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      05-11-2012, 03:29 PM   #23
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I think the intercooler is definitely a beneficial upgrade.

Check out our dyno sheets here.

http://www.extremeturbosystems.com/E...p-Dyno-Sheets/

This shows the importance of the intercooler. Not only when boost is increased but for overall reliability.

We also have a ton of data here.

http://www.extremeturbosystems.com/E...tercooler.html

This test was done using our 5.0" intercooler. (No Tuning)

Thanks!

Michael
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      05-12-2012, 07:57 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by eric@helix
I just finished a 3000 mile road trip where I looked at IATs in various conditions with the Helix intercooler. Temperatures were very stable. At steady-state, off-boost highway driving, the temperatures averaged 12 degrees over ambient. When I did a series of on-boost pulls, the temperature dropped 3 degrees and stayed consistent until I went back to steady-state driving. The temp would then temporarily raise 5-6 degrees for 30 to 60 seconds, and then stabilize at about 12 over ambient. After hard, on-boost driving, if I came to a stoplight and waited for 60 seconds or more, the temperature would raise to 22-26 degrees over ambent. By the time I was through the intersection, temps drop 5 degrees. In light-to-light driving with heavy traffic, the temps varied from 15 to 18 over ambient, dropping by 5-8 degrees during a on-boost pull.

Even with abusive, on-boost city driving, I could never get sustained temps more than 20 degrees over ambient.
Exact same results I have from the Wagner PnP FMIC. It took all of 30min to install too. Completely plug and play.

T
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      05-13-2012, 09:45 AM   #25
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That's pretty much the same direction our 335 took at first. We went with the Forge intercooler on our 335 and Forge Diverter Valves. Since then we've switch the Forge Vavles out for a RD BOV set up, but the Forge intercooler remains.
did u have problems with the forge dv's? i just ordered them friday will get them on monday, hopefully its a smooth installation.
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      05-13-2012, 02:39 PM   #26
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did u have problems with the forge dv's? i just ordered them friday will get them on monday, hopefully its a smooth installation.
I tried installing my Forge DVs yesterday.... Everything about the install is simple EXCEPT getting the OEM vacuum line on to the Forge DV nipple. The OEM hose is really narrow & was impossibly difficult to get on. Gave up out of frustration and put my OEM DVs back on.
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      05-13-2012, 06:17 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by benzy89 View Post
I tried installing my Forge DVs yesterday.... Everything about the install is simple EXCEPT getting the OEM vacuum line on to the Forge DV nipple. The OEM hose is really narrow & was impossibly difficult to get on. Gave up out of frustration and put my OEM DVs back on.
if i cant get the vacuum lines on, i will try soaking them in hot water, maybe they will stretch a little, works on bandsaw tires, (lol) else get different hose i guess...
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      05-13-2012, 06:31 PM   #28
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if i cant get the vacuum lines on, i will try soaking them in hot water, maybe they will stretch a little, works on bandsaw tires, (lol) else get different hose i guess...
Let me know how that goes.... I almost used wd40 & then I realized that if I sprayed that on, it'd prob fly right off the second I went WOT
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      05-14-2012, 06:43 AM   #29
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Exact same results I have from the Wagner PnP FMIC. It took all of 30min to install too. Completely plug and play.

T
I will admit that I have not driven nor tested a car with the Wanger IC, but it seems to be a functional knock-off of the Helix design. I am lucky to be close enough to Helix to support their business locally. They did the research and development and designed their IC on their own time right here in the US, and I am happy and willing to support their efforts by giving them my business. Obviously them being local to me means they are an American company and I make an effort to support US businesses. Yeah I know my car is German but I don't really like many American cars. I do like American mods though!
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      05-14-2012, 11:19 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by douwe22 View Post
did u have problems with the forge dv's? i just ordered them friday will get them on monday, hopefully its a smooth installation.
Ours went on pretty smooth. I believe the guys used a little heat to get some of the hoses to go on a little easier.
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      05-14-2012, 12:04 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djjasper View Post
I will admit that I have not driven nor tested a car with the Wanger IC, but it seems to be a functional knock-off of the Helix design. I am lucky to be close enough to Helix to support their business locally. They did the research and development and designed their IC on their own time right here in the US, and I am happy and willing to support their efforts by giving them my business. Obviously them being local to me means they are an American company and I make an effort to support US businesses. Yeah I know my car is German but I don't really like many American cars. I do like American mods though!
What is laughable about the post you are referencing is he said he is getting th same results that Eric got in his 3000 mile round trip that encompassed drastic changes in elevation and climate as Eric was in varying conditions from below sea level as well as in the Appalachian mountains. In addition Eric had the 135i at the Minis on the Dragon meet which is one of if not the most tortuous stretches of road in the country! The poster had just recieved his intercooler on May 7th and unless his travels mirrored Eric's there is no comparison.
... One thing of note is that our core is entirely different than the "copy" is we use a custom 1 piece core(not 2 cores welded together)with very high density offset staggered fin that has a thermal mass significantly higher than what is offered on "the copy" so results will not be the same as the helix in any regard!
Thanks for understanding our position in regards to the clear violations of our provisional patent on the stepped core concept, we still plan on enforcing it to the fullest extent of the law. It's very obvious that their entire business plan is to ride our coattails and not put any time, effort or even support this community, a community we have been supporting for the past 5 years...

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      05-14-2012, 03:56 PM   #32
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What is laughable about the post you are referencing is he said he is getting th same results that eric got in his 3000 mile round trip that encompassed drastic changes in elevation and climate as Eric was in varying conditions from below sea level as well as in the Appalachian mountains. In addition Eric had the 135i at the Minis on the Dragon meet which is one of if not the most tortuous stretches of road in the country! The poster had just recieved his intercooler on May 7th and unless his travels mirrored Eric's there is no comparison
... One thing of note is that our core is entirely different than the Wagner we use a custom 1 piece core(not 2 cores welded together)with very high density offset staggered fin that has a thermal mass significantly higher than what is offered on "the copy" so results will not be the same as the helix in any regard!
Thanks for understanding our position in regards to the clear violations of our provisional patent on the stepped core concept, we still plan on enforcing it to the fullest extent of the law. It's very obvious that just like their entire business plan is to ride our coattails and not put any time, effort or even support this community, a community we have ...
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      05-14-2012, 08:46 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TTurboBullett
Quote:
Originally Posted by djjasper View Post
I will admit that I have not driven nor tested a car with the Wanger IC, but it seems to be a functional knock-off of the Helix design. I am lucky to be close enough to Helix to support their business locally. They did the research and development and designed their IC on their own time right here in the US, and I am happy and willing to support their efforts by giving them my business. Obviously them being local to me means they are an American company and I make an effort to support US businesses. Yeah I know my car is German but I don't really like many American cars. I do like American mods though!
What is laughable about the post you are referencing is he said he is getting th same results that Eric got in his 3000 mile round trip that encompassed drastic changes in elevation and climate as Eric was in varying conditions from below sea level as well as in the Appalachian mountains. In addition Eric had the 135i at the Minis on the Dragon meet which is one of if not the most tortuous stretches of road in the country! The poster had just recieved his intercooler on May 7th and unless his travels mirrored Eric's there is no comparison.
... One thing of note is that our core is entirely different than the "copy" is we use a custom 1 piece core(not 2 cores welded together)with very high density offset staggered fin that has a thermal mass significantly higher than what is offered on "the copy" so results will not be the same as the helix in any regard!
Thanks for understanding our position in regards to the clear violations of our provisional patent on the stepped core concept, we still plan on enforcing it to the fullest extent of the law. It's very obvious that their entire business plan is to ride our coattails and not put any time, effort or even support this community, a community we have been supporting for the past 5 years...
Let me know how many logs you want for comparison. I drive over 3000 miles per month from the Appalachian mountains to the coast of south Carolina. I can produce logs of whatever you want to shoot it down.

T
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      05-15-2012, 06:42 AM   #34
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Let me know how that goes.... I almost used wd40 & then I realized that if I sprayed that on, it'd prob fly right off the second I went WOT
i spent about one hour to get everything done, used a little grease to put the vacuum lines on, for the rest its prety simple, sounds awesome with the forge dv's on.
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      05-15-2012, 06:43 AM   #35
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i spent about one hour to get everything done, used a little grease to put the vacuum lines on, for the rest its prety simple, sounds awesome with the forge dv's on.
also used zipties to keep the vacuum lines on..
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      05-15-2012, 09:27 AM   #36
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also used zipties to keep the vacuum lines on..
i'll give it a try... i'm gonna hold off cause i decided that if i'm gonna upgrade to the Forge DVs, that i might as well upgrade my CP at the same time (probably gonna go with ER's). just concerned that since i'll be running the COBB Stg 2+ that it'll eventually crack the OEM CP

hows the throttle response w/ the new DVs?
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      05-15-2012, 01:29 PM   #37
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helix

