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      04-24-2012, 10:20 AM   #45
Doyle
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Originally Posted by wanlong View Post
I talked to Harold, he said the max drop on koni+swift front is 1.25" including trimming bump stop because the strut has very limited compression travel. Other than the drop, koni+swift really is the best deal out there

Doyle how much drop did you have on the front? I believe TCK also uses koni front xi strut?
I didn't take before/after measurements, since "drop" isn't my main focus. However, I am probably about .25-.5" lower than the zhp e92 that parks next to me.

It isn't on its nuts, but I occaisionally scrape over tall speedbumps. I am probably at the lowest limit.

I'll get out and take some pics later.
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      04-24-2012, 10:37 AM   #46
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Yeah, I would advise getting them.
If I'm going to be using this as my DD and essentially do some spirited driving do you think the ride quality would be drastically different? With dropping $2k on coils I'm not sure if I want to drop more on camber plates.
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      04-24-2012, 02:05 PM   #47
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If I'm going to be using this as my DD and essentially do some spirited driving do you think the ride quality would be drastically different? With dropping $2k on coils I'm not sure if I want to drop more on camber plates.
I have noticed zero degradation in ride quality.

If it isn't in your budget, don't get them. You can always get them later.
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      04-25-2012, 07:46 AM   #48
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Here is my car. Sorry for the crappy iphone pics.
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      04-25-2012, 10:02 AM   #49
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Here is my car. Sorry for the crappy iphone pics.
hey doyle - I was reading the "end all suspension" thread last night and was wondering if you can explain in layman's terms what the camber plate is for - since i might track my car I wanted to know what that was all about.
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      04-25-2012, 10:31 AM   #50
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H&R coils street performance.
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      04-25-2012, 12:27 PM   #51
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hey doyle - I was reading the "end all suspension" thread last night and was wondering if you can explain in layman's terms what the camber plate is for - since i might track my car I wanted to know what that was all about.
Sure. Basically, what a camber plate does is allow for a greater range of adjustment for static camber. Static camber means when the car is sitting still. Obviously, dynamic camber describes what happens when the car is cornering.

The e90 has a MacPherson strut style front suspension. The nature of this type is to gain positive camber through part of the wheel's travel. Below is an extreme example of this. Notice the loaded wheel (front passenger) has the top angled outward.



Below is what you want to see. The wheel is perfectly perpindicular to the ground at the point of greatest weight transfer.



If you don't adjust for this, you end up rolling over onto the outside of your tires, and minimizing your contact patch. Since chassis balance is all about grip, a small contact patch means lower grip. Lower front end grip means more understeer. This is especially important for our cars (x-drive).

One of the easiest ways to fix this issue of dynamic positive camber gain, is to have a fairly large amount of static negative camber. This way, as the car loads up the front outside wheel, the wheel naturally drifts into it's optimum contact patch.

Hopefully, that makes sense!
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      04-25-2012, 01:37 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doyle View Post
Sure. Basically, what a camber plate does is allow for a greater range of adjustment for static camber. Static camber means when the car is sitting still. Obviously, dynamic camber describes what happens when the car is cornering.

The e90 has a MacPherson strut style front suspension. The nature of this type is to gain positive camber through part of the wheel's travel. Below is an extreme example of this. Notice the loaded wheel (front passenger) has the top angled outward.



Below is what you want to see. The wheel is perfectly perpindicular to the ground at the point of greatest weight transfer.



If you don't adjust for this, you end up rolling over onto the outside of your tires, and minimizing your contact patch. Since chassis balance is all about grip, a small contact patch means lower grip. Lower front end grip means more understeer. This is especially important for our cars (x-drive).

One of the easiest ways to fix this issue of dynamic positive camber gain, is to have a fairly large amount of static negative camber. This way, as the car loads up the front outside wheel, the wheel naturally drifts into it's optimum contact patch.

Hopefully, that makes sense!
sweeeeeeeeeet visuals! so doesn't that create more wear on the outer tread of the tires during normal driving?
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      04-25-2012, 02:18 PM   #53
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^ Yes. THat's why you don't want to go hog wild with negative camber when you get your alignment. -1.5* for a daily driver will be plenty, typically. I like to land between -1 and -1.5*. Going too far past that and you'll have squirrelly handling, uneven tire wear and reduced braking performance (depending on how far you push it.)

If you're a track guy, stiffer bushings, sways, forged rather than stamped front end componants and other less pliable parts will assist in keeping a daily driver level of comfort for spirited driving with an acceptable static camber setting, while having enough stiffness in the system to counter dynamic camber adjustments from the more demanding track use.
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      04-25-2012, 02:35 PM   #54
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sweeeeeeeeeet visuals! so doesn't that create more wear on the outer tread of the tires during normal driving?
It depends. With my -3d I'm getting pretty even wear across the tire. When I was running stock camber, I chewed up the outside edge of my tires. Toe is what really kills tires. Even if I didn't track my car, by the time that the inside edge of my tire is dead, the rest of the tread would be borderline worthless, as well.

As demonstrated by AWD Addict, there is a difference between a book answer and a real life answer. Everything he said is correct...but we are so far away from needing to worry about "too much" negative camber to even begin to think about degraded braking, twitchy handling, or increased tire wear.

With my -3d, my braking is the same, steering has actually improved (due to more front end bite), and my tread wear is actually better than when I was running the stock alignment. BMW's love alot of negative camber up front.

