E90Post
 


N54Tuning.com
 
BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > Vishnu/FFTEC Single Turbo: New Overall N54 World Record



Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      05-10-2012, 10:45 AM   #23
Rob@RBTurbo
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor
Rob@RBTurbo's Avatar
21
Rep
1,104
Posts


 
Drives: 335I
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: St. Louis, MO

iTrader: (4)

I agree with this 100%. This car has all the goods, mid 10s should be like a stroll the park. Maybe another bug or two in it, but once it's figured out he will begin taking mondo bites into progress. Although a big deal all things considered with records, this slip is of no real importance in the grand scheme of things.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slidewayz View Post
High 10s ?

We want mid-10s, and my fearless prediction is you'll be doing them by the end of this year.

This is one amazing car, Shiv !
Appreciate 0
      05-10-2012, 10:49 AM   #24
Mark313
Private
0
Rep
87
Posts

 
Drives: none
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Rotten Apple

iTrader: (0)

This is why I keep visiting this site! To see new world records and all the progress that is being made! I'm glad you got the title back Shiv. You deserve it because you are the true pioneer of this platform! Congratulations. Can't wait to see you in the 10's.

Now over to b*mmerboost to see what the haters gotta say.
Appreciate 0
      05-10-2012, 10:51 AM   #25
themyst
Major General
themyst's Avatar
South Korea
86
Rep
6,602
Posts

 
Drives: E90 335i LCI
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: NYC

iTrader: (8)

Send a message via AIM to themyst
Quote:
Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu
Quote:
Originally Posted by themyst View Post
19 psi tapering to 16? Definitely wasn't maxed out. It had a ton more in the mid range and another 2-3 psi at redline. With a proper Cobb fuel base map stacking a piggyback there's surely more in there. Without a ton of meth either!

If he didn't grenade his trans I believe there were 10s in it.

Apples to oranges though, if your car was an auto it would run 10s on stock suspension with very little drama, assuming it held up.
His car made over 510whp with very little top end power roll off. And within 8whp of my max tune ASR car which ran 20psi to redline. Running more boost on small frame twin turbos doesn't results in more power when the exhaust housing is the main power restriction. Same thing applies to stock turbos but at a lower power level. I've tuned enough RB/ASR/TD sized turbos to know that you aren't going to get much more out of them regardless of how high you crank up that boost. They are wonderful turbos if you are looking to make up to 500whp with an aggressive tune. And that is more than enough for most people. But let's not pretend they are something they are not.
The compressor/turbine has more in them. I've seen some unpublished work with an N20 sensor and you'd be surprised.

FWIW, you personally worked dzennos car on the dyno with procede. I KNOW you found gains upping the boost with little taper. With that said, yes there was more in that car than with the boost pressure this specific car ran.

Not sure why you're going on the defensive. I am merely pointing out that car was not "maxed out", similar to how the single turbo isn't anywhere close to maxed out for various reasons.
__________________
E90 LCI N54 6AT
Appreciate 0
      05-10-2012, 10:58 AM   #26
shiv@vishnu
Tuner
United_States
702
Rep
17,616
Posts

 
Drives: X1, 335i
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: SF Bay, CA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by RobBeck View Post
Congrats on the record! What boost was this at? What is the race weight? Looks like it hooks really well and rolls out, overall a really clean pass... So I suspect fairly low boost.
Race weight should be about 3500lbs with me in the car. Only deliberate weight saving mods are seat removal and Corbeau sport seat. And whatever else I saved on mods (turbo hardware, exhaust, wheels, etc,.) Looking at the datalog, the run wasn't too clean. I hit the rev limit in 1st gear and discharged most of my boost which is why 2nd gear didn't pull hard from the get go. Also looks like my revs dropped to under 2000rpm during the bog at the launch. Looks like i shifted too late on my 2-3 and 3-4 shift as well since throttle blade closed a bit. In a good run, the throttle blade will stay wide open from beginning to the end with boost never dropping more than 4-5psi between shifts.

