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      08-26-2015, 04:16 PM   #1
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Fuel too rich, New MAF sensor to resolve?

Hi guys. My car has been getting 2a2e and 2a2f codes for as long as I can remember. Long story short, I got my car tested for vacuum leaks at a local dealership (200$ down the tube) and they said they cannot find anything. They said that since it is running RICH and not lean, they said to look at the air filter or MAF sensor. My air filter was some off brand crap so I installed an OEM one i picked up right when I got home. Feels a bit better but still the mixture codes are coming back

Air intake wise, my only mods are the 3 stage manifold and the Rev motoring silicon intake tube. They said the "unauthorized modifications" were most likely the problem but obviously they are trying to pin the blame on something. I have purchased probably 2 additional (but used) MAF sensors from eBay or on here but the problems eventually came back. I suspect the sellers sold me faulty or dirty sensors? I bought a new MAF sensor anyways and before I open it up and spend another 200$ since open=non returnable, does anyone else have other suggestions as to what it could be?

I have heard that it could be a bad DISA seal since it would not say it is the DISA since obviously there are no sensors by the actuators. But the problem was still present before I did the intake manifold swap. Another person has said that it could be the fuel pump? It would make sense because even after all the cleanings and swaps I have done the problem still persists. But I have never had any issues with long cranks or anything of that sort. I am so lost and I sometimes really hate this car

Thanks guys
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      08-26-2015, 06:14 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by BMW.. View Post
Hi guys. My car has been getting 2a2e and 2a2f codes for as long as I can remember. Long story short, I got my car tested for vacuum leaks at a local dealership (200$ down the tube) and they said they cannot find anything. They said that since it is running RICH and not lean, they said to look at the air filter or MAF sensor. My air filter was some off brand crap so I installed an OEM one i picked up right when I got home. Feels a bit better but still the mixture codes are coming back

Air intake wise, my only mods are the 3 stage manifold and the Rev motoring silicon intake tube. They said the "unauthorized modifications" were most likely the problem but obviously they are trying to pin the blame on something. I have purchased probably 2 additional (but used) MAF sensors from eBay or on here but the problems eventually came back. I suspect the sellers sold me faulty or dirty sensors? I bought a new MAF sensor anyways and before I open it up and spend another 200$ since open=non returnable, does anyone else have other suggestions as to what it could be?

I have heard that it could be a bad DISA seal since it would not say it is the DISA since obviously there are no sensors by the actuators. But the problem was still present before I did the intake manifold swap. Another person has said that it could be the fuel pump? It would make sense because even after all the cleanings and swaps I have done the problem still persists. But I have never had any issues with long cranks or anything of that sort. I am so lost and I sometimes really hate this car

Thanks guys
Correct me if I am wrong, but if there is the slightest chance that there is a vacuum leak, chances are you will then most likely have a lean fuel mixture problem, not rich. With regards to the intake mod, are you sure that the correct MAF sensor has been used for your specific car? What about software tune in order to have the intake mod work correctly - haven't really read up too much about the 3 stage mod since I already have it, but surely the software needs to be tweaked in order to make use of the new intake and extra DISA actuator(s). I am not 100% sure of how it can affect the fuelling, but what about the MAP sensor that is mounted to the intake? Have you tried running the car with the MAF sensor unplugged? I wonder if you don't ultimately have an issue with the O2 sensors, but still a strange one.

Check this thread BTW: http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=905209
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      08-26-2015, 07:27 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by Three_thirty_I View Post
Correct me if I am wrong, but if there is the slightest chance that there is a vacuum leak, chances are you will then most likely have a lean fuel mixture problem, not rich. With regards to the intake mod, are you sure that the correct MAF sensor has been used for your specific car? What about software tune in order to have the intake mod work correctly - haven't really read up too much about the 3 stage mod since I already have it, but surely the software needs to be tweaked in order to make use of the new intake and extra DISA actuator(s). I am not 100% sure of how it can affect the fuelling, but what about the MAP sensor that is mounted to the intake? Have you tried running the car with the MAF sensor unplugged? I wonder if you don't ultimately have an issue with the O2 sensors, but still a strange one.

Check this thread BTW: http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=905209
Yep. The dealership told me vaccum leak = running lean not rich. Also yes I have a software tune but even with it not tuned the car should still run normally without issue. I definitely have the right MAF. Runs rough when unplugged, its really weird. When I step on the brake while idle and in park the RPMs start freaking out and I believe after a while it gets normal again. Also, only turbo cars have a MAP sensor. And lastly, wouldn't o2 sensors throw a code for themselves and not running rich?
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      08-26-2015, 09:47 PM   #4
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Yep. The dealership told me vaccum leak = running lean not rich. Also yes I have a software tune but even with it not tuned the car should still run normally without issue. I definitely have the right MAF. Runs rough when unplugged, its really weird. When I step on the brake while idle and in park the RPMs start freaking out and I believe after a while it gets normal again. Also, only turbo cars have a MAP sensor. And lastly, wouldn't o2 sensors throw a code for themselves and not running rich?
I wonder if it is not somehow also related to the vacuum pump which is driven by the engine, since you say it is affected by applying brakes. The N52 does have a MAP (pressure difference sensor) as well, it is mounted on the intake manifold towards the firewall side. Theoretically the O2 sensors should throw a code, and to have both fail at the same time is odd. Usually there would be a fault for lean or rich mixture for that specific bank where the O2 sensor is faulty, or if that is detected. Hopefully some of the cleverer members will have some more ideas.
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      08-26-2015, 10:59 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Three_thirty_I
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Originally Posted by BMW.. View Post
Yep. The dealership told me vaccum leak = running lean not rich. Also yes I have a software tune but even with it not tuned the car should still run normally without issue. I definitely have the right MAF. Runs rough when unplugged, its really weird. When I step on the brake while idle and in park the RPMs start freaking out and I believe after a while it gets normal again. Also, only turbo cars have a MAP sensor. And lastly, wouldn't o2 sensors throw a code for themselves and not running rich?
I wonder if it is not somehow also related to the vacuum pump which is driven by the engine, since you say it is affected by applying brakes. The N52 does have a MAP (pressure difference sensor) as well, it is mounted on the intake manifold towards the firewall side. Theoretically the O2 sensors should throw a code, and to have both fail at the same time is odd. Usually there would be a fault for lean or rich mixture for that specific bank where the O2 sensor is faulty, or if that is detected. Hopefully some of the cleverer members will have some more ideas.
Interesting. So you think it would be worth it to pop In a new MAF tomorrow? Also it is always bank 1 and 2 not one at a time
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      08-27-2015, 09:40 AM   #6
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My Z is doing something very similar.

Initially I was getting multiple codes. Replaced the MAF and now I get just one... But almost two... I'll explain more in a second. Anyway, Indy said same thing as what you're experiencing, running rich which tends to make him think it's not a vacuum leak and he didn't think it was the O2 sensors since the two banks were getting similar readings and it's rare for both to fail at same time. He also said that normally when they fail they will indicate something else besides rich, but I can't remember exactly what he said.

Now here's the part that may interest you. He didn't run a full diagnostic at the time but he did hook it up and read all the running parameters and was able to see that although only one bank was throwing a code the other bank was barely within range and his feeling is that the issue was affecting both banks. So knowing it was new MAF, new OEM filter his thoughts went to fuel delivery just like your guy. He didn't think fuel pump though, his thoughts are the fuel regulator is going bad and allowing higher fuel pressure and therefor the engine is running rich. It may be a single unit for pump, filter and regulator though so ultimately may not matter which of these parts is bad but the point is you may be on the right track with the fuel system.