I asked this question in another post but never got an answer. I'm considering getting the Helix fmic but the only thing that concerns me and Correct me if i'm wrong but I believe this fmic overlaps or covers up about an inch of the lower radiator. A lot of people say this is no big deal or it's nothing to worry about but I haven't seen anything explaining why this doesn't matter. Considering that BMW offers a secondary radiator with their performance chip, it seems that they think the main radiator is already stressed and working to full capacity which makes me think that every square inch of it needs to be available and not obstructed in any way. I'm no expert or anything and not trying to knock the product; I'm just curious about this and wondering if anyone can elaborate on this at all?
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      05-15-2012, 01:57 PM   #38
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I asked this question in another post but never got an answer. I'm considering getting the Helix fmic but the only thing that concerns me and Correct me if i'm wrong but I believe this fmic overlaps or covers up about an inch of the lower radiator. A lot of people say this is no big deal or it's nothing to worry about but I haven't seen anything explaining why this doesn't matter. Considering that BMW offers a secondary radiator with their performance chip, it seems that they think the main radiator is already stressed and working to full capacity which makes me think that every square inch of it needs to be available and not obstructed in any way. I'm no expert or anything and not trying to knock the product; I'm just curious about this and wondering if anyone can elaborate on this at all?
It is the oil cooling that is compromised in these cars NOT the coolant/radiator. In the case of the Helix we have several hundred fmics out in use and have never heard of any issues with coolant temps, and many of the cars are used for motorsports ie road course , auto cross and cannonball style racing. In any regard the way a heat exchanger works is off of the temperature difference of the cooling air and the temperature of the radiator behind it, in this case there is still a huge temperature differential between the 220 degree + coolant temperatures and the heated ambient air exiting the back side of the FMIC! We try to create the best flow possible through the core by using rounded header bars that give the ambient air direction as well as lessening pressure drop on both the ambient and charge sides of the core ie an engineered solution to minimize/eliminate any potential issue in this regard!
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      05-15-2012, 06:32 PM   #39
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i'll give it a try... i'm gonna hold off cause i decided that if i'm gonna upgrade to the Forge DVs, that i might as well upgrade my CP at the same time (probably gonna go with ER's). just concerned that since i'll be running the COBB Stg 2+ that it'll eventually crack the OEM CP

hows the throttle response w/ the new DVs?
throttle response is better, and when i go wot it doesnt hesitate or throw codes at me, it handles the boost way better. so far im prety happy with it.
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      05-15-2012, 07:20 PM   #40
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throttle response is better, and when i go wot it doesnt hesitate or throw codes at me, it handles the boost way better. so far im prety happy with it.
awesome..... cannot wait to get everything installed now & run Stage 2+FMIC with the COBB and run higher boost w/ no concerns
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      05-16-2012, 03:02 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by nikitino25 View Post
I asked this question in another post but never got an answer. I'm considering getting the Helix fmic but the only thing that concerns me and Correct me if i'm wrong but I believe this fmic overlaps or covers up about an inch of the lower radiator. A lot of people say this is no big deal or it's nothing to worry about but I haven't seen anything explaining why this doesn't matter. Considering that BMW offers a secondary radiator with their performance chip, it seems that they think the main radiator is already stressed and working to full capacity which makes me think that every square inch of it needs to be available and not obstructed in any way. I'm no expert or anything and not trying to knock the product; I'm just curious about this and wondering if anyone can elaborate on this at all?
Good question. First, it's commonplace for factories to sandwich cooling cores in modern vehicles. When this is done, there is at least theoretically a difference in air flow and temperature differential across the face of the cooler of the sandwiched cores. That just makes sense. The question is: does it make a difference in the coolant temperature when running the car? The answer is: I haven't seen any difference. When the coolant temperature hits a threshold, the fan cycles on and cools the antifreeze without unusual temperature spikes. I'm not even noticing that the fan is cycling on more often. Your point is logical and one that I've looked at: I'm just not seeing any difference.
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      05-16-2012, 03:06 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mangler View Post
Exact same results I have from the Wagner PnP FMIC. It took all of 30min to install too. Completely plug and play.

T
I will admit that I have not driven nor tested a car with the Wanger IC, but it seems to be a functional knock-off of the Helix design. I am lucky to be close enough to Helix to support their business locally. They did the research and development and designed their IC on their own time right here in the US, and I am happy and willing to support their efforts by giving them my business. Obviously them being local to me means they are an American company and I make an effort to support US businesses. Yeah I know my car is German but I don't really like many American cars. I do like American mods though!
This. I'll stick with the original and forum sponsor as well.
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      05-16-2012, 03:13 PM   #43
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Can we please use this thread to push a bit for a intercooler shoot out? AMS, ER, ETS, Helix, VRSF? I know Helix offered their bench previously....
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      05-16-2012, 03:35 PM   #44
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Can we please use this thread to push a bit for a intercooler shoot out? AMS, ER, ETS, Helix, VRSF? I know Helix offered their bench previously....


Reputable FMIC companies:
  • AA -- 2 FMIC options: Sport & Race
  • AMS
  • ER -- 3 Kit Stages: Basic ( upgraded IC + piping), Standard (Basic + ER's CP) and Full (Standard + Carbon Fiber shroud)
  • ETS
  • Forge
  • Helix -- The original stepped IC
  • HPF -- If you buy it directly from HPF, there's 3 different options: Standard Kit, Stage 1 (includes HPF tune, intake & exhaust) and Stage 2 (their single turbo kit -- still in R&D stage)
  • Wagner -- Relatively "new" on the market, just from going to their website it looks like they blacked out a Helix FMIC & then took ETS' piping

Regardless, they're all a significant upgrade over the OEM IC and you can't go wrong with any of them

Last edited by benzy89; 05-16-2012 at 03:40 PM.
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