like a small parachute got deployed!

If I could get 10 degrees of timing with nothing else changed (maybe a 1.8 sixty) I could be sub 12.5.
That's not bad at all. Did you take any logs? What was the temp outside? I feel the ic helped a lot as well as the charge pipe from an airflow's perspective let alone the cooling effect. Maybe consider those two before going with meth? E85 is a beast that I'd consider trying next with meth when it gets cooler out here.
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