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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > NA Engine (non-turbo) / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications > Baseline Dyno: Supersprint Headers + Stock Map



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      04-21-2017, 09:26 PM   #1
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Baseline Dyno: Supersprint Headers + Stock Map

Had to submit a dyno sheet for the track season. Rules allow for min weight to avg hp ratio of 14.5. Average hp = (Max hp + Sum of 3 highest data points) / 4. The next 3 highest data points are taken at +/- 500prm from Max hp.

Car: 2007 Z4 3.0si coupe 6mt with 80,000 miles
Hardware: Supersprint headers, 3" exhaust w/ 100 cell high flow cat, stock intake
Software: NONE - I reverted back to stock just to be safe
Dyno: Dynojet with SAE smoothing factor of 5
Environment: 70-75 degrees, 36-44% humidity



With no tune, I put down 235hp/219tq (average as defined above was 226hp). Have to get the car back on scales but my comp weight with driver should be around 3200lbs. From a classing standpoint I couldn't ask for better #'s since my adjusted power to weight ratio after factoring tire size is 14.7. That leaves me enough wiggle room for dyno variances if I ever need to submit a new dyno at the track.
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      04-21-2017, 09:33 PM   #2
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Also let's try to keep this thread from going down the drain, i.e. bickering about Y merge placement, BPC vs AA, etc. For my purpose, the car is exactly how I need it to be as confirmed by my weight to power ratios.
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      04-21-2017, 10:07 PM   #3
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Do you have to use a dynojet dyno?

If you use a Mustang dyno, your numbers will be lower by about 8-10% and you can lose some weight.
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      04-21-2017, 10:11 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by CobraMarty View Post
Do you have to use a dynojet dyno?

If you use a Mustang dyno, your numbers will be lower by about 8-10% and you can lose some weight.
Yea FWD/RWD can only use dynojet. AWD can use Mustang but they still multiply figures by 1.1
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      04-22-2017, 12:43 AM   #5
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Wow those are impressive gains for just headers. So I would guess with a BPC tune and intake you would be pushing north of 250whp!
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      04-22-2017, 08:05 AM   #6
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Wow those are impressive gains for just headers. So I would guess with a BPC tune and intake you would be pushing north of 250whp!
You might be right. I think without a high flow cat and charcoal filter delete I could've gained another 2-3hp. Then throw on some good software and 250whp seems pretty feasible.
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      04-22-2017, 09:02 AM   #7
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Not bad. You could probably do some custom tuning that wouldn't necessarily increase peak power, but increase torque as much as possible, increase drivability, fix the stupid soft limiter, and make it safer with headers (if the AFR is off - these DMEs are fast, it might just be fine).

Since we have valvetronic, it's simple to limit peak power - just reduce the amount the valves open at those points. Basically, you could get a custom tune that still made ~235whp but made more power/torque everywhere else.
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      04-22-2017, 09:19 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by hassmaschine View Post
Not bad. You could probably do some custom tuning that wouldn't necessarily increase peak power, but increase torque as much as possible, increase drivability, fix the stupid soft limiter, and make it safer with headers (if the AFR is off - these DMEs are fast, it might just be fine).

Since we have valvetronic, it's simple to limit peak power - just reduce the amount the valves open at those points. Basically, you could get a custom tune that still made ~235whp but made more power/torque everywhere else.
Thanks I had same exact thoughts. Find someone who can optimize torque curve throughout, address the minor flat spot every n52 has around 4200-4500 and take off the soft limiter. Only issue is I'm not local to any reputable shop and I might have trouble justifying full price for a tune that doesn't add any power lol.
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      04-22-2017, 11:40 AM   #9
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do you plan on getting an ECU tune? keeping the high flow cat or getting rid of it? what does the rest of your exhaust system look like?
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      04-22-2017, 03:05 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by STR8-6IX View Post
do you plan on getting an ECU tune? keeping the high flow cat or getting rid of it? what does the rest of your exhaust system look like?
I already have an AA header tune but dyno time being expensive and all, I didn't want to risk making too much power and have to redyno. First event is in 2 weeks so I have a lot of other things I need to sort out.

I am keeping the high flow cat in. I couldn't stand the odor sitting at each traffic light. Plus I want to be semi-environmentally conscious.

I have a Y merge directly behind headers that leads to a single 3" stainless piping all the way down. Shortly after the Y merge is the hfc followed by a Vibrant resonator in the center. It's finished off with a Magnaflow muffler and dual 3.5" tips. The car is fairly tame but can get a little tiresome after long drives so I may swap the Magnaflow for something even more quiet like the Flowmaster Hushpower. Even coming home from Lime Rock the other week my ears were ringing for few hours.
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      04-22-2017, 03:32 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3002 tii View Post
I already have an AA header tune but dyno time being expensive and all, I didn't want to risk making too much power and have to redyno. First event is in 2 weeks so I have a lot of other things I need to sort out.

I am keeping the high flow cat in. I couldn't stand the odor sitting at each traffic light. Plus I want to be semi-environmentally conscious.

I have a Y merge directly behind headers that leads to a single 3" stainless piping all the way down. Shortly after the Y merge is the hfc followed by a Vibrant resonator in the center. It's finished off with a Magnaflow muffler and dual 3.5" tips. The car is fairly tame but can get a little tiresome after long drives so I may swap the Magnaflow for something even more quiet like the Flowmaster Hushpower. Even coming home from Lime Rock the other week my ears were ringing for few hours.
i wouldnt recommend a borla muffler - not too loud. I currently have a magnaflow muffler and the exhaust note is nice but its too droney at low load and cruising.

so the high flow cat stops the smell?

wouldnt two pipes all the way down to the resonator flow better then one pipe? any benefits in having 1 pipe going to muffler vs 2?

my understanding is that 1 pipe produces better low end at the expense of high end, while 2 pipes to the exit (even if they merge into one after the resonator) is the other way around.

also, I think that the BPC tune is better then AA. is it absolutely necessary for you to go on the dyno everytime you make a change? I wouldnt bother with a dyno because I think fine tuning your setup every step of the way to make it perfect is crucial. everything but the AA tune sounds great though.
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      04-22-2017, 03:55 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by STR8-6IX View Post
i wouldnt recommend a borla muffler - not too loud. I currently have a magnaflow muffler and the exhaust note is nice but its too droney at low load and cruising.

so the high flow cat stops the smell?

wouldnt two pipes all the way down to the resonator flow better then one pipe? any benefits in having 1 pipe going to muffler vs 2?

my understanding is that 1 pipe produces better low end at the expense of high end, while 2 pipes to the exit (even if they merge into one after the resonator) is the other way around.

also, I think that the BPC tune is better then AA. is it absolutely necessary for you to go on the dyno everytime you make a change? I wouldnt bother with a dyno because I think fine tuning your setup every step of the way to make it perfect is crucial. everything but the AA tune sounds great though.
You would or wouldn't recommend a Borla? And yes the high flow cats make a big difference in the smell. It's not entirely removed but I'd say maybe 70-80% is gone.

With respect to exhaust setup and tunes please read my 2nd post. Really want avoid a pissing thread (not insinuating that you're starting one) but it's only a matter of time before the NA trolls jump in. But to answer your question, custom fabrication was the only route for me since my only off-the-shelf option for the Z4 was SS and that was too expensive. So if going custom, I wanted to prioritize simplicity (cost) and weight which was echoed and reaffirmed by reputable race shops and drivers.

No it's not absolutely necessary to get a dyno each time but you can randomly be subject do a dyno submission at any event and if you're weight/power is not in compliance you will get disqualified. And when you factor in variations among dyno hardware, weather conditions, tire pressures, car weight (gas), etc. you need to leave yourself some room for margin of error. But for the beginning of the season I need to submit paperwork stating my current power so you see why I didn't want to have redyno in case I came out too high.

I will say I've seen the BPC vs AA dyno curve and BPC showed more low end torque in the 3k range or so but this car rarely sees anything below 5k on track. And I recall the 2 tunes being similar in that upper rev range so even if BPC could extract more power on top end or increase the redline I wouldn't risk it for the reasons I just mentioned above. To Hass's point though, if i could improve things overall at reasonable cost without adding to peak hp I would consider it. But like every build, there's a cost constraint so I really need to prioritize other work.
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Last edited by 3002 tii; 04-22-2017 at 04:04 PM.
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      04-22-2017, 04:05 PM   #13
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You may as well just ignore that guys posts lol. Unless you want to hear about 5k oil changes, cat deletes and the evils of Mobil 1.

And no, two pipes doesn't neccesarily flow better than one. A single 3" can support over 300hp.
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      04-22-2017, 04:10 PM   #14
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You may as well just ignore that guys posts lol. Unless you want to hear about 5k oil changes, cat deletes and the evils of Mobil 1.

And no, two pipes doesn't neccesarily flow better than one. A single 3" can support over 300hp.
Agreed, before I thought about classing and power limits my goal was to get to 250whp which is about 300 crank. And so far the single 3" with mandrel bends seems to do the job quite well.
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      04-22-2017, 04:20 PM   #15
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Is your car a 2006 or 2007+?
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      04-22-2017, 04:21 PM   #16
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Is your car a 2006 or 2007+?
Feb 2007 build
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      04-22-2017, 07:58 PM   #17
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Quote:
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You would or wouldn't recommend a Borla? And yes the high flow cats make a big difference in the smell. It's not entirely removed but I'd say maybe 70-80% is gone.

With respect to exhaust setup and tunes please read my 2nd post. Really want avoid a pissing thread (not insinuating that you're starting one) but it's only a matter of time before the NA trolls jump in. But to answer your question, custom fabrication was the only route for me since my only off-the-shelf option for the Z4 was SS and that was too expensive. So if going custom, I wanted to prioritize simplicity (cost) and weight which was echoed and reaffirmed by reputable race shops and drivers.

No it's not absolutely necessary to get a dyno each time but you can randomly be subject do a dyno submission at any event and if you're weight/power is not in compliance you will get disqualified. And when you factor in variations among dyno hardware, weather conditions, tire pressures, car weight (gas), etc. you need to leave yourself some room for margin of error. But for the beginning of the season I need to submit paperwork stating my current power so you see why I didn't want to have redyno in case I came out too high.

I will say I've seen the BPC vs AA dyno curve and BPC showed more low end torque in the 3k range or so but this car rarely sees anything below 5k on track. And I recall the 2 tunes being similar in that upper rev range so even if BPC could extract more power on top end or increase the redline I wouldn't risk it for the reasons I just mentioned above. To Hass's point though, if i could improve things overall at reasonable cost without adding to peak hp I would consider it. But like every build, there's a cost constraint so I really need to prioritize other work.
I think borla is great - I would change my muffler from magnaflow to borla in order to keep things a little quieter if I ever went the catless headers route. so your only option when installing headers was to make your own catback? would the OEM exhaust system be too thin (2.25 inch), fitment issues with the headers? What I mainly like about the factory exhaust system is how it uses simplicity to its advantage in order to flow better just like your custom setup. does a resonator delete cause you to lose some power unless you fit an x-pipe? (if you can fit one?) I heard that the general consensus is to always have a res in your setup. I had an interesting conversation with a fellow forum member the other day regarding how to keep underhood/oil temps down and help with aero. he mentioned that the front of the hood behind the radiator was a low pressure area for pushing out air, and that high pressure areas close to the cowl are for an engine intake. anyways, he suggested that a vented hood in a low pressure area would help underhood temps and also allow the radiator to work more efficiently due to the increased airflow. I know the N52 runs rather hot due to the electric water pump so I am sure keeping temps down is a priority. what sort of temps do you see when tracking? I keep the plastic engine cover removed during warmer weather which helps with temps considerably, so I am sure this is essential for the track. if you took all of these measures for track cooling and also coded the water pump to operate harder, do you think an oil cooler would not be necessary and therefore allow space for the front brake rotors to cool? I think the OEM brake parts would be up for track duty if they just had sufficient cooling. I wonder how the N52 holds up to track abuse... I have always been very fascinated to build something a z4/1 series n52 track toy so please excuse all my questions.
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      04-22-2017, 09:28 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by STR8-6IX View Post
I think borla is great - I would change my muffler from magnaflow to borla in order to keep things a little quieter if I ever went the catless headers route. so your only option when installing headers was to make your own catback? would the OEM exhaust system be too thin (2.25 inch), fitment issues with the headers? What I mainly like about the factory exhaust system is how it uses simplicity to its advantage in order to flow better just like your custom setup. does a resonator delete cause you to lose some power unless you fit an x-pipe? (if you can fit one?) I heard that the general consensus is to always have a res in your setup. I had an interesting conversation with a fellow forum member the other day regarding how to keep underhood/oil temps down and help with aero. he mentioned that the front of the hood behind the radiator was a low pressure area for pushing out air, and that high pressure areas close to the cowl are for an engine intake. anyways, he suggested that a vented hood in a low pressure area would help underhood temps and also allow the radiator to work more efficiently due to the increased airflow. I know the N52 runs rather hot due to the electric water pump so I am sure keeping temps down is a priority. what sort of temps do you see when tracking? I keep the plastic engine cover removed during warmer weather which helps with temps considerably, so I am sure this is essential for the track. if you took all of these measures for track cooling and also coded the water pump to operate harder, do you think an oil cooler would not be necessary and therefore allow space for the front brake rotors to cool? I think the OEM brake parts would be up for track duty if they just had sufficient cooling. I wonder how the N52 holds up to track abuse... I have always been very fascinated to build something a z4/1 series n52 track toy so please excuse all my questions.
I honestly can't read this entire thing. You need to incorporate more space bar and enter key action man. But if you're asking how my n52 is holding up to track usage, answer is it's been rock solid reliable. I have no problem with overheating whatsoever. Then again I'm not sure about the 328i but my Z4 came with a factory oil cooler.

The factory brakes are more than up to the task, in fact I SOLD my ST40 kit a while back because I thought the stock calipers with track pads was sufficient. I did however install a 3" brake cooling kit.
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      04-22-2017, 09:36 PM   #19
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Quote:
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I honestly can't read this entire thing. You need to incorporate more space bar and enter key action man. But if you're asking how my n52 is holding up to track usage, answer is it's been rock solid reliable. I have no problem with overheating whatsoever. Then again I'm not sure about the 328i but my Z4 came with a factory oil cooler.

The factory brakes are more than up to the task, in fact I SOLD my ST40 kit a while back because I thought the stock calipers with track pads was sufficient. I did however install a 3" brake cooling kit.
do you think you can keep a reasonable oil temp without an oil cooler? lets say if you have a vented hood to maintain underhood temps and improve radiator flow. also if you remove the plastic engine cover which traps heat.

so generally you want to always have a resonator in your exhaust setup right? do you lose power from no resonator?
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      04-22-2017, 11:14 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by STR8-6IX View Post
do you think you can keep a reasonable oil temp without an oil cooler? lets say if you have a vented hood to maintain underhood temps and improve radiator flow. also if you remove the plastic engine cover which traps heat.

so generally you want to always have a resonator in your exhaust setup right? do you lose power from no resonator?
No clue since I never ran without one. You'd have to look at other tracked N52's without oil coolers to see how they fare on track.

Removing the plastic cover won't do much. And I'd do a lot of research before installing vented hoods. Finding the optimal spot isn't something you just eyeball. If your car can't run 20-30 min sessions without overheating I'd want to address the underlying issue instead of hacking up my hood.

Good quality resonator will have negligible impact on flow. And the drone isn't worth the 1hp you gain without one.
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      Yesterday, 03:10 AM   #21
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Very nice
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      Yesterday, 08:08 PM   #22
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No clue since I never ran without one. You'd have to look at other tracked N52's without oil coolers to see how they fare on track.

Removing the plastic cover won't do much. And I'd do a lot of research before installing vented hoods. Finding the optimal spot isn't something you just eyeball. If your car can't run 20-30 min sessions without overheating I'd want to address the underlying issue instead of hacking up my hood.

Good quality resonator will have negligible impact on flow. And the drone isn't worth the 1hp you gain without one.
what sort of oil temp do you typically see on the track? as for a vented hood, you want to put it in a low pressure area. (low pressure for exhausting air, high pressure areas are for intake of air)

low pressure areas are at the front of the hood right behind the radiator. I think this is the best spot to put a vented hood. high pressure areas are near the cowl which is why stuff like the BMS cowl delete I think is not a good idea. it messes with aerodynamics more then it actually vents out air. anyways, a vent behind the radiator should help underhood temps alot and the radiator will work more efficiently due to the increased airflow.

as for removing the plastic engine cover, it made an almost 50F difference in oil temps for me. I keep it off when ambient weather is 37F or higher (for normal to spirited street driving) and it helps keep temps more or less where it should be. its just out of control in hot weather with the engine cover on, creeping toward 250F just sitting in traffic. Wouldnt hurt to remove it when you go out for a track session.
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