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      05-01-2012, 07:24 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by Jeff@topgearsolutions View Post
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Feel free to hit me up and we can go over all the options that fits your needs.
Thanks, will do

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      05-01-2012, 07:56 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff@topgearsolutions View Post
Yea plenty of car fires actually.

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=669688

Feel free to read the above. Majority stem from cracked WW necks or caps coming off and sloshing meth on the turbo side of the engine.
Ouch, hadn't seen this thread before, thanks. I'll most likely be getting a 335i/535i without warranty so the trunk mount isn't sounding so bad afterall.
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      05-01-2012, 11:34 AM   #25
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I think I figured out my main question on BMS website. It sounds like the JB4 controls the meth flow, right?. So, if I want to turn meth off (like for my boring short commute to work on a 30 mph road), then I switch it from map 3 to map 5 or whatever?

Bottom line is that my commute to/from work is pretty lame so I can't/don't get on it much, and I don't street race so I want to conveniently be able to turn meth on/off. I want it for the weekends/track/road trips.
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      05-01-2012, 01:20 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maurie2566 View Post
I think I figured out my main question on BMS website. It sounds like the JB4 controls the meth flow, right?. So, if I want to turn meth off (like for my boring short commute to work on a 30 mph road), then I switch it from map 3 to map 5 or whatever?

Bottom line is that my commute to/from work is pretty lame so I can't/don't get on it much, and I don't street race so I want to conveniently be able to turn meth on/off. I want it for the weekends/track/road trips.
Yes, you just select map 3 when you want meth to flow and then go back to map 1 or 5 to disable it. Or map 8 if you are trying to hyper mile it.

Also, the WW tank fire "issue" is way blown out of proportion around here. There are maybe a thousand people using their WW tank for methanol and I've only heard of 3 fires. Two involved 100% meth (which is very flammable) and one involved a 50/50 mix but the meth tank didn't even burn up in the fire so it doesn't seem it was directly related. I've heard of engine fires on cars with no meth at all too. A 50/50 mix is very stable and close to the windshield wiper fluid we use up here during the winter. (47%Meth in some) Just take some basic precautions to ensure the cap is on tight / in good order, and that your filler neck is not leaking, and you won't have any issues.

Mike
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      05-01-2012, 01:35 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike@N54Tuning.com View Post
Yes, you just select map 3 when you want meth to flow and then go back to map 1 or 5 to disable it. Or map 8 if you are trying to hyper mile it.

Also, the WW tank fire "issue" is way blown out of proportion around here. There are maybe a thousand people using their WW tank for methanol and I've only heard of 3 fires. Two involved 100% meth (which is very flammable) and one involved a 50/50 mix but the meth tank didn't even burn up in the fire so it doesn't seem it was directly related. I've heard of engine fires on cars with no meth at all too. A 50/50 mix is very stable and close to the windshield wiper fluid we use up here during the winter. (47%Meth in some) Just take some basic precautions to ensure the cap is on tight / in good order, and that your filler neck is not leaking, and you won't have any issues.

Mike
Thanks Mike. I'll most likely just run Boost Juice and stay away from the higher meth mix.
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      05-01-2012, 01:36 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maurie2566 View Post
Thanks Mike. I'll most likely just run Boost Juice and stay away from the higher meth mix.
Ya thats a popular choice

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      05-01-2012, 01:42 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maurie2566 View Post
I think I figured out my main question on BMS website. It sounds like the JB4 controls the meth flow, right?. So, if I want to turn meth off (like for my boring short commute to work on a 30 mph road), then I switch it from map 3 to map 5 or whatever?

Bottom line is that my commute to/from work is pretty lame so I can't/don't get on it much, and I don't street race so I want to conveniently be able to turn meth on/off. I want it for the weekends/track/road trips.
if you don't go past 10psi (I rarely touch 5psi, 5psi at 3,000rpm part throttle already feels like "hyper acceleration" because of the ecu ignition advance), meth will never flow so you can leave it in Map 3.

But if you want to never use meth aside from those times you listed above, by all means use map 1, 2, or 5 (with 93 octane). The only issue I can see with not using the meth system at least once a day or every other day or once a week would be air bubble's in the meth line that could develop (you might have to bleed the system to get correct flow).

