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      05-03-2012, 01:15 PM   #23
zltm089
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      05-04-2012, 05:35 AM   #24
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Took the car down to Darren Woods and it's looking like it's the pcv system not the turbos. Thank fook!!

Booked in next sat to replace the whole pcv system, will report back. Looks like this should be on the maintenance list for anyone north of 70k

H
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      05-06-2012, 01:41 PM   #25
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I am experiencing the exact same issue as you are on my E90 323i. I had the crankcase ventilation valve replaced on it but it still consumes approximately 1/4 litre of oil for every 500km. No signs of leaks that I can see and no smoking when driving.

I have noticed a number of times now some blue smoke on start-up. Weird. I have no oil smells or issues and the car still gets great gas mileage and appears to running very well.
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      05-14-2012, 06:02 AM   #26
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how did you get on with the pcv replacement?

my e91 now has a puff of blue smoke on start up first thing, one puff and then nothing, but very visible
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      05-14-2012, 01:00 PM   #27
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Update:

Had the entire PCV system replaced at the w'end and clearly it's not fixed the issue!!

Still getting a puff of blue/grey smoke on cold start up only and the car is getting through some serious oil, 1/4 litre every 300 miles!!

Unless I'm wrong there are only 2 other possible causes here, valve seals or turbo seals. Problem is the valve seals were replaced around 7k miles ago when the head was rebuilt and if it was turbo seals then I suspect I would get consistent smoke which pretty sure don't.

Is it even possible to get start up smoke only from turbo seals? I suspect there wouldn't be enough heat around the turbos for this to burn off instantly on start up?

Would really appreciate some help on this please guys.

H
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      05-15-2012, 02:20 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 335i E92 View Post
Update:

Had the entire PCV system replaced at the w'end and clearly it's not fixed the issue!!

Still getting a puff of blue/grey smoke on cold start up only and the car is getting through some serious oil, 1/4 litre every 300 miles!!

Unless I'm wrong there are only 2 other possible causes here, valve seals or turbo seals. Problem is the valve seals were replaced around 7k miles ago when the head was rebuilt and if it was turbo seals then I suspect I would get consistent smoke which pretty sure don't.

Is it even possible to get start up smoke only from turbo seals? I suspect there wouldn't be enough heat around the turbos for this to burn off instantly on start up?

Would really appreciate some help on this please guys.

H
As per my post #18. I can't see the smoke being turbo related at start up as the there won't be enough heat.

The valve stem oil seal are part of the valve spring platform, so not really likely to have slipped off the valve guide and be sitting halfway up the valve stem. Which is a common cause of smoke on start-up.

Do you know? Where they replace 7k miles ago with genuine seals? How many months ago was it done. Does the company not offer a warranty for their workmanship?
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      05-15-2012, 04:03 AM   #29
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A puff of smoke is normal on a car with 80k and as well as PCV and turbo issues can be a sign of duff injectors and hpfp. You can chase your tail on this platform and still not find the issue. I would be tempted to wait and see how the problems develop.

My car is stumbling and misfiring at WOT. I have replaced the sparks and coils. Cleaned the vanos and the map sensor all to no avail. Terry (bms) thinks it may be the hpfp, others say injectors - more still carbon buildup.

I'll keep running it until I get a code or something craps out. You really could spend thousands and not get to the root of the problem!!
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      05-15-2012, 08:47 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by creepy coupe View Post
As per my post #18. I can't see the smoke being turbo related at start up as the there won't be enough heat.

The valve stem oil seal are part of the valve spring platform, so not really likely to have slipped off the valve guide and be sitting halfway up the valve stem. Which is a common cause of smoke on start-up.

Do you know? Where they replace 7k miles ago with genuine seals? How many months ago was it done. Does the company not offer a warranty for their workmanship?
Agree about the turbo's as Im not seeing smoke anywhere else other than at start up which as Ive said clears immediately. The head was completely rebuilt by Darren Woods who are one of the most highly regarded BMW Indys in the UK, they would have used genuine BMW parts and I trust their workmanship 100%.

Regarding the oil consumption Im unsure right now if the new PCV system has resolved this issue. I know for sure that I used 1/4 litre in 400 miles the other week, once I noticed the drop on the display (which I check daily) I instantly reset the trip.

When I went into Woods on Sat I was on 290 miles since the last drop on the oil level, within 10 miles of leaving Woods it dropped another bar indicating 1/4 litre had been used within 300 miles. However thinking about it there was probably a good amount of oil in the old PCV which could explain the drop. Anyways, I've done 400 miles since the new PCV and so far its not dropped so the verdict is out at the moment as far as oil consumption goes!!

I am however still seeing smoke on start up which funnily enough since the new PCV is more black/grey than blue/grey. Ive had 3 injectors replaced recently so it's possible I suppose that the other 3 might be crapping out. I've also had the below 3 (shadow) codes since the PCV was replaced at the w'end.

2FCA / 2FDA / 2FDB

Not sure if they are related to the pcv change, doesn't seem to be a lot of info on these codes. Some say its hpfp related and some say its nothing, anyone seen these before?



Quote:
Originally Posted by phil200tdi View Post
A puff of smoke is normal on a car with 80k and as well as PCV and turbo issues can be a sign of duff injectors and hpfp. You can chase your tail on this platform and still not find the issue. I would be tempted to wait and see how the problems develop.

My car is stumbling and misfiring at WOT. I have replaced the sparks and coils. Cleaned the vanos and the map sensor all to no avail. Terry (bms) thinks it may be the hpfp, others say injectors - more still carbon buildup.

I'll keep running it until I get a code or something craps out. You really could spend thousands and not get to the root of the problem!!

Sorry to hear you're having problems also!!

I've already spent 1000's trying to get it to its best which is why its so frustrating when you're constantly one step forward 2 steps back.

I'm crossing my fingers that the oil consumption has been addressed with the change of the PCV and that the now black/grey smoke is just another failing injector or hpfp issue.

I do find it really odd though that now the PCV has been replaced Im seeing black/grey smoke instead of blue/grey. Just another helpful swerve ball from the Enigma that is the N54!!
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      05-15-2012, 09:19 AM   #31
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Has anyone carried out a compression check?
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      05-15-2012, 11:21 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by creepy coupe View Post
Has anyone carried out a compression check?
Nope...

But it's a sensible next move for sure if my oil consumtion persist at this rate, hoping not to see it move for a little while!!

Any idea on the codes i got?
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      05-15-2012, 02:37 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 335i E92

Any idea on the codes i got?
Sounds like opinion is divided - it could be the hpfp.

http://www.n54tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8301

Have you replaced yours recently? I may be doing mine soon too but will get the valves cleaned at the same time - £700 bill

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      05-15-2012, 03:52 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 335i E92 View Post
Any idea on the codes i got?
For 2FDA & 2FCA see my post here....
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...5#post11525815

Unfortunately I'm still getting them with my new HPFP, so I'm ignoring it for now. The car seems to run fine.

I find that INPA give a lot more detail than BT and resolve a number of errors that BT don't show anything for.
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      05-15-2012, 04:41 PM   #35
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Thanks guys, both links made interesting reading!!

Especially when you consider that I'm still on my original pump on a 56 plate at 80k and asking it to deliver Evolve stage 2 fuel pressures.

Maybe this is my fix, oil loss aside (which I'm hoping is now fixed) the fuel pump might just be the obvious answer. Pretty sure they're only £250 and are an easy install!!

I've also been getting the 2AAF (fuel pump plausibility) code for months, although a lot say that is to be ignored and isn't hpfp related.

Could dying hpfp cause black smoke on start up?
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      05-15-2012, 08:36 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 335i E92 View Post
Thanks guys, both links made interesting reading!!

Especially when you consider that I'm still on my original pump on a 56 plate at 80k and asking it to deliver Evolve stage 2 fuel pressures.

Maybe this is my fix, oil loss aside (which I'm hoping is now fixed) the fuel pump might just be the obvious answer. Pretty sure they're only £250 and are an easy install!!

I've also been getting the 2AAF (fuel pump plausibility) code for months, although a lot say that is to be ignored and isn't hpfp related.
A slowly dying HPFP may gradually cause the power to drop over time as the pump struggles to deliver enough fuel pressure. It may not be enough to log codes and could make it hard to notice as it's very gradual. It took a very long time for my pump to finally log 29F2 codes and eventually it won't be able to supply the pressure required by the map.

A new HPFP pump is around 230+VAT, but it's an intake off job which may be a 2-3 hour+ job all in. So maybe not an easy job, but definitely possibly for an advanced DIY'er.
A few DIY instructions so you can see what you're getting yourself into.
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=321931
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=654820

Do you see any other errors with the 2AAF code?
From the engine troubleshooting map it seems that 2AAF could be related to the Low Pressure side of the fuel system.
http://www.bmwtis.com/tsb/attachment...fault_tree.pdf

Quote:
Originally Posted by 335i E92 View Post
Could dying hpfp cause black smoke on start up?
Doubt it very much and unfortunately I think it would be wishful thinking.
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      05-16-2012, 02:43 AM   #37
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HPFP when on the way out, normally start with extended cranking before the engine fires up. I can't see how a knackered pump will cause blue smoke. I'm wondering if compression is low, maybe valves not seating and more than acceptable engine oil is running into the bore overnight.
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      05-16-2012, 07:04 AM   #38
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As I said I’m hoping that the oil consumption issue has been addressed although when I started the car this morning and I swear the puff of smoke is back to a bluish grey.

I'll know for sure over the next week or so. If it drops again then I’m taking it back to Woods for them to investigate the head and do a compression test.

If the oil consumption persist then at least in know it’s not the PCV and we've already identified that the symptoms don't coincide with turbo seals. I also had the intercooler and pipes inspected and no sign off excessive oil in there which further confirms it’s not the turbo's.

If it keeps drinking oil it can only be valve seals or something head related. As you said earlier Creepy, a puff of smoke on start up definitely points to something leaking down over night and being burnt off on ignition.

As for the HPFP theory, I’ll keep an eye on the codes. I'm pretty sure that its gradually failing though as the performance can be patchy sometimes, good and bad days with no real explanation and at 80k and a stage 2 tune its probably likely it's not 100%.

H
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      05-24-2012, 08:28 AM   #39
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My 323i keeps chugging along with the same issue despite changing the crankcase ventilation valve and not having any of the fancy injectors or HPFP from the 335i.

Yesterday, I saw the worst amount of blue smoke I've seen so far on start-up. I'm due for Inspection II in July or August and I am considering having the dealer do a compression check on it. However, I am also considering just heading over to the VW dealership and getting the 2012 Touareg TDI I have been lusting for too!
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      07-10-2012, 11:01 AM   #40
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Update...

Still getting a black / blue puff of smoke on start up which only happens after the car has been stood for a few hours or more.

I had a complete new crank case cover and PCV replaced a month ago and had all of my injectors and plugs inspected at the wend at woods of which were are 100%. Since the New PCV the oil consumption has improved but Im still getting smoke on start up which is frustrating.

Given the plugs, injectors and PCV have all been ruled out I can only be that the valve stem seals are out of spec and allowing oil to seep down overnight. The problem is that I had a full head re-build around 10 months ago with Woods and the valve seals were replaced at the time meaning they were either fitted incorrectly or a seal is faulty.

TBH Im in a bit of a predicament as Ive got a great relationship with Woods and theyve always gone beyond the call of duty to look after me so Im really not sure how to approach this with them as its potentially a big job to put right.

I basically need to decide if Im going to live with it or if I need to address it, does anyone know if there are any long term implications of leaking seals? Will this cause me further problems down the road if left?
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      07-10-2012, 11:43 AM   #41
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i took my 335i into bluebell wilmslow (under AUC warranty) with exactly the same issue, they cannot find a fault.

That is to say there is nothing obviously wrong without stripping down the head/block/pistons, which we havent broached yet as im on a 6 week "see how it goes after a software update" period.

The master tech allegedly told the service advisor "some 335's do that" to which i replied it wouldnt when it had left the factory.

The long and short of it is, there is oil being burnt, and its coming from somewhere (although i have not noticed any drop in oil level in 3000 miles since i got the car)

My next step is to try a full de-coke of the engine http://www.terraclean.co.uk/

My cars just ticked onto 39k

the puff of smoke seems to coincide with the flap uin the exhaust moving when the car starts, whether its related or not i dont know?
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      07-10-2012, 11:50 AM   #42
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very interesting thread!

is urs still drinkin oil OP?
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      07-10-2012, 01:41 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by creepy coupe View Post
Has anyone carried out a compression check?
whats a compression check?...and roughly how much does it cost?
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      07-10-2012, 05:21 PM   #44
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Oil consumption is better following new PCV, around 1/4 litre every 1250 miles ish!!

Compression test is only for piston rings I think not a way to test seals, anyone?

Would appreciate any advice on implications of not addressing slightly leaking seals over time as this'll help my decision as to what action I'm gonna take.

Cheers

H
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