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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > Wagner Tuning FMIC Review (w/ Pics!)



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      04-29-2012, 04:35 PM   #45
rmw04c
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Yeah it is strikingly similar. This install is SUPER easy JamJay. As I said if you have 2 people it will take you 45 minutes on a lift from start to finish.
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      04-29-2012, 09:20 PM   #46
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In before the production changes to Cali. Pulled the trigger today. I know some of these production change overs can be uneven.
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      04-29-2012, 09:31 PM   #47
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Good deal man take some pics let me know how it goes!
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      04-29-2012, 09:41 PM   #48
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Good deal man take some pics let me know how it goes!
Will do
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      04-30-2012, 06:12 AM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rmw04c View Post
Yeah it is strikingly similar. This install is SUPER easy JamJay. As I said if you have 2 people it will take you 45 minutes on a lift from start to finish.
Thanks & thanks for giving this intercooler some publicity. We're pretty new to N54 tuning in the UK still, we all want to do it but the products just aren't here in the quantities you have them over there. Despite Wagner being German, it's had no publicity in the UK/the UK side of this forum but they now have a UK vendor who I've been in touch with. I've suggested a group buy, they can only say no after all but it's worth a shot.
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      04-30-2012, 06:33 AM   #50
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Yeah even if they don't do a GB, its a very reasonable price for the quality you're getting. Glad you found it useful!
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      04-30-2012, 09:16 AM   #51
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Just so you all know, the Wagner FMIC, while certainly "paying homage" to the Helix IC is limited by one very significant bottleneck. Using the factory coupler restricts the charge air path. Whether the plug-n-play install is justification enough to offset the air-flow restrictions is entirely up to you as a consumer. For me, this is a deal-breaker. There is no building code for aftermarket intercoolers, but this would be a code violation in a plumbing drain- you never reduce the flow along the exit path. At the very least if you choose the Wanger you might want to think about a coupler retrofit to open up the charge air path, but then again, that would pretty much be the Helix IC wouldn't it?

I have no idea about the possibility of a group buy from Helix but it might be worth a shot. Also, Helix is a sponsor of e90post, which is more than you can say for Wagner...
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      04-30-2012, 09:36 AM   #52
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This conversation has been beat to death in 20 different threads. I think everyone's aware of the fact that the stock piping is restrictive and disruptive to airflow.

For those still under warranty who are modding and want the added benefits of an aftermarket FMIC with ZERO modification to install, the Wagner and HPF are the only options.

That being said, my logs speak for themselves, and while the issues you're discussing are a factor in IC/plumbing design and could be debated (albeit in another thread) ad nauseum, those effects are fairly negligible here, and wouldn't really affect those who are still under warranty, who more than likely, aren't pushing their cars past 450whp anyway, where you'd start looking into streamlining the airflow to support greater power.
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      04-30-2012, 09:57 AM   #53
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How is the larger Wagner FMIC (the one with the silicone pipe) performing compared to the HELIX one?
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      04-30-2012, 11:21 AM   #54
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Here we go again talking about a HP or two from the connectors.
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      04-30-2012, 11:23 AM   #55
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Quote:
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Here we go again talking about a HP or two from the connectors.
You say "connector". I say bottleneck. I'll go with the physics on this one.
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      04-30-2012, 04:43 PM   #56
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How is the larger Wagner FMIC (the one with the silicone pipe) performing compared to the HELIX one?
I haven't tested this one so I don't know...but considering that this one is performing on par with the other ones, I'd imagine that its probably comparable to the Helix, considering they've changed the plumbing, as well.


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You say "connector". I say bottleneck. I'll go with the physics on this one.
The point is that for 90% of the people on this board, the 5hp they're going to gain by going with better piping isn't really necessary for them.

You have to separate yourself from the "I need every hp I can get" mentality and realize that the product itself is a long-awaited solution for those who want a stepped-core intercooler that performs on par with the rest of the aftermarket ones out there, and still retains the stock couplers. That alone is worth it to a lot of people here.
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      04-30-2012, 05:57 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rmw04c View Post
I haven't tested this one so I don't know...but considering that this one is performing on par with the other ones, I'd imagine that its probably comparable to the Helix, considering they've changed the plumbing, as well.




The point is that for 90% of the people on this board, the 5hp they're going to gain by going with better piping isn't really necessary for them.

You have to separate yourself from the "I need every hp I can get" mentality and realize that the product itself is a long-awaited solution for those who want a stepped-core intercooler that performs on par with the rest of the aftermarket ones out there, and still retains the stock couplers. That alone is worth it to a lot of people here.
Do you have test results that show the 5 hp difference? If not, I'm still going to err on the side of science on this issue, and I think it would drive me crazy knowing there was a weak spot in my system. The fact that Helix is an e90post board sponsor has a certain amount of value to me as well. And the fact that the Wagner is a knock-off doesn't really sit right with me either.
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      04-30-2012, 08:23 PM   #58
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Quote:
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Do you have test results that show the 5 hp difference? If not, I'm still going to err on the side of science on this issue, and I think it would drive me crazy knowing there was a weak spot in my system. The fact that Helix is an e90post board sponsor has a certain amount of value to me as well. And the fact that the Wagner is a knock-off doesn't really sit right with me either.
No, do you? Lets compare dyno-proven results: HPF vs. Helix. Can you tell me Helix is going to make freakishly more hp than an HPF? No. You can't. And the fact that there are, oh, 3 people on this board that have the Wagner, I doubt you have enough experience with it to really say that it will/won't perform based on what you've seen here. When I get this one dyno'd, we'll see. Until then, I'm not entertaining the FMIC vs. FMIC argument in this thread anymore, as it is for a review of the Wagner, and that's it.

Thanks.
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      04-30-2012, 09:59 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rmw04c View Post
No, do you? Lets compare dyno-proven results: HPF vs. Helix. Can you tell me Helix is going to make freakishly more hp than an HPF? No. You can't. And the fact that there are, oh, 3 people on this board that have the Wagner, I doubt you have enough experience with it to really say that it will/won't perform based on what you've seen here. When I get this one dyno'd, we'll see. Until then, I'm not entertaining the FMIC vs. FMIC argument in this thread anymore, as it is for a review of the Wagner, and that's it.

Thanks.
+1 - I'm tired of the sales propaganda with no evidence to back up the claims. I think if the factory couplers were as significant of a "bottle neck" as everyone claims, we would have seen it by now with all of the dynos that are out there with cars that are running the HPF unit. No one is arguing the fact that larger couplers will flow more (just like no one would argue that a 4" exhaust will flow more than a 2" exhaust), the real question is whether going to a larger coupler will result in any noticeable power difference at the horsepower levels that most people on these boards are at (300-400whp). If someone can show me data that proves there is a significant difference in power between an intercooler with the stock couplers and an intercooler with the silicone couplers, I will be the first in line to hop off the "factory coupler" bandwagon.
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      04-30-2012, 10:02 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rmw04c View Post
This conversation has been beat to death in 20 different threads. I think everyone's aware of the fact that the stock piping is restrictive and disruptive to airflow.

For those still under warranty who are modding and want the added benefits of an aftermarket FMIC with ZERO modification to install, the Wagner and HPF are the only options.

That being said, my logs speak for themselves, and while the issues you're discussing are a factor in IC/plumbing design and could be debated (albeit in another thread) ad nauseum, those effects are fairly negligible here, and wouldn't really affect those who are still under warranty, who more than likely, aren't pushing their cars past 450whp anyway, where you'd start looking into streamlining the airflow to support greater power.
RPI is another option that uses factory plumbing.
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      05-01-2012, 06:07 AM   #61
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The factory couplers are also there for crash consideration.
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      05-01-2012, 06:19 AM   #62
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And they are lightly scented with vanilla-mint and cinnamon.
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      05-01-2012, 06:52 AM   #63
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Competition, the best factor in making parts more affordable.
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      05-01-2012, 08:09 AM   #64
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This argument is like buying a Prius and then saying that the fact that it is a hybrid is a performance bottleneck. You bought it because it was a niche product, for the exact niche that it accomplishes. If there was no niche, there would be no product. And for those who want it, it performs just fine.
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      05-01-2012, 02:14 PM   #65
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Very good intercooler !
Wagner is my next powerstep
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      05-01-2012, 06:24 PM   #66
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So I received my wagner intercooler today and immediately installed it. Beside having a bag of sand poured on my face when I took out my stock intercooler, it went pretty smooth. rmw04c Thanks for the tips.
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