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      05-06-2012, 03:11 PM   #23
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Yes - if it's anything like the M3 subframe bushing install, it will require lowering the subframe and that is 4-5 hrs for an experienced shop.
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      05-06-2012, 04:17 PM   #24
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Its nothing to do with your hardware mods and all to do with the way its been set up thereafter.

You really need a workshop that knows how to set a car up without reference to the standard BMW perameters.

A race team would be ideal, they can fettle it to your preferences.

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      05-06-2012, 05:59 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaFish View Post
Car is going in for another alignment (4 wheel) this week. I am also getting Michelin PSS's for the front (then the alignment).

Don't get me wrong, it isn't too bad... it just isn't laser sharp and requires small corrections. Maybe the alignment will solve it.

If you pull out to pass in 3rd and hammer it, you have to hang on for sure and correct the steering. This just could be the gobs of power and tq.

I was just expecting much more from all the mods. Tighter.
What alignment settings are you using?
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      05-06-2012, 07:10 PM   #26
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OP- I assume both of your rear tires are of the same age (amount of wear)? I had two different tires on the rear and they had a profound amount of push to one side when accelerating. I really only noticed this after the LSD install.
A long shot but I had to ask.
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      05-06-2012, 07:52 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bmw135er View Post
I'm in the same boat as you. Contemplating jumping ship to an M3... Upgrading to the M3 bushings in the subframe where the camber arms mount may help. The M3 bushings are quite a bit more solid and should reduce deflection under load. I also have been contemplating upgrading to the M3 differential bushings since I'm not into solid bushings.
I have a similar issue and I think it's more of a side effect to the Dinan/wavetrac LSD.
Do you know if the M3 diff bushings fit non-m cars?
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      05-06-2012, 08:46 PM   #28
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Keep us posted OP, I'm really curious to know the root cause...
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      05-07-2012, 07:46 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CALWATERBOY View Post
What alignment settings are you using?
The BMW Stealership that put my Dinan stage 3 suspension does my alignment - I take it there. I ask them to set it to the M3 specs, they know I have the dinan camber plates too. They are a good shop - from my experience.
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      05-07-2012, 07:51 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 335iSSA View Post
OP- I assume both of your rear tires are of the same age (amount of wear)? I had two different tires on the rear and they had a profound amount of push to one side when accelerating. I really only noticed this after the LSD install.
A long shot but I had to ask.
yes, 2 new rears went on last fall. 265/30/19 Bridgestone pole positions.

The fronts are not balancing though, so I am going to put 2 new PSS's on them and wear out the backs and then put on PSSs

This COULD be a root cause, I think I DID have an alignment issue and have worn out one of my fronts slightly more on the inside than the other one.

We swapped front side tires (left to right) and tried to balance as much as possible. I don't think this contributes to the power on torque steer though.

The diff bushings - are they UNDER the diff? I don't know if I am going to drop the rear subframe again.....
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      05-07-2012, 07:51 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YvesD View Post
Its nothing to do with your hardware mods and all to do with the way its been set up thereafter.

You really need a workshop that knows how to set a car up without reference to the standard BMW perameters.

A race team would be ideal, they can fettle it to your preferences.

Yves
Any idea what shop does this in Toronto Ontario?
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      05-07-2012, 07:57 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bmw135er View Post
I'm in the same boat as you. Contemplating jumping ship to an M3... Upgrading to the M3 bushings in the subframe where the camber arms mount may help. The M3 bushings are quite a bit more solid and should reduce deflection under load. I also have been contemplating upgrading to the M3 differential bushings since I'm not into solid bushings.
I have a similar issue and I think it's more of a side effect to the Dinan/wavetrac LSD.
I have the M3 subframe bushings, rear upper and lower M3 control arms, Rogue engineering rear toe arms, rear dinan sway, and the Wavetrac.

the rear toe arm helped a lot....

I think you are right, the Wavetrac and the power just might be powering this over to the left.

I have been contemplating the M3, but I would have to supercharge it. The mileage on that would be just awful, so if I can't fix this, I'll wait for the new M3 to see what that is, or look for a used GTR.
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      05-07-2012, 08:07 AM   #33
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I dont think the solid delrin subframe bushings would make the ride to harsh. The bushings that would make a car ride harsh are the bushings that the rear lower control arm connect to and the transmission mounts(lots of vibration especially at idle) The install can be done with a ball joint press or any bushing removal tool.


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Originally Posted by Autobahn335i View Post
I may give these solid diff bushings a try. Is alot of labour required to install them?

Also noticed that Turner sells solid subframe bushings, but I figure those will make the ride too harsh for street driving.
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      05-07-2012, 08:44 AM   #34
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Sorry Buddy, no, but someone here does?

Chaps?


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Any idea what shop does this in Toronto Ontario?
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      05-07-2012, 10:40 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaFish View Post
I have the M3 subframe bushings, rear upper and lower M3 control arms, Rogue engineering rear toe arms, rear dinan sway, and the Wavetrac.

the rear toe arm helped a lot....

I think you are right, the Wavetrac and the power just might be powering this over to the left.

I have been contemplating the M3, but I would have to supercharge it. The mileage on that would be just awful, so if I can't fix this, I'll wait for the new M3 to see what that is, or look for a used GTR.
That's why I mentioned differential bushings. I could be wrong; it's just a guess; obviously a realignment would be the first thing to try. I don't have as much HP as you and I still get a little lateral pull when I get on it hard. Same rear control arms as you; the toe links helped alot, but I am going to try harder durometer diff bushings.
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      05-07-2012, 11:04 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaFish View Post
The BMW Stealership that put my Dinan stage 3 suspension does my alignment - I take it there. I ask them to set it to the M3 specs, they know I have the dinan camber plates too. They are a good shop - from my experience.
An alignment should generate paper showing all settings prior to alignment; values after. What's it say?
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      05-07-2012, 11:08 AM   #37
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I have been contemplating the M3, but I would have to supercharge it. The mileage on that would be just awful, so if I can't fix this, I'll wait for the new M3 to see what that is, or look for a used GTR.
While waiting, pick up BMW's S1000RR.

0-60 <3 sec....pass frustrated GTR's....
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      05-07-2012, 01:41 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tres View Post
I dont think the solid delrin subframe bushings would make the ride to harsh. The bushings that would make a car ride harsh are the bushings that the rear lower control arm connect to and the transmission mounts(lots of vibration especially at idle).
On this diagram, do you mean bushings 14 & 15?




The M3 lower wishbone can only be fitted if you have M3-type dampers in the rear, which I don't have. So I want to get powerflex bushings for the wishbone to improve the handling a bit further.


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      05-07-2012, 03:06 PM   #39
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yes 15
http://www.turnermotorsport.com/p-30...r-e82-e9x.aspx


Quote:
Originally Posted by Autobahn335i View Post
On this diagram, do you mean bushings 14 & 15?




The M3 lower wishbone can only be fitted if you have M3-type dampers in the rear, which I don't have. So I want to get powerflex bushings for the wishbone to improve the handling a bit further.


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      05-07-2012, 07:36 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaFish View Post
After all these mods I have done ... I still have to report that the car is not tracking as straight a line as I would like it too.


Questions:
1) The people with the Full bolt ons and full suspension mods like I have - do you notice the same thing? (maybe there is a prob with my car)
2) What else do I have to change to get this thing buttoned down?
Reading about your quest to solve this for some time now has single-handedly kept me from getting an LSD! I would be so disappointed spending $2-3k and still have your exact problem. I'm still DP short of FBO and what you describe is exactly the same as my car. If you're in 2nd or 3rd gear, right in that sweet spot and punch it the car will lane change left while the wheel is straight.

I have koni's w/swifts, power flex sub-frame bushings and a fresh set of Michelin PSS. I have toe arms from HPA that I haven't gotten around to installing but I'm not optimistic.

I really think that the tolerances are poor on some cars or we have something defective. Common sense would suggest that either all of these guys pushing high HP are morons that don't know better or they don't have the problem. There is no way in hell I could push another 100hp and have the car even be drivable. It would be seriously unsafe. Obviously something is deflecting to the point where the suspension geometry is changing so much the car rear steers its way over.

Maybe that's the diagnostic approach....what change in rear alignment settings would be most likely cause this? toe in? camber?
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      05-07-2012, 10:07 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cvc 22349a
Do you know if the M3 diff bushings fit non-m cars?
A quick look at both cars on a lift at the same time seems like they would fit. It isn't an expensive bushing, I'll fall on the grenade and order one tomorrow. Definitely the rear diff bushing in the non M cars are weak, I can't really tell a huge difference in the front 2 bushings. They do not require lowering the subframe. I'm not sure if the diff moving around would cause this kind of situation or not. It doesn't change the suspension geometry, but maybe it changes how the power is distributed between the rear wheels based on an angle change of the axle shafts?
The powerflex diagram shown #15 is what I want to swap. #14 is a ball joint, so upgrading that isn't necessary. Really expensive to replace from powerflex for some reason too! The rogue/hp toe arms did make a nice difference, I was hoping it fixed the issue 100%, but I'd give it a 80-90% correction in my car. Even supercharged M3s don't do this, so I don't think it's a side effect of power output....
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      05-07-2012, 10:28 PM   #42
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Quote:
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A quick look at both cars on a lift at the same time seems like they would fit. It isn't an expensive bushing, I'll fall on the grenade and order one tomorrow. Definitely the rear diff bushing in the non M cars are weak, I can't really tell a huge difference in the front 2 bushings. They do not require lowering the subframe. I'm not sure if the diff moving around would cause this kind of situation or not. It doesn't change the suspension geometry, but maybe it changes how the power is distributed between the rear wheels based on an angle change of the axle shafts?
The powerflex diagram shown #15 is what I want to swap. #14 is a ball joint, so upgrading that isn't necessary. Really expensive to replace from powerflex for some reason too! The rogue/hp toe arms did make a nice difference, I was hoping it fixed the issue 100%, but I'd give it a 80-90% correction in my car. Even supercharged M3s don't do this, so I don't think it's a side effect of power output....
Aren't 25 and 26 in that Powerflex diagram the 3 differential bushings? 15 is a camber link bushing.
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      05-07-2012, 10:34 PM   #43
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Yes they are. I was unclear, but I tried to comment on 2 separate posts without posting twice. Not easy to do from the bimmerpost app lol. I'll price the urethane bushings, but I can have the oem parts next day. Although without a doubt the powerflex units will fit, where the M bushings may be questionable. Then I'll be stuck with some M bits that won't do anything but take up space in a junk drawer lol.
The powerflex bushings are $95 each X2 for the front and $50 for the rear one. I'll price the M components tomorrow for a comparison.
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      05-08-2012, 09:34 AM   #44
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dropping the subframe is not required to replace the diff bushings. You do need to drop the exhaust. A simple bushing driver tool will do the job. You dont even have to take off the axles if you have the bmw bushing tool. The job is time consuming 3hrs. The bushings come out easy the delrin takes time because you have to press it in some wait a few and then continue. The tolerances are very tight for the two small bushings the big one goes very easy. Also you need to apply loc tite to big bushing. If i knew there would be interest I wouldve taken some pics and posted a diy.

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Yes - if it's anything like the M3 subframe bushing install, it will require lowering the subframe and that is 4-5 hrs for an experienced shop.
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