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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > MMP full silicone high flow outlets



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      01-29-2016, 10:06 AM   #1
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Cool MMP full silicone high flow outlets

This thread is to discuss the technical aspects of the MMP full silicone outlets. For commercial info search in the sponsors section or search on google for my website where you will find great pricing and package deals with inlets.

Just want to let everyone know that MMP now offers Brand New full one piece silicone outlets in production and available on my website. They are 2" to 3" design increasing flow through area more than 2x than stock. The design is the same as the aluminum outlets but are full one piece silicone. This is the largest design possible and most efficient routing possible. For those with 2.5" inter cooler inlets, it can easily be adapted to fit your 2.5" inter cooler inlet.

This outlet design is the only one that incorporates the most optimized smooth transition CNC adapters for best possible flow and lowest possible pressure loss. More fluid dynamics info on why this is an optimal design is here:
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showpo...&postcount=186







The MMP full silicone outlet is exactly the same as the MMP aluminum outlet design as it has the same pipe routing, merges, and pipe diameters everywhere. Actually silicone design flows better because there is no aluminum pipe to silicone pipe transitions. As such the gains will be the same or better than the aluminum outlets.

Here is a picture of the aluminum design that is the same routing and diameter as the silicone design announced here. I dont have pics of the silicone design as they are being made now but soon as I have the pics I will post them up here.



For reference here are the results of the aluminum outlets:

This is the only outlet design on the market with document independent 3rd party flow bench testing and also documented independent 3rd party controlled dyno testing with before and after dynos.

These outlets flow 10x better than stock outlets. See flow bench testing results below. Here are the measured results. For reference 700 SCFM is about 500hp



Here are the extrapolated results. For reference 700 SCFM is about 500 hp.



Here are the preliminary dyno results. 3rd party dyno testing results same car same dyno days apart with minimal tuning and the outlets made +30whp gain around peak torque, +25whp gain on the top end and +10whp gain at max power and +34wtq gain ALL WITHOUT pushing the tune to optimize for the outlets because it made these gains with 2 PSI LESS BOOST and LESS WGDC!

with an optimized tune and taking advantage of the freed up WGDC and boost, gains would be SIGNIFICANTLY improved! We have not seen what MMP outlets can actually do if tuned to take advantage of the freed up boost and WGDC.

Also the graphs with the outlets show slightly better spool



Here is the boost profile comparison of the dyno comparison above. The top boost curve is pre outlets and the bottom boost curve is post outlets. You can see all the gains was with 2psi less boost!



This outlet design is the only one on the market that incorporates the most optimized smooth transition CNC adapters for best possible flow and lowest possible pressure loss. More info fluid dynamics info on why this is an optimal design is here:
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showpo...&postcount=186

Check out my website for more information. If you have any questions, lets discuss here

Last edited by MM Performance; 01-29-2016 at 10:13 AM.
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      01-29-2016, 10:13 AM   #2
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updated the first post

also reserving this post for the future
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      01-29-2016, 11:22 AM   #3
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how difficult is the install on these things? What is it comparable too? like doing downpipes or will it be more difficult like installing inlets? thanks
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      01-29-2016, 11:46 AM   #4
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Do you think the higher boost threshold was due to the increased volume of the post turbo piping?

All of the above data is with the prototype half metal pipes or the full silicone units referenced in the title?

And $420 for the full silicone inlets and outlet? My wallets about to get lighter.
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      01-29-2016, 11:59 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HooDat
how difficult is the install on these things? What is it comparable too? like doing downpipes or will it be more difficult like installing inlets? thanks
I consider it to be easier than downpipes, but a minimum the same as DPs
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      01-29-2016, 12:00 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeatupVR4
Do you think the higher boost threshold was due to the increased volume of the post turbo piping?

All of the above data is with the prototype half metal pipes or the full silicone units referenced in the title?

And $420 for the full silicone inlets and outlet? My wallets about to get lighter.
No commerical discussion here.

As far as your technical question, the testing and data was fairly controlled and indicates clearly it was the outlets.
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      01-29-2016, 12:09 PM   #7
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Is the dyno graph without inlets?
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      01-29-2016, 12:54 PM   #8
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I don't know much about fluid dynamic, but is that fitting initially reducing the size of the turbo outlet? Looks like it fits inside the snout, making it smaller before the taper out.
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      01-29-2016, 01:25 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thacuda View Post
I don't know much about fluid dynamic, but is that fitting initially reducing the size of the turbo outlet? Looks like it fits inside the snout, making it smaller before the taper out.

Look at the stock outlet pipes.

I'd still like to know if the testing was done on the full silicone or half metal version.

EDIT: Oh derp it says the aluminum version now.
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      01-29-2016, 01:56 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeatupVR4 View Post
Look at the stock outlet pipes.

I'd still like to know if the testing was done on the full silicone or half metal version.

EDIT: Oh derp it says the aluminum version now.
loosing my sight and mind apparently. Thank you
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      01-29-2016, 03:14 PM   #11
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Ok, I couldn't hold back any longer, I took the dive. Ordered the silicone outlets.
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      01-29-2016, 03:22 PM   #12
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While I cringe at your engineering practices (i.e. extrapolating data 4.5 times into flow regimes that are not physically possible, showing flow data for your pipes without the adapters, and misuse of the word "optimize"), no doubt these will flow better than stock and the turbos won't have to work as hard. Glad you went with a full silicone option too.

What is the outlet ID to the intercooler?
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      01-30-2016, 12:13 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ferocity02
While I cringe at your engineering practices (i.e. extrapolating data 4.5 times into flow regimes that are not physically possible, showing flow data for your pipes without the adapters, and misuse of the word "optimize"), no doubt these will flow better than stock and the turbos won't have to work as hard. Glad you went with a full silicone option too.

What is the outlet ID to the intercooler?
3"
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      01-30-2016, 12:14 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thacuda
I don't know much about fluid dynamic, but is that fitting initially reducing the size of the turbo outlet? Looks like it fits inside the snout, making it smaller before the taper out.
It matches the ID of the compressor housing and makes a smooth transition to 2" ID. in no place does it reduce the diameter. Just match and smooth transition out, best design.
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      01-30-2016, 12:15 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jlcf22
Is the dyno graph without inlets?
With inlets before and after, only difference is outlet pipes
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      01-30-2016, 12:25 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MM Performance
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thacuda
I don't know much about fluid dynamic, but is that fitting initially reducing the size of the turbo outlet? Looks like it fits inside the snout, making it smaller before the taper out.
It matches the ID of the compressor housing and makes a smooth transition to 2" ID. in no place does it reduce the diameter. Just match and smooth transition out, best design.
See pic attached to see why I am talking about
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      01-30-2016, 09:40 AM   #17
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how about some pics of these "silicone"outlets?
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      01-30-2016, 10:15 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by N54 TuNeR
how about some pics of these "silicone"outlets?
Covered that question in the first post. Please read.
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      01-30-2016, 01:06 PM   #19
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Love the transitions in the adapters! Better than the steps in the OEM, and worlds better than no transition at all. The merge looks as well done as you can get with silicone as well.

I'd be all over this but for two concerns:

My IC has a 2.5 inch inlet -- nothing but extra volume to fill up in a 2 --> 3 inch version, which gives up some of the gains in spool and reduced WGDC. The 3 --> 2.5 reducer just compounds the problem. A 1.5 or 1.75 --> 2.5 version solves that. I don't care that it will flow less on a bench -- I just want it to match the rest of my hardware.

The silicone appears to be pretty close to the exhaust manifold on the front turbo, if I'm visualizing things correctly. Do you know what sort of temps it will see under repeated WOT use (i.e., at a track day), and what the long term life of the silicone will be in that environment?

Thanks
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      01-30-2016, 06:28 PM   #20
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Love the transitions in the adapters! Better than the steps in the OEM, and worlds better than no transition at all. The merge looks as well done as you can get with silicone as well.

I'd be all over this but for two concerns:

My IC has a 2.5 inch inlet -- nothing but extra volume to fill up in a 2 --> 3 inch version, which gives up some of the gains in spool and reduced WGDC. The 3 --> 2.5 reducer just compounds the problem. A 1.5 or 1.75 --> 2.5 version solves that. I don't care that it will flow less on a bench -- I just want it to match the rest of my hardware.

The silicone appears to be pretty close to the exhaust manifold on the front turbo, if I'm visualizing things correctly. Do you know what sort of temps it will see under repeated WOT use (i.e., at a track day), and what the long term life of the silicone will be in that environment?

Thanks
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      01-31-2016, 02:35 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flatspot
Love the transitions in the adapters! Better than the steps in the OEM, and worlds better than no transition at all. The merge looks as well done as you can get with silicone as well.

I'd be all over this but for two concerns:

My IC has a 2.5 inch inlet -- nothing but extra volume to fill up in a 2 --> 3 inch version, which gives up some of the gains in spool and reduced WGDC. The 3 --> 2.5 reducer just compounds the problem. A 1.5 or 1.75 --> 2.5 version solves that. I don't care that it will flow less on a bench -- I just want it to match the rest of my hardware.

The silicone appears to be pretty close to the exhaust manifold on the front turbo, if I'm visualizing things correctly. Do you know what sort of temps it will see under repeated WOT use (i.e., at a track day), and what the long term life of the silicone will be in that environment?

Thanks
Look at the dyno charts. Spool improves slightly going from stock outlets to MMP design.

No issues with the silicone so far but if you have concerns a little thermal shield will alleviate your concerns.
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      01-31-2016, 03:55 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MM Performance View Post
I consider it to be easier than downpipes, but a minimum the same as DPs
The outlets are significantly easier than inlets or downpipes, but slightly longer than FMIC or charge pipes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jlcf22 View Post
Is the dyno graph without inlets?
Dyno was FBO, so yes with inlets.

So far I've run about 1000 miles with the outlets, typically I'm a fairly tame driver though. I have done a few high stress/high heat runs, but nothing crazy yet. I'll probably get a track day in in the next few months though. My only problem as been a boost leak at the hot side of the intercooler, and that was immediately after install. Took the pipe back out, flared the ends, repositioned the clamp, no problems since. Of course the silicone hot side charge pipes won't have this issue.
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