Full run:


Zoomed in on the launch. Lots of room for improvement:


I ran the car at full boost 23-23.5psi. Judging by the logs, there is another ~0.3 seconds in there with a perfect pass even in these hot temps. Hopefully we will go back next week with the 2-step sorted out and with a bit more practice under my belt.

On my first pass of the day (first pass ever with slicks), i nearly hit the side wall of the track because the tires weren't warmed up properly and push each side of the car in different directions. My last run of the night was funny too. I could barely even keep the car in my lane during the entire run. I have it on video which I'll post later tonight.

Shiv

Last edited by shiv@vishnu; 05-10-2012 at 11:07 AM.
Appreciate 0
      05-10-2012, 11:11 AM   #27
shiv@vishnu
Tuner
United_States
702
Rep
17,616
Posts

 
Drives: X1, 335i
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: SF Bay, CA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by themyst View Post
The compressor/turbine has more in them. I've seen some unpublished work with an N20 sensor and you'd be surprised.

FWIW, you personally worked dzennos car on the dyno with procede. I KNOW you found gains upping the boost with little taper. With that said, yes there was more in that car than with the boost pressure this specific car ran.

Not sure why you're going on the defensive. I am merely pointing out that car was not "maxed out", similar to how the single turbo isn't anywhere close to maxed out for various reasons.

I'm not being defensive. I'm being informative. On dzenno's car, just like every other ASR/RB turbo car I've tuned, I was struggling to hold 500whp to redline. That is a turbo limitation, not a map sensor limitation. When you see an RB turbo car make over 520whp, let me know. No question they can make more torque in the midrange with an upgraded MAP sensor by running more boost. But that won't really help in the 1/4 mile when revs rarely drop below 5500. And if you are getting timing flatlining now, what you see what you get a high boost/higher exhaust back pressure levels.

If you want to continue this topic of discussion, let's start another thread.

Shiv
Appreciate 0
      05-10-2012, 11:12 AM   #28
Presidio335xi
Lieutenant
5
Rep
412
Posts

 
Drives: 335xi coupe
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: San Francisco

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu View Post
Still, it ran well and put down a 11.105s @ 130.48 pass on the second run of the day.
Nice to see this done on a 6MT!!!!!!

You def. earned this one and we know it can get even better.
__________________
335xi: 6MT: 35% Tint: V5 Rev. 3: FlexFuel: LPFP Upgrade: PWM Meth: Spec 2+ SMFW: AST 4100: Catless DPs: DCI: IC: Forge DVs: Modifed CDV: V1
Appreciate 0
      05-10-2012, 11:21 AM   #29
themyst
Major General
themyst's Avatar
South Korea
86
Rep
6,602
Posts

 
Drives: E90 335i LCI
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: NYC

iTrader: (8)

Send a message via AIM to themyst
Quote:
Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu View Post
I'm not being defensive. I'm being informative. On dzenno's car, just like every other ASR/RB turbo car I've tuned, I was struggling to hold 500whp to redline. That is a turbo limitation, not a map sensor limitation. When you see an RB turbo car make over 520whp, let me know. No question they can make more torque in the midrange with an upgraded MAP sensor by running more boost. But that won't really help in the 1/4 mile when revs rarely drop below 5500. And if you are getting timing flatlining now, what you see what you get a high boost/higher exhaust back pressure levels.

If you want to continue this topic of discussion, let's start another thread.

Shiv
No ones saying you can make over 500 whp at redline on upgraded twins. My point is at 16 psi at redline there's more in them on THAT SPECIFIC CAR. Your testing would clearly show this.

PS Im not flatlining anymore. check your "Vishnu tech" thread.
__________________
E90 LCI N54 6AT
Appreciate 0
      05-10-2012, 11:25 AM   #30
Velocity26
Resident old fart
Velocity26's Avatar
2
Rep
259
Posts

 
Drives: 2010 335i M-Sport
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Florida

iTrader: (4)

Not sure what air pressure you are running on the slicks but it sounds like a few more pounds could help to resolve some of the issues. A small amount of spin could help you launch without bogging and then the extra pressure will take some of the wander out at the big end.

Good runs and I can't wait to see that small turbo auto hit the track.
Appreciate 0
      05-10-2012, 11:26 AM   #31
Jeff@TopGearSolutions
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor
Jeff@TopGearSolutions's Avatar
United_States
244
Rep
18,329
Posts


 
Drives: C6 Z06, GSXR-750, 09 335i
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: TopGearSolutions.com

iTrader: (32)

Send a message via AIM to Jeff@TopGearSolutions
Nice video, so glad you waited for that beetle to roll ahead cause that thing was a POS and ruining the video. Those slicks are a real work out to drive eh?
Appreciate 0
      05-10-2012, 11:29 AM   #32
shiv@vishnu
Tuner
United_States
702
Rep
17,616
Posts

 
Drives: X1, 335i
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: SF Bay, CA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Velocity26 View Post
Not sure what air pressure you are running on the slicks but it sounds like a few more pounds could help to resolve some of the issues. A small amount of spin could help you launch without bogging and then the extra pressure will take some of the wander out at the big end.

Good runs and I can't wait to see that small turbo auto hit the track.
Thanks for the advice. I'll definitely give that a shot next time out. I was running 14psi tire pressure as suggested by Hoosier. But I suspect this is too low for anything other than a big block Chevy. A big turbo 3l can't make that kind of torque off the line.
Appreciate 0
      05-10-2012, 11:34 AM   #33
Velocity26
Resident old fart
Velocity26's Avatar
2
Rep
259
Posts

 
Drives: 2010 335i M-Sport
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Florida

iTrader: (4)

Ideally, you are running with the minimum tire that you can hook with, anything bigger slows you down at the other end. Based on the little that I have seen, those tires seem a bit overkill for the power you are producing off the line.
Appreciate 0
      05-10-2012, 11:40 AM   #34
shiv@vishnu
Tuner
United_States
702
Rep
17,616
Posts

 
Drives: X1, 335i
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: SF Bay, CA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Velocity26 View Post
Ideally, you are running with the minimum tire that you can hook with, anything bigger slows you down at the other end. Based on the little that I have seen, those tires seem a bit overkill for the power you are producing off the line.
I agree 100%. Unfortunately, going back to drag radials will result in wheelspin. So does it basically boils down to launching with more boost (and clutch slippage) and/or running high tire pressure? AFAIK, there is no smaller/narrower slick available that will fit a 17" rim.
Appreciate 0
      05-10-2012, 12:13 PM   #35
Velocity26
Resident old fart
Velocity26's Avatar
2
Rep
259
Posts

 
Drives: 2010 335i M-Sport
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Florida

iTrader: (4)

You are likely right about the tire sizes, I would guess that you were running the 245 radials and the 275's are even shorter. They might give you a little more grip, but they would cost you a shift. I am sure that would be a net loss.

Good luck.
Appreciate 0
      05-10-2012, 12:25 PM   #36
Rylen
Colonel
Rylen's Avatar
59
Rep
2,775
Posts

 
Drives: White 335i Sedan
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Orange County CA

iTrader: (2)

So what does the RB Turbo run in the final 1/8th and what does ur car run in the final 1/8th?
Appreciate 0
      05-10-2012, 12:28 PM   #37
jpsimon
Team Zissou
jpsimon's Avatar
United_States
164
Rep
9,017
Posts

 
Drives: 2015 STi
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: CT

iTrader: (5)

Shiv are you attending that next roll-on event? It would be awesome to see your single turbo up against a bunch of 335's of various stages of mods to put things in to perspective in a more real-world type of race
__________________
2015 STi / 335xi (solid)
www.datazap.me - fast, free, interactive data log viewing

Appreciate 0
      05-10-2012, 12:41 PM   #38
shiv@vishnu
Tuner
United_States
702
Rep
17,616
Posts

 
Drives: X1, 335i
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: SF Bay, CA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rysandro View Post
So what does the RB Turbo run in the final 1/8th and what does ur car run in the final 1/8th?
I can't say. I've never seen an RB car run at sac. Let alone one with a 6mt in 85F temp. For comparisons, my max tune 520whp ASR turbo set up (which made a bit more top end power than the RB set up i've seen/tuned) trapped at 126.5mph with drag radial in 60F temp. With 28" inch drag slicks and hotter temps, it probably would have done 124-125mph. But that is just an estimate. Would be great to see more upgraded turbo cars run up at Sac. I think the NHRA timing system adjustment last year scared a few people away since trap speeds dropped by 3-4mph. I know at least a few SoCal 335i guys who were unpleasantly surprised when they come up here last to run. They haven't been here since

Last edited by shiv@vishnu; 05-10-2012 at 01:55 PM.
Appreciate 0
      05-10-2012, 12:41 PM   #39
dj_335i
Private
0
Rep
66
Posts

 
Drives: 2008 335i
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Maryland

iTrader: (4)

Nice
__________________
2008 335i - daily driver
2003 Evo - Built by Buschur Racing (fun car)
Appreciate 0
      05-10-2012, 01:37 PM   #40
Irishace
ElevenPointFive
Irishace's Avatar
Canada
32
Rep
2,052
Posts

 
Drives: E92 M3
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Toronto

iTrader: (1)

Nice shiv, congrats on the advancements.
__________________
2008 Jerez Black - 6MT E92 M3
Evolve | H&R | Apex | Exotics Tuning
2015 Pearl Black - DSG MK7 GTI
Burger Motorsports Beta Tester
Appreciate 0
      05-10-2012, 01:54 PM   #41
Rylen
Colonel
Rylen's Avatar
59
Rep
2,775
Posts

 
Drives: White 335i Sedan
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Orange County CA

iTrader: (2)

What size are the tires?
Appreciate 0
      05-10-2012, 02:32 PM   #42
335iTurbo'd
Enlisted Member
1
Rep
34
Posts

 
Drives: Jet Black 335i
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: High Point NC

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu View Post
I agree 100%. Unfortunately, going back to drag radials will result in wheelspin. So does it basically boils down to launching with more boost (and clutch slippage) and/or running high tire pressure? AFAIK, there is no smaller/narrower slick available that will fit a 17" rim.
M&H just made a new size slick (26/8.5/17) that is a bias ply true slick. I will be mounting up a set on the K1's in the near future. May be worth looking into.
Appreciate 0
      05-10-2012, 03:20 PM   #43
E92TTKING
Lieutenant Colonel
E92TTKING's Avatar
Greece
51
Rep
1,758
Posts

 
Drives: e92
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Merica

iTrader: (8)

WOW nice work

E85 map please!
Appreciate 0
      05-10-2012, 03:57 PM   #44
Dave W.
Lieutenant
4
Rep
492
Posts

 
Drives: Porsche 951, 1992 Eagle Talon
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: SF Bay Area

iTrader: (0)

Nice pass!
In the datalogs it looks like you're crossing the line at 6500rpm which is nearly optimal. I think a 26" tire would let you get off the line quicker and hit a better ET, but you might be bouncing off the rev limit as you cross the line. Keeping the 28" tire leaves room for advancement in the future. From what I've seen of your progress with the single kit I think you'll need it. Just add another 20 HP, practice the launch, tweak the tune to match and the times should continue to fall.

BTW thanks for posting the logs, it's great to see you sharing detailed info at this level.
Appreciate 0
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:25 PM.




e90post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST