E90Post
 


 
BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > BMS WW meth FAQ?



Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      05-01-2012, 03:24 PM   #45
pavo335
Banned
 
pavo335's Avatar
 
Drives: 3.5 wheeler
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: sydney

Posts: 2,981
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wedge1967 View Post
Nice. Did you have someone custom make the tank or did you buy that from a vendor? I've seen tanks like this for the Vette, but haven't seen one for the 335. How much does it hold?
It holds a little over 4 litres and has a venting cap thinggie, real easy to fill and no mess, the vendor is on here 'skycat' shoot him a pm.
pavo335 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      05-01-2012, 03:26 PM   #46
Jeff@TopGearSolutions
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor

 
Jeff@TopGearSolutions's Avatar
 
Drives: C6 Z06, GSXR-750, 09 335i
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: TopGearSolutions.com

Posts: 16,413
iTrader: (31)

Send a message via AIM to Jeff@TopGearSolutions
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike@N54Tuning.com View Post
The 40-50% percent Washer fluid is not commercial. Its off the shelf available in most auto parts stores.

My point is to put the warning in perspective. Is there a risk in running 100% meth in the WW, yes for sure, but my point is that running a 50% methanol mix in the WW tank is no more dangerous then filling your WW tank with wiper fluid.

Obviously care needs to be taken to ensure everything is in good condition, including the WW tank, the lines, etc. (especially the routing of the meth line but that goes for trunk mount and WW mount)

Any loss of car is saddening, and we should work to avoid such things as best we can but things need to be put in perspective. Since you seem familiar with that incident, do you know what meth percentage was run in that car?

Mike
As posted it was 50/50 mix.

Indeed care needs to be taken, and one can only do so much. They say you shouldn't smoke in bed because of the risk of falling asleep and stuff catching on fire (I'm not a smoker), but people still do it and live to talk about it. However, it would seem to anyone that they can simply avoid a potential problem, by not smoking in bed as there are cases of people falling asleep while smoking and their homes catching on fire.

The same rules still apply here. Knowing what we know now, as these cars age and people put miles on them we learn more.

It seems we are learning now that there could on the ever so slightest chance be a potential risk with this setup. Is everyone on the road going to encounter this, no. Could there be a higher chance of getting hit by lighting, maybe This is not to say a trunk mount kit is bullet proof either, I've probably said this few times now, the safest meth is no meth.

You know Mike I've been running meth in my car since almost day 1 so I'm not against the use of it but its important to let others know to watch out. If anyone people can learn to make sure their cap is secure or do some modifications and be aware of potential hazards in their filler cap, and ensure there meth lines are ran appropriately and not to overfill their WW reservoirs more then 1 gallon. If they learn that much more from this thread I'm good with that.

However, I atleast sleep better at night knowing people know their is an inherent risk. That's all I want people to know. I just want you to know I'm not picking on the BMS kit, I've already spoke with Vishnu about their kit as well. They are making some changes to their new kits from what I hear. (nothing set in stone yet).

Something to think about.
Jeff@TopGearSolutions is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      05-01-2012, 03:38 PM   #47
Wedge1967
Colonel
 
Wedge1967's Avatar
 
Drives: '07 e92 AT Sport Montego Blue
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Portland, OR

Posts: 2,173
iTrader: (3)

I remember Overboosts fire. He was using 80% in his WW. Everyone thought it was a coil pack because it burned out the valve cover.

I actually had the same fire, but I was luck and got the fire put out before it did any damage. I was running 50/50 from the WW and didn't have any issues, but went to get my DP installed and wanted to do some dyno pulls after so I put 80 to 90% meth in the WW tank. After installing the DPs, we took the car out for a quick spin and it wasn't more than a mile when I had smoke rolling into the car from the dash. We quickly stopped and opened the hood to find the foam under the valve cover was on fire just above the turbos. I actually used my hand to smack the top of the valve cover to put the fire out. Just the shock wave from hitting it was enough fortunately. We took it back to the shop and put it on the lift. When we dropped the sub pan it was wet from the WW tank over flow. My assumption is the overflow ran back on the DPs, caught fire and flame went up the side of the engine catching the foam under the valve cover on fire. Today I won't run higher than 70% now and always have a fire extinguisher in my car.

I plan to change to a trunk mount and would highly recommend doing so for any new installations. I would also recommend a race approved fuel cell with foam. 4 gal Summit tank is only $100 9x10x17in Just my OP...



Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff@topgearsolutions View Post
I'd speculate that meth splashed over onto the turbo side of the engine
Wedge1967 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      05-01-2012, 03:44 PM   #48
Jeff@TopGearSolutions
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor

 
Jeff@TopGearSolutions's Avatar
 
Drives: C6 Z06, GSXR-750, 09 335i
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: TopGearSolutions.com

Posts: 16,413
iTrader: (31)

Send a message via AIM to Jeff@TopGearSolutions
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wedge1967 View Post
I remember Overboosts fire. He was using 80% in his WW. Everyone thought it was a coil pack because it burned out the valve cover.

I actually had the same fire, but I was luck and got the fire put out before it did any damage. I was running 50/50 from the WW and didn't have any issues, but went to get my DP installed and wanted to do some dyno pulls after so I put 80 to 90% meth in the WW tank. After installing the DPs, we took the car out for a quick spin and it wasn't more than a mile when I had smoke rolling into the car from the dash. We quickly stopped and opened the hood to find the foam under the valve cover was on fire just above the turbos. I actually used my hand to smack the top of the valve cover to put the fire out. Just the shock wave from hitting it was enough fortunately. We took it back to the shop and put it on the lift. When we dropped the sub pan it was wet from the WW tank over flow. My assumption is the overflow ran back on the DPs, caught fire and flame went up the side of the engine catching the foam under the valve cover on fire. Today I won't run higher than 70% now and always have a fire extinguisher in my car.

I plan to change to a trunk mount and would highly recommend doing so for any new installations. I would also recommend a race approved fuel cell with foam. 4 gal Summit tank is only $100 9x10x17in Just my OP...

It's interesting you say that you just installed downpipes because so did this car. See PM
Jeff@TopGearSolutions is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      05-01-2012, 03:46 PM   #49
hemi to e90
Lieutenant Colonel
 
hemi to e90's Avatar
 
Drives: 10 335i, 08 s550
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: staten island

Posts: 1,545
iTrader: (1)

these are overfill issues, so we are all clear right?
__________________
hemi to e90 is offline   Poland
0
Reply With Quote
      05-01-2012, 04:21 PM   #50
Jeff@TopGearSolutions
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor

 
Jeff@TopGearSolutions's Avatar
 
Drives: C6 Z06, GSXR-750, 09 335i
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: TopGearSolutions.com

Posts: 16,413
iTrader: (31)

Send a message via AIM to Jeff@TopGearSolutions
Quote:
Originally Posted by hemi to e90 View Post
these are overfill issues, so we are all clear right?
Overfilling is one case, but there is an overflow vent that it can escape from too (without over filling the reservoir). Since the tank has no baffles it can slosh around in the tank and come out the vent. Which seems even more plausible.
Jeff@TopGearSolutions is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      05-01-2012, 06:50 PM   #51
Wedge1967
Colonel
 
Wedge1967's Avatar
 
Drives: '07 e92 AT Sport Montego Blue
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Portland, OR

Posts: 2,173
iTrader: (3)

No, I'm not sure how you made that assumption. Overboost had a low WW indicator when he had his fire. I only had 1 gal in my tank, I know because I pumped it dry prior. Meth fires are no joke. Honestly if you are running WW meth and you think it can't happen to you, then I truly hope that's the case and it doesn't.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hemi to e90 View Post
these are overfill issues, so we are all clear right?
Wedge1967 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      05-01-2012, 08:03 PM   #52
BOosted 335i
2 Little Snails
 
BOosted 335i's Avatar
 
Drives: 335i Sedan
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: NJ

Posts: 54
iTrader: (0)

well what about installing a ww tank on drivers side in fender? There was someone here that posted a pic last year. it was a blue 335 that added a tank in the drivers side. it would be away from the heat?
__________________
Current Mods: JB4 / FSB Trunk Mount METH KIT / 3" DownPipes / HPF INTERCOOLER / ER CHARGEPiPE w TiAL BOV / OCC / DCi / BMS LED HALOS / 19inch Jarama TSWs / Vanguard V2
BOosted 335i is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      05-01-2012, 08:18 PM   #53
Wedge1967
Colonel
 
Wedge1967's Avatar
 
Drives: '07 e92 AT Sport Montego Blue
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Portland, OR

Posts: 2,173
iTrader: (3)

It would get it away from the main heat source. I really think the reason my fire kicked off was due to a few issues. Meth evaporates quickly as it's heated. The pressure inside the tank must go somewhere, so as the meth sloshes around in the tank, the pressure blows it out the overflow. In my case it was dumping onto the belly pan and ran back onto the hot down pipes. I actually thought about a smaller tank on the intake side, but then you're always running out. I just think the way to go is a pro tank in the trunk with the foam to keep the Meth from sloshing around in the tank.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BOosted 335i View Post
well what about installing a ww tank on drivers side in fender? There was someone here that posted a pic last year. it was a blue 335 that added a tank in the drivers side. it would be away from the heat?
Wedge1967 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      05-02-2012, 06:25 AM   #54
Peter@Advan
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor

 
Peter@Advan's Avatar
 
Drives: 335 coupe ADVAN
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Sydney

Posts: 1,311
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by pavo335 View Post
It holds a little over 4 litres and has a venting cap thinggie, real easy to fill and no mess, the vendor is on here 'skycat' shoot him a pm.
Thanks Pavo
I think our in trunk tanks are the best bar non, they are fantastic for us Australians.
But the US guys wont spend the money sorry to say i think they need a few more fires before they get there act together
Peter@Advan is offline   Australia
0
Reply With Quote
      05-02-2012, 07:10 AM   #55
mo2566
Second Lieutenant
 
mo2566's Avatar
 
Drives: 2008 335i e90
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: SRQ, FL

Posts: 220
iTrader: (0)

Thanks for all the feedback guys... more than I was expecting and I'm glad to know the issues and risks.
mo2566 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      05-02-2012, 08:01 AM   #56
spool twice
Rainbow Racer
 
spool twice's Avatar
 
Drives: S65B40
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Sarasota, FL

Posts: 1,230
iTrader: (7)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wedge1967 View Post
It would get it away from the main heat source. I really think the reason my fire kicked off was due to a few issues. Meth evaporates quickly as it's heated. The pressure inside the tank must go somewhere, so as the meth sloshes around in the tank, the pressure blows it out the overflow. In my case it was dumping onto the belly pan and ran back onto the hot down pipes. I actually thought about a smaller tank on the intake side, but then you're always running out. I just think the way to go is a pro tank in the trunk with the foam to keep the Meth from sloshing around in the tank.
thank you for this. I've always suspected a pressure/vacuum issue and the OEM unit not being able to vent this efficiently. Before I made an additional pressure/vent tube, my WW cap always felt "loose," despite still being on properly capped after some hard runs, and when opened, there was some vacuum that had developed being released and the meth would temporarily rise with this release and drop, sloshing around for a couple seconds. Now after the additional pressure/vent tube, those symptoms are all gone.
__________________
E90 LCI M3 7-DCT Interlagos Blue/Novillo Silver
[MS Pullies|K&N drop-in|Test Pipes |Evolve Stage II tune|Evolve Servotronic Map|Evolve M3 GTS-DCT file]

Last edited by spool twice; 05-02-2012 at 08:07 AM.
spool twice is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      05-02-2012, 09:14 AM   #57
Tzu
Major
 
Drives: 335i
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Toronto

Posts: 1,438
iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by BOosted 335i View Post
well what about installing a ww tank on drivers side in fender? There was someone here that posted a pic last year. it was a blue 335 that added a tank in the drivers side. it would be away from the heat?
I'm still looking for an option myself, but I lack the time to put real effort into it. Ideally it would be a thin tank (like the WW res) and just plastic weld some mounts & a filler neck. It's a pain because I cant find any other options, but if you can find that thread then it will probably help quite a bit.
Tzu is offline   Canada
0
Reply With Quote
      05-27-2012, 10:52 PM   #58
mo2566
Second Lieutenant
 
mo2566's Avatar
 
Drives: 2008 335i e90
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: SRQ, FL

Posts: 220
iTrader: (0)

Sorry to bump my old thread, but didn't want to start a new one. I definitely will do trunk mount and boost juice (no higher than 50%). Will there be much risk with this setup when not running the map3? (specifically, when my wife drives the car or I have my kids in the car, I wouldn't run the meth map.... How high is my fire risk)?
mo2566 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      05-28-2012, 09:55 AM   #59
spool twice
Rainbow Racer
 
spool twice's Avatar
 
Drives: S65B40
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Sarasota, FL

Posts: 1,230
iTrader: (7)

50/50 mix IIRC has a boiling point of 176F; I don't believe the trunk will get up to that high of temp sitting in the hot sun. You can always try running a denatured alcohol/water mix because 100% denatured alcohol has a boiling point of about 178F, adding water to make a 50/50% mixture will only raise the point, which is better from a safety standpoint.

The biggest risk is being rear ended, where any mix except 100% water can ignite into flames.

There is always a risk factor when using methanol, regardless of which map you're in.
__________________
E90 LCI M3 7-DCT Interlagos Blue/Novillo Silver
[MS Pullies|K&N drop-in|Test Pipes |Evolve Stage II tune|Evolve Servotronic Map|Evolve M3 GTS-DCT file]
spool twice is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      05-28-2012, 10:11 AM   #60
Jeff@TopGearSolutions
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor

 
Jeff@TopGearSolutions's Avatar
 
Drives: C6 Z06, GSXR-750, 09 335i
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: TopGearSolutions.com

Posts: 16,413
iTrader: (31)

Send a message via AIM to Jeff@TopGearSolutions
Quote:
Originally Posted by mo2566 View Post
Sorry to bump my old thread, but didn't want to start a new one. I definitely will do trunk mount and boost juice (no higher than 50%). Will there be much risk with this setup when not running the map3? (specifically, when my wife drives the car or I have my kids in the car, I wouldn't run the meth map.... How high is my fire risk)?
You dont need to be actually running methanol through your engine to have a risk of fire. The risk is having methanol and higher concentrations stored in your windshield washer reservoir. You can be on map 0 or a stock car, but if you have a higher concentrated mixture in your reservoir you are still at risk like anyone else. I dont know the exact point at which any concentration is safe. In my opinion I would take out anything in the WW tank, I dont use the WW sprayers to clean my windows anyway. For those that need the WW sprayers to clean perhaps there are other solutions that dont use methanol and not flammable.
Jeff@TopGearSolutions is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:13 AM.




e90post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST