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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > Procede Rev 2 Users - Ign Correction



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      05-11-2012, 07:42 AM   #1
Tzu
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Procede Rev 2 Users - Ign Correction

Morning all,

I've used meth with my rev2b pretty much as long as I've owned it, with very minor ignition correction. Recently, I've been tuning it for 94oct on the 7-29 maps. I've noticed this peculiarity in the logs. Attached is a log with the ignition correction. My Timing table is very conservative (-6.5 down low, -0.5 up top), yet it seems to bottom at -4 deg correction.

Now correct me if I'm wrong, but I've seen many threads in which it was shown that the rev2 (with logs) is fully capable to retard timing as much as you wish, and advance was limited to +2deg by vishnu. 7-29 maps and even 6-14 maps have upwards of -5.5deg built into the OTS maps, but it seems like the rev2 was limited to a certain amount of retard.

Was this just tied to 6-14 and newer maps?
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      05-11-2012, 10:54 AM   #2
shiv@vishnu
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Older maps had ignition retard limits implemented. All the new aggressive v5 maps have no such limits which is why you'll see up up to 8-9 deg of retard at times with the OTS maps.
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      05-11-2012, 11:14 AM   #3
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Agressive Maps require a rev 2.5. I dont like the agressive maps.

Here is a thread where you clearly demonstrate a -7deg timing pull @ 6500 RPM. Yet it was delivered to the public with only 55% of this timing retard capability? http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=282443

While having the user tuning interface is great, only so much can be done with restrictions. Is there any open firmware/maps available?

edit: Unless the Agressive maps can be loaded onto a rev2, and just disable map 2 ignition advance?

Last edited by Tzu; 05-11-2012 at 11:21 AM.
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      05-11-2012, 11:28 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzu View Post
Agressive Maps require a rev 2.5. I dont like the agressive maps.

Here is a thread where you clearly demonstrate a -7deg timing pull @ 6500 RPM. Yet it was delivered to the public with only 55% of this timing retard capability? http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=282443

While having the user tuning interface is great, only so much can be done with restrictions. Is there any open firmware/maps available?

edit: Unless the Agressive maps can be loaded onto a rev2, and just disable map 2 ignition advance?
If you go back far enough (pre 2010), there will be no ignition retard limits in place. That post you cited was from 2009. Before user tuning was even an option. If you want to have user tuning flexibility with regards to ignition timing and fuel, you will need to update to a rev2.5. Older maps are not intended to be user tuned beyond the user adjustable menu.
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      05-11-2012, 11:37 AM   #5
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Can you point me to where thats stated? I was just going by the read-me included with 7-29:

Mapping/Firmware changes:

These maps are very similar, perforamance-wise, to the 6-14 maps. But they have been modifed to allow user programming/tuning when used with the new User Tuning Interface v5.2 Software.

So really, your website should read "full ignition control, from -4deg to +2deg"? Also, regarding a fueling thread maybe a year ago, you stated it was just fine to copy the AFR/OL table from the Agressive maps to the rev2, with slight variance in setpoint due to hardware changes.
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      05-11-2012, 11:41 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzu View Post
Can you point me to where thats stated? I was just going by the read-me included with 7-29:

Mapping/Firmware changes:

These maps are very similar, perforamance-wise, to the 6-14 maps. But they have been modifed to allow user programming/tuning when used with the new User Tuning Interface v5.2 Software.

So really, your website should read "full ignition control, from -4deg to +2deg"? Also, regarding a fueling thread maybe a year ago, you stated it was just fine to copy the AFR/OL table from the Agressive maps to the rev2, with slight variance in setpoint due to hardware changes.
The website is not wrong, the PROcede does have full ignition control your just too cheap to upgrade to better hardware and new maps.
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      05-11-2012, 11:42 AM   #7
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lol at this guy again.
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      05-11-2012, 11:44 AM   #8
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I figured you missed me since you still have my post in your signature out of context. Seriously though, just upgrade to 2.5 and be done with it. The hardware is better for fueling, there is more power available and its safer. Your hardware is out of date an obsolete, like a JB3.
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      05-11-2012, 11:48 AM   #9
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Tzu, I don't know what more to say. The rev2, when "unlocked" for user tuning had adjustment range limits to keep customers from getting themselves into trouble. With the rev2.5, those ranges were increased which was made possible by both hardware updates on the board and updates to the firmware that, understandably so, we're only tested on updated boards.
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      05-11-2012, 11:51 AM   #10
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Just going by the threads here, the fueling between the rev2b and the rev2.5 is identical as the it was just a fueling resistor change, you must be thinking of a 2a. Also, all else being equal (OL fuel, AFR, boost), the power is the same and the extra power comes from ignnition advance. I personally don't want to use that feature. Where is your discrepancy?
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      05-11-2012, 11:57 AM   #11
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Shiv, fair enoguh. I'll get a 2.5 one of these days. But you should probably make it evident to the rest of the forum that the rev2 "shouldnt be mapped beyond user adjustables" because like myself, many others here have remapped tables on these units. I wouldn't have done so if it were made clear. Even though you said I could when I asked. Just twice as confused now is all.
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      05-11-2012, 12:03 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzu View Post
Just going by the threads here, the fueling between the rev2b and the rev2.5 is identical as the it was just a fueling resistor change, you must be thinking of a 2a. Also, all else being equal (OL fuel, AFR, boost), the power is the same and the extra power comes from ignnition advance. I personally don't want to use that feature. Where is your discrepancy?
There is no descrepency, just a lack of understanding. The ignition circuit upgrade implemented in the rev2.5/3 units allowed for better replication of the crank angle sensor (faster rise time of the leading edge). Which allows us to do things with the newer board that we could do with the older board. The board update costs $50 unfortunately. It may or may no be worth it to you. But most users seem to prefer v5 aggressive maps over the old v4 maps.
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      05-11-2012, 12:06 PM   #13
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I'm gonna stay out of this fight, but I've driven a car loaded with the aggressive maps and I think the ability to run those maps is more than worth the upgrade to 2.5.

I know that going to Rev. 3 may seem like an unnecessary expense if you already have a Procede, but I think Rev. 2.5 is only like a $50 upgrade, right? Absolutely worth it.
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      05-11-2012, 12:12 PM   #14
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Shiv, that quote wasnt for you, but I'll take your word for it as I'm not an electrical guy. Its unfortunate you nixed the DIY. But I'll have to wait to order until you announce whether idividual cylinder monitoring is rev3 only or both rev2.5 and rev3.

Agressive maps arent for me. That topic has been covered by people mostly banned now. Though the boost curve is quite nice, which will require some ignition retard. Thats really what all rev2 users should replicate.
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      05-11-2012, 12:14 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brey335i View Post
I'm gonna stay out of this fight, but I've driven a car loaded with the aggressive maps and I think the ability to run those maps is more than worth the upgrade to 2.5.

I know that going to Rev. 3 may seem like an unnecessary expense if you already have a Procede, but I think Rev. 2.5 is only like a $50 upgrade, right? Absolutely worth it.
No one is fighting. I just thought it was odd that the 6-14/7-11/7-29 maps call for -5.XX ignition retard in certain points when the unit can only deliver -4deg. And to clarify that "user tuning" only means user adjustables.

I will upgrade to a 2.5 at some point, just seeing how far the 2 can take the parameters.
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      05-11-2012, 02:06 PM   #16
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They will send the 2.5 with a deposit so you can swap easily. I can't see indvisual cyl only for rev 3 since its just CAN data... I think.

You can just port over timing and boost tables and run your own map. Im scared of the aggressive maps also
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