Whatever meth kit you choose, once you go meth, you'll be hooked. The car accelerates with so much force in 3rd-4th gears during WOT runs; my friend said it best, "acceleration is so smooth, unflustered, undramatic, aside from being firmly pressed against the seat."

With either meth delivery system (WW or tank), there are risks. I've so far have made marked improvements with my WW system via an additional vent/pressure release hose which kept my filler cap tightly sealed (the tube, which was once white, is now half pink with little drips of vapor in there, so it's definately helping). I've learned to never fill it to the neck area either.
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      05-01-2012, 01:45 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maurie2566 View Post
Thanks Mike. I'll most likely just run Boost Juice and stay away from the higher meth mix.
FWIW, if you order from summitracing via ebay ($41.45 shipped for 4 1gallon bottles), they give you a $20 off discount on the next purchase above $100. So if you order 12 bottles next time, each bottle ends up to be about $8.65. Add some yellow bottles of HEET if you go to the track and want a higher ratio than 49/51%
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      05-01-2012, 02:10 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spool twice View Post
if you don't go past 10psi (I rarely touch 5psi, 5psi at 3,000rpm part throttle already feels like "hyper acceleration" because of the ecu ignition advance), meth will never flow so you can leave it in Map 3.

But if you want to never use meth aside from those times you listed above, by all means use map 1, 2, or 5 (with 93 octane). The only issue I can see with not using the meth system at least once a day or every other day or once a week would be air bubble's in the meth line that could develop (you might have to bleed the system to get correct flow).

Whatever meth kit you choose, once you go meth, you'll be hooked. The car accelerates with so much force in 3rd-4th gears during WOT runs; my friend said it best, "acceleration is so smooth, unflustered, undramatic, aside from being firmly pressed against the seat."

With either meth delivery system (WW or tank), there are risks. I've so far have made marked improvements with my WW system via an additional vent/pressure release hose which kept my filler cap tightly sealed (the tube, which was once white, is now half pink with little drips of vapor in there, so it's definately helping). I've learned to never fill it to the neck area either.
Thanks for the info, I'd probably have it on more than I say I would after getting it, lol.

Quote:
Originally Posted by spool twice View Post
FWIW, if you order from summitracing via ebay ($41.45 shipped for 4 1gallon bottles), they give you a $20 off discount on the next purchase above $100. So if you order 12 bottles next time, each bottle ends up to be about $8.65. Add some yellow bottles of HEET if you go to the track and want a higher ratio than 49/51%
Sweet, thats not too bad.
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      05-01-2012, 02:15 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike@N54Tuning.com View Post
Yes, you just select map 3 when you want meth to flow and then go back to map 1 or 5 to disable it. Or map 8 if you are trying to hyper mile it.

Also, the WW tank fire "issue" is way blown out of proportion around here. There are maybe a thousand people using their WW tank for methanol and I've only heard of 3 fires. Two involved 100% meth (which is very flammable) and one involved a 50/50 mix but the meth tank didn't even burn up in the fire so it doesn't seem it was directly related. I've heard of engine fires on cars with no meth at all too. A 50/50 mix is very stable and close to the windshield wiper fluid we use up here during the winter. (47%Meth in some) Just take some basic precautions to ensure the cap is on tight / in good order, and that your filler neck is not leaking, and you won't have any issues.

Mike
Mike

I unfortunately have seen these fires first hand, I can assure you if your taking things lightly and recommending these kits to customers it may be a costly mistake to someone, especially in the sue happy world today. That is something to consider not only for the benefit of the community but for peoples safety in general.

Just cause you heard of 3 doesnt mean much. I've had about 10 people come forward and I consider myself someone that doesnt experience the entire community as a whole.

Here are some pictures I accumulated:

NOTE: 50/50 MIX
-Pics removed



I'm not sure why people take this so lightly cause you dont see it posted daily. Not everyone is boasting about these issues in fear of insurance repercussions.

The fire dept was called fast enough to avoid too much damage to the interior but the car is still a total loss.

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      05-01-2012, 02:27 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by pavo335 View Post
and under the floor flap
Did you have that tank custom made or does someone actually make and sell these?

very clean setup btw, i had something just like that in mind, but don't have the expertise to fab up a tank like that.
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      05-01-2012, 02:29 PM   #34
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Is there a direct boiling point proportion between the meth/water ratio? Meaning is it safe to assume that if a 50/50 mix boils at X, and 60/40 boils at X, can we predict what 70/30 will boil at?
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      05-01-2012, 02:33 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff@topgearsolutions View Post
Mike

I unfortunately have seen these fires first hand, I can assure you if your taking things lightly and recommending these kits to customers it may be a costly mistake to someone, especially in the sue happy world today. That is something to consider not only for the benefit of the community but for peoples safety in general.

Just cause you heard of 3 doesnt mean much. I've had about 10 people come forward and I consider myself someone that doesnt experience the entire community as a whole.

Here are some pictures I accumulated:

NOTE: 50/50 MIX




I'm not sure why people take this so lightly cause you dont see it posted daily. Not everyone is boasting about these issues in fear of insurance repercussions.

The fire dept was called fast enough to avoid too much damage to the interior but the car is still a total loss.
Not to discredit the pics or say that the WW is completely safe, but judging by the pic, I can see a visible meth line (white tubing, so did this guy not run any dye type fluid to visibly see any leaks?) running inside the battery line holder thingy (don't know the specific term for it) which is exposed to engine heat, specifically directly from the exhaust manifold and not above the pollen filter cowl area where the line remains cool to the touch, even with the hood closed.

If that isn't the meth line, please disregard this post.
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      05-01-2012, 02:36 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spool twice View Post
Not to discredit the pics or say that the WW is completely safe, but judging by the pic, I can see a visible meth line (white tubing, so did this guy not run any dye type fluid to visibly see any leaks?) running inside the battery line holder thingy (don't know the specific term for it) which is exposed to engine heat, specifically directly from the exhaust manifold and not above the pollen filter cowl area where the line remains cool to the touch, even with the hood closed.
The meth line was run on top of the cowl where it is recommended (farthest point away from heat and protected by the cowl). The WW reservoir was on fire upon popping the hood as well as components near the turbo area/engine cover area, 2 separate fires actually. I'd speculate that meth splashed over onto the turbo side of the engine and started its own fire and may have leeched back to the WW reservoir. Without having a camera at that onset of the problem we can only speculate.

The meth line did not go up until some time later that much I know.

If anyone is convinced this is indeed not a meth fire I would be happy to hear their opinions but I'm pretty convinced seeing what I've seen/heard/been told by various people.

I think its important to note 50/50 mix is hard to flame up, but it can still flame up, especially with the radiant heat of engine and turbo components, not to mention that water can boil away, leaving a higher concentration of meth.

I'll be honest, I find it a little silly that people fight over the WW setup and defend it, only because for less then $100 more you can have a trunk mount and lose a high majority of risk. This puts maybe another 30-hour of install time for piece of mind.

I have more pics proving that the meth line did not catch fire first but I rather not post them at this time.

Last edited by Jeff@TopGearSolutions; 05-01-2012 at 02:41 PM.
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      05-01-2012, 02:41 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff@topgearsolutions View Post
The meth line was run on top of the cowl where it is recommended (farthest point away from heat and protected by the cowl). The WW reservoir was on fire upon popping the hood as well as components near the turbo area/engine cover area, 2 separate fires actually. I'd speculate that meth splashed over onto the turbo side of the engine and started its own fire and may have leeched back to the WW reservoir. Without having a camera at that onset of the problem we can only speculate.

The meth line did not go up until some time later that much I know.

If anyone is convinced this is indeed not a meth fire I would be happy to hear their opinions but I'm pretty convinced seeing what I've seen/heard/been told by various people.
The more I look at the pic, the more I'm convinced that the meth line wasn't properly ran. That line looks fused to the battery line now. IDK, maybe a friend of the friend of the friend of this car can chime in. I'm pretty interested as well as I wouldn't want this to happen to anyone either. Jeff, can you PM me more pics possibly?
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      05-01-2012, 02:43 PM   #38
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Nice. Did you have someone custom make the tank or did you buy that from a vendor? I've seen tanks like this for the Vette, but haven't seen one for the 335. How much does it hold?

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and under the floor flap
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      05-01-2012, 02:43 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff@topgearsolutions View Post
I think its important to note 50/50 mix is hard to flame up, but it can still flame up, especially with the radiant heat of engine and turbo components, not to mention that water can boil away, leaving a higher concentration of meth.

I'll be honest, I find it a little silly that people fight over the WW setup and defend it, only because for less then $100 more you can have a trunk mount and lose a high majority of risk. This puts maybe another 30-hour of install time for piece of mind.

I have more pics proving that the meth line did not catch fire first but I rather not post them at this time.
I was able to find a 168degree boiling point with a 50/50 ratio, lower than I had originally though. I have a 2.2 gallon trunk tank on the way (bought less than $30 actually), but I'm still curious about these WW fires.
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      05-01-2012, 02:49 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spool twice View Post
The more I look at the pic, the more I'm convinced that the meth line wasn't properly ran. That line looks fused to the battery line now. IDK, maybe a friend of the friend of the friend of this car can chime in. I'm pretty interested as well as I wouldn't want this to happen to anyone either. Jeff, can you PM me more pics possibly?
I can assure you that you are confused on where the meth line was placed.
It was placed on TOP of the cowl right where the in cabin filters are. I can also assure you the fire DID NOT start there. If the meth line where it was installed were to leak it would drop into the OEM drains just like rain would.

I'm not sure what picture you are looking at but none of them show the meth line in them anyway except the one with the vehicle on fire.

The after pics do not show the meth line cause it combusted into ash.
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      05-01-2012, 03:04 PM   #41
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Jeff I know you are advocating the Trunk mount kits and very much against the WW kits but how do you explain commercially available windshield washer fluid which is close to 50% meth, which is the ratio that is recommended in these kits?

Mike
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      05-01-2012, 03:07 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike@N54Tuning.com View Post
Jeff I know you are advocating the Trunk mount kits and very much against the WW kits but how do you explain commercially available windshield washer fluid which is close to 50% meth, which is the ratio that is recommended in these kits?

Mike
I'm not sure that is the point, Mike. However, I will entertain your question, I'm fairly certain their are PLENTY of warning labels about the use of those fluids on the label? Is there not?

From your position it would seem that you would advocate a potential risk for NO real benefit when there is a less risky option easily within reach, so the question remains, why push it so hard?

There is actually an inherent design flaw in the car in general with its location of the WW reservoir/neck. To be honest I think BMW themselves should look into relocating on the WW filler neck but that is for a different discussion and something that will likely never reach the right people. It is likely that its not a large enough risk on a large scale as most general BMW users use BMW WW fluid which is not over 40% concentration so the risk is likely deemed negligible to them.

My answer is always stick with the solution, Mike. The solution however you want to cut the slice is, simply move to a trunk mount tank.

I'm not sure why you want to fight tooth and nail over this, there is plenty of money to be made in the upgrade to a trunk mount tank, you should see this as dollars signs afterall? haha

But I have to ask, commercial grade ww fluid in a passenger car? Seems a little out of place, doesnt it?

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      05-01-2012, 03:21 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff@topgearsolutions View Post
But I have to ask, commercial grade ww fluid in a passenger car? Seems a little out of place, doesnt it?
The 40-50% percent Washer fluid is not commercial. Its off the shelf available in most auto parts stores.

My point is to put the warning in perspective. Is there a risk in running 100% meth in the WW, yes for sure, but my point is that running a 50% methanol mix in the WW tank is no more dangerous then filling your WW tank with wiper fluid.

Obviously care needs to be taken to ensure everything is in good condition, including the WW tank, the lines, etc. (especially the routing of the meth line but that goes for trunk mount and WW mount)

Any loss of car is saddening, and we should work to avoid such things as best we can but things need to be put in perspective. Since you seem familiar with that incident, do you know what meth percentage was run in that car?

Mike
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      05-01-2012, 03:22 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Javier View Post
Did you have that tank custom made or does someone actually make and sell these?

very clean setup btw, i had something just like that in mind, but don't have the expertise to fab up a tank like that.
the local shop makes them shoot skycat a pm and I am sure he will give you all the details to suit your car model
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