I would consider -2.5d to -3d practical for a street/track setup and -1.5 to -2.5 practical for a street only setup.
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      04-25-2012, 02:43 PM   #55
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^ Yes. THat's why you don't want to go hog wild with negative camber when you get your alignment. -1.5* for a daily driver will be plenty, typically. I like to land between -1 and -1.5*. Going too far past that and you'll have squirrelly handling, uneven tire wear and reduced braking performance (depending on how far you push it.)

If you're a track guy, stiffer bushings, sways, forged rather than stamped front end componants and other less pliable parts will assist in keeping a daily driver level of comfort for spirited driving with an acceptable static camber setting, while having enough stiffness in the system to counter dynamic camber adjustments from the more demanding track use.
i am going to thread jack my own thread just for a second - GO CAPS TONIGHT! (im a bandwagon fan - soooooooo )
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      04-25-2012, 02:47 PM   #56
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^ Yes. THat's why you don't want to go hog wild with negative camber when you get your alignment. -1.5* for a daily driver will be plenty, typically. I like to land between -1 and -1.5*. Going too far past that and you'll have squirrelly handling, uneven tire wear and reduced braking performance (depending on how far you push it.)

If you're a track guy, stiffer bushings, sways, forged rather than stamped front end componants and other less pliable parts will assist in keeping a daily driver level of comfort for spirited driving with an acceptable static camber setting, while having enough stiffness in the system to counter dynamic camber adjustments from the more demanding track use.
also - thanks for the input!
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      04-25-2012, 02:49 PM   #57
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It depends. With my -3d I'm getting pretty even wear across the tire. When I was running stock camber, I chewed up the outside edge of my tires. Toe is what really kills tires. Even if I didn't track my car, by the time that the inside edge of my tire is dead, the rest of the tread would be borderline worthless, as well.

As demonstrated by AWD Addict, there is a difference between a book answer and a real life answer. Everything he said is correct...but we are so far away from needing to worry about "too much" negative camber to even begin to think about degraded braking, twitchy handling, or increased tire wear.

With my -3d, my braking is the same, steering has actually improved (due to more front end bite), and my tread wear is actually better than when I was running the stock alignment. BMW's love alot of negative camber up front.

I would consider -2.5d to -3d practical for a street/track setup and -1.5 to -2.5 practical for a street only setup.
I will prob try -2.5 then when i get mine done - hopefully I can learn how to do it myself at the garage shop I want to join. If the machine is a good one I will let you guys know - might be a cost effective way of tweaking out alignment !
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      04-25-2012, 02:50 PM   #58
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      04-25-2012, 03:00 PM   #59
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I will prob try -2.5 then when i get mine done - hopefully I can learn how to do it myself at the garage shop I want to join. If the machine is a good one I will let you guys know - might be a cost effective way of tweaking out alignment !
http://www.motoiq.com/magazine_artic...ve-camber.aspx

That is a great read (hell, the entire series should be a primer on suspension tuning).

Also, go Bruins.
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      04-25-2012, 03:01 PM   #60
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^^^ Caps can win... so they can lose next round.
that's assuming whatever team you root for wins! unless u are just saying caps never get past the first/second round
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      05-18-2012, 09:33 AM   #61
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bumpity bump
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      05-20-2012, 12:04 AM   #62
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awesme, I just order kw v1....how much lower after settling, and if any about how long? would like to know so I know how much to lower during install thanks

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Im very happy with my KW V1's... The improvement over stock is huge!
There is a lot less body roll in the turns, the nose dive under braking is almost nonexistent and it's definitely planted on bumpy roads & turns now
I like how easy they are to adjust too... I first started out with a subtle drop, but I have since lowered the front and rear another 1/4" and even though I lowered it more from the original install, the ride quality hasn't changed at all.


Here are some pics of the drop before I lowered it a 1/4" more... There is much more adjustability left too, but I can't lower the rear anymore, because the tires already slightly rub if I have the kids in the back seat and I hit a big bump/dip in the road... I guess I should roll the fenders



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      05-20-2012, 03:23 AM   #63
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awesme, I just order kw v1....how much lower after settling, and if any about how long? would like to know so I know how much to lower during install thanks
They'll lower slowly and at a decreasing rate over time. Its like a plane landing. Some people comment that my car looks lower now than it did a year ago but, if anything, its a few millimeters. The KW V3 coilovers have been installed since early 2010 and they've been solid.



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      05-22-2012, 08:46 AM   #64
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I am on KWV1 and I am pretty happy so far. Hard cornering is not an issue even with kwv1... I am on 19s and 275 in the rear, the car feels great.
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      05-22-2012, 10:56 AM   #65
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looking sweet fellas! I might get the eibach pro kit until I know what I want to do but front is just ridiculous right now. I think I can fit three fingers at least in between the fender and the top of my tire...looks like an SUV!
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      05-22-2012, 10:58 AM   #66
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They'll lower slowly and at a decreasing rate over time. Its like a plane landing. Some people comment that my car looks lower now than it did a year ago but, if anything, its a few millimeters. The KW V3 coilovers have been installed since early 2010 and they've been solid.



Willy - the car looks great - just went through your timeline - funny enough the SF71 were on my mind and they do look sweet mounted on the e92....

also on the rear 19x9.5 with 275s is there any tire stretch? I was going to go with a 245F/285R set up with V12s.

Thanks for posting!
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