I haven't replaced mine yet since car has barely been driven the last year so I'll probably get to it this winter time permitted. Really interested in seeing what you find on yours.
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      08-27-2015, 09:49 AM   #7
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I *think* the DME monitors fuel pressure. Not certain on that though. but anyway, it should be 5 bars relative to manifold pressure. a bad regulator could definitely cause it to run too rich. I can't say I've heard of them failing often (usually, the diaphragm fails and they piss gas everywhere), but it should be relatively simple to have a mechanic run a fuel system test.
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      08-27-2015, 10:20 AM   #8
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I would have them test the fuel pressures to rule that out. Also if you have the car on diagnostics again, ask them to check the smooth running parameters - this may pick up any issues in any one or more cylinders if there is an over-correction taking place. If it is out of spec this could be due to faulty a coil pack, a plugs, an injectors, or valves, or compression rings. This is just more out of curiosity than anything else, but you never know.
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      08-27-2015, 10:40 AM   #9
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I know when my Indy checked mine he had it hooked up at the shop running for quite some time and everything was bang on while idling. When he went back and looked at history is when he was able to see what triggered the CEL. He wanted to do a ride along and/or have me leave the car with him but I wasn't able to at the time.
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      08-27-2015, 10:47 AM   #10
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So would it be worth it to try the new MAF sensor? Also when I get back from class I will try to see if I can get to the rough running and EKP tests in INPA. Maybe that will help out. Thanks everyone for your help!
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      08-27-2015, 11:22 AM   #11
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You have already tried a few other MAF sensors though, unless they were both faulty, I wouldn't waste money on another one just yet. Have you tried cleaning one of the ones that you tried? Get some good CRC MAF cleaner and give it a try before considering buying a new MAF.
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      08-27-2015, 11:30 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Three_thirty_I
You have already tried a few other MAF sensors though, unless they were both faulty, I wouldn't waste money on another one just yet. Have you tried cleaning one of the ones that you tried? Get some good CRC MAF cleaner and give it a try before considering buying a new MAF.
Oh yeah lol. Probably 3 cans worth over the past couple of years. And I know one for sure has thrown the 2d06 "air mass flow sensor" error and I want to say the one I am using now has also done the same.
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      08-27-2015, 12:45 PM   #13
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Oh yeah lol. Probably 3 cans worth over the past couple of years. And I know one for sure has thrown the 2d06 "air mass flow sensor" error and I want to say the one I am using now has also done the same.
In that case it might be worthwhile to replace then. Strange though that the engine was not happy when you unplugged the MAF, it is suppose to run in factory mode and while not optimal, should run fine assuming nothing else is wrong.
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      08-27-2015, 04:26 PM   #14
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In that case it might be worthwhile to replace then. Strange though that the engine was not happy when you unplugged the MAF, it is suppose to run in factory mode and while not optimal, should run fine assuming nothing else is wrong.
That is what surprised me the most and is why I have doubt that maybe it isnt the air flow sensor? But regardless if its unplugged then it HAS to go to the default values. There is no reason for it to NOT go to these stable values. My car has always been weird like that. I think it is because it is a 325i using the MSV70 and having a build date in 2005. Who knows
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      08-27-2015, 07:38 PM   #15
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That is what surprised me the most and is why I have doubt that maybe it isnt the air flow sensor? But regardless if its unplugged then it HAS to go to the default values. There is no reason for it to NOT go to these stable values. My car has always been weird like that. I think it is because it is a 325i using the MSV70 and having a build date in 2005. Who knows
Ditto! Mine is also a 2005 using the MSV70, and I suppose like yours, also uses the older coil pack type which was changed from 04/06 back to the type that the older M54 motors used. Annoying since I have two E46's at the moment with M54 motors, so cannot pull their coils to test on my 330i...
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      08-29-2015, 02:07 PM   #16
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Replaced my MAF sensor with a NEW replacement this time. No issues so far even running an aggressive tune that would normally cause 2d09 limp mode
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      08-29-2015, 02:29 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMW..
Replaced my MAF sensor with a NEW replacement this time. No issues so far even running an aggressive tune that would normally cause 2d09 limp mode
Wonder if this is the reason why my car started acting crazy. The interesting thing is I've been running this tune since January with no issues. I had rough idle, ticking, SES, sluggish acceleration this week. Drive it home and the car seemed to adapt to itself, ticking went away. Next day car was fine but still have SES.
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      08-29-2015, 03:21 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim07e90
Quote:
Originally Posted by BMW..
Replaced my MAF sensor with a NEW replacement this time. No issues so far even running an aggressive tune that would normally cause 2d09 limp mode
Wonder if this is the reason why my car started acting crazy. The interesting thing is I've been running this tune since January with no issues. I had rough idle, ticking, SES, sluggish acceleration this week. Drive it home and the car seemed to adapt to itself, ticking went away. Next day car was fine but still have SES.
What codes?
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      08-29-2015, 07:02 PM   #19
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Wow, that's good to hear! It's nice when you replace something and it actually FIXES the problem!
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      08-29-2015, 07:06 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Three_thirty_I
Wow, that's good to hear! It's nice when you replace something and it actually FIXES the problem!
Well sadly I have another update.

Good news: Limp mode still not coming especially when engine felt like it "would" before the new MAF

Bad news: I have a 2a2e code. But no 2a2f so it's only one bank that's rich. I wonder what It could be now but hey I'm happy as long as I don't get limp mode
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      08-29-2015, 07:33 PM   #21
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That's strange!
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      08-30-2015, 01:16 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMW..
Quote:
Originally Posted by Three_thirty_I
Wow, that's good to hear! It's nice when you replace something and it actually FIXES the problem!
Well sadly I have another update.

Good news: Limp mode still not coming especially when engine felt like it "would" before the new MAF

Bad news: I have a 2a2e code. But no 2a2f so it's only one bank that's rich. I wonder what It could be now but hey I'm happy as long as I don't get limp mode
That's how mine is running. Bring it to a shop and have them scan it... Not just for codes but for all of the AF values etc. it could be like my car where only one bank is throwing the code but the other is also rich, just not quite far enough out of spec to throw a code of its own yet.
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