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      05-24-2012, 07:20 PM   #111
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SportAuto had the BOSS outlap the ZCP M3 at the Hockenheim Ring, MT almost beat the M3 with the 5.0 (common sense prevails as to what the BOSS would do at Streets vs M3 since it kills the GT at that track), there's your own LL list, the infamous LS lap....

Other than that, I can't think of any off the top of my head.

And then there's Evo with the only results in the other direction. But it's entirely possible the M3 has tracks it's faster at.

Anyway, this thread is about the 13 Shelby, which crushes all we've been talking about, save the Z06, GT-R, Turbo S, etc...
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      05-24-2012, 11:42 PM   #112
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I'd take a Boss 302 over a M3 any day and thats because I know how much of a bargain it is for the performance you can get out of it compared to the more expense, higher maintenance M3.

The GT500 is being delivered to it's owners now and I think its 3 or 4 people so far but it might be a few more than that. The ZL1 and '13 GT500 are both a hell of a bargain for what you can get out of them. But the '13 GT500 is on the top and will be since GM just added technology already out there while the '13 GT500 was redone correctly. They are making over 600rwhp right now while the ZL1 is making ~480 (auto) to ~515rwhp (manual). I'd rather have the '13 GT500 than any Camaro, I can't stand that stupid plastic piece that runs from 1 door across the dash and to the other door plus the tiny trunk opening.

The ZL1 and '13 GT500 far surpass the M3 except in interior design and I only mentioned the interior because thats the only thing BMW people seem to argue when they are faced against a faster, less expensive car. Hate all you want, but there is always going to be someone faster and better stock for stock......for less money.
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      05-25-2012, 12:02 AM   #113
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The ZL1 and '13 GT500 far surpass the M3 except in interior design and I only mentioned the interior because thats the only thing BMW people seem to argue when they are faced against a faster, less expensive car. Hate all you want, but there is always going to be someone faster and better stock for stock......for less money.
I don't hate the Mustang at all, actually very much respect the Boss and GT500. But there are other aspects of the M3 I enjoy more than just the interior. Some just enjoy the driving dynamics more the Boss, the steering feel is much better in the M3. In the Boss the weight is still more noticeable, the M3 does feel lighter on its feet. Do these aspects show up in lap time, not for most people. But they are still relevant factors for some that enjoy the M3. The dual-clutch transmission or high revving V8 could also factor in for some when purchasing. Since the E9x M3 has been out since 2008, the entry point to get into a cpo M3 is much cheaper. For some spending the extra $15k for a new M3 just isn't that big of a deal. On the other hand I see no reason to hate on anyone choosing the less expensive equally awesome Boss or GT500.
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      05-25-2012, 01:27 AM   #114
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SportAuto had the BOSS outlap the ZCP M3 at the Hockenheim Ring, MT almost beat the M3 with the 5.0 (common sense prevails as to what the BOSS would do at Streets vs M3 since it kills the GT at that track), there's your own LL list, the infamous LS lap....

Other than that, I can't think of any off the top of my head.

And then there's Evo with the only results in the other direction. But it's entirely possible the M3 has tracks it's faster at.

Anyway, this thread is about the 13 Shelby, which crushes all we've been talking about, save the Z06, GT-R, Turbo S, etc...
There's no auto sport comparison of the M3 vs the Boss 302. The M3 wasnt included in the las llightning laps test.
You're using lap times taken on different days and by different drivers,that makes sense especially when both cars are within .8 sec at hockenheim. Using that list the new C63 AMG coupe is also faster than the M3 and Porsche Cayman S.

C&D test taken on the same day and using the same driver at VIR shows the M3 to be faster than the new C63 AMG coupe but we prolly should disregard that as well.

So this sea of comparisons of the M3 vs Boss 302 is a fiction of your imagination.

If you've ever autocrossed or road raced you'd know different days= different density altitude,tire pressure and that can vary the times by as much as .8 sec
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      05-25-2012, 01:55 AM   #115
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Maybe the M3 would be better compared if we were not ridiculed by the US NHSTA being so stupid and not letting in the light weight M3 that is in Europe and other countries plus all the other nifty and great performance cars other countries have that we can't get.

The M3 is a great car no doubt, but with BMW not upping the performance none to little makes no sense to me. I guess they know their customers just want that badge, I suppose. I wanted an M3 but for the (new) price, I could have something else and not worry about maintenance cost or repair cost.

I can't wait to see what the '13 GT500 will do with DRs. I'm betting low, low 11s and I really want to see what it can do on a road course like VIR since we know what the "official" times for the ZL1 is that GM did.
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      05-25-2012, 02:11 AM   #116
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For what its worth the E92 M3 has owned the Boss 302R in Continental Tire Series. M3 has won the championship the last two years and is leading the championship again this year.

Grand-Am had to give the M3 a competition adjustment, limiting rpms to 8250. Rather silly since the Boss has a full liter of displacement advantage.
Meanwhile the M3 continues to rack up wins and championships with its overpriced underwhelming performance.
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      05-25-2012, 08:27 AM   #117
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What is really funny is that most of you are arguing over magazine test times. My car is faster than your car in this test, etc. My bet is that less than 10% of you could actually come close to matching the magazines test times in any car.
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      05-25-2012, 09:25 AM   #118
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What is really funny is that most of you are arguing over magazine test times. My car is faster than your car in this test, etc. My bet is that less than 10% of you could actually come close to matching the magazines test times in any car.
Wrong. I have beaten many magazines times on the drag strip for numerous cars. With proper prep and conditions, they are easily beaten.
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      05-26-2012, 07:04 AM   #119
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Wrong. I have beaten many magazines times on the drag strip for numerous cars. With proper prep and conditions, they are easily beaten.
he was referring to a road course. and he's right.
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      05-26-2012, 03:14 PM   #120
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he was referring to a road course. and he's right.
Yeah especially watching the SA guy at Hockenheim. Dunno if the camera angle made it seem more dramatic, but I don't have those kind of cojones.
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      05-27-2012, 01:02 PM   #121
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What is really funny is that most of you are arguing over magazine test times. My car is faster than your car in this test, etc. My bet is that less than 10% of you could actually come close to matching the magazines test times in any car.
I made this same point a few months ago when people were on the "GTR vs Porsche" debate, and almost got my eyes clawed out...

... very true point though. None of us are winning FIA championships, or beating any Ring times.
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      05-27-2012, 02:13 PM   #122
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I made this same point a few months ago when people were on the "GTR vs Porsche" debate, and almost got my eyes clawed out...

... very true point though. None of us are winning FIA championships, or beating any Ring times.
If we are comparing cars, the most accurate information we got is the magazines times.
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      05-28-2012, 05:48 PM   #123
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      05-28-2012, 05:54 PM   #124
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Am I the only person who think 11.6 @ 125mph quarter mile is not impressive for a car with 662hp? The 911 Turbo and GTR both go 10.9 127 and 11.1 124 respectively (both Motortrend figures to make it even) with more then 100hp less. I'm sure the track times (real track, with turns) will be even worse. For the 65k, it's definitely a performance bargain. But compared to the big boys, it's still slow.
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      05-28-2012, 06:31 PM   #125
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Am I the only person who think 11.6 @ 125mph quarter mile is not impressive for a car with 662hp? The 911 Turbo and GTR both go 10.9 127 and 11.1 124 respectively (both Motortrend figures to make it even) with more then 100hp less. I'm sure the track times (real track, with turns) will be even worse. For the 65k, it's definitely a performance bargain. But compared to the big boys, it's still slow.

Are you serious? Those cars are both AWD and both have DCT.
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      05-28-2012, 07:01 PM   #126
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Are you serious? Those cars are both AWD and both have DCT.
And your point? They're both sports cars that have less power. The GT500 has more then 100 hp and also has launch control. 3.5 0-60 isn't all that either for a car with launch control for that matter. I spec'd one out on ford.com and my total came to over $70k. Thats almost GTR money
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      05-28-2012, 07:15 PM   #127
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And your point? They're both sports cars that have less power. The GT500 has more then 100 hp and also has launch control. 3.5 0-60 isn't all that either for a car with launch control for that matter. I spec'd one out on ford.com and my total came to over $70k. Thats almost GTR money
My point is that AWD and DC transmissions help immensely with traction and getting from gear to gear then RWD and a manual tranny. You can have your porsche turbo and the gtr. Not everyone likes those kinds of car. And launch control is no that bid a deal.
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      05-28-2012, 07:35 PM   #128
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Am I the only person who think 11.6 @ 125mph quarter mile is not impressive for a car with 662hp? The 911 Turbo and GTR both go 10.9 127 and 11.1 124 respectively (both Motortrend figures to make it even) with more then 100hp less. I'm sure the track times (real track, with turns) will be even worse. For the 65k, it's definitely a performance bargain. But compared to the big boys, it's still slow.
This car thing must be new to you.

You're comparing cars that have huge traction advantages accredited to their AWD and, at least with the 997, huge weight advantage. Couple this with their DCTs which essentially eliminate any skip in power delivery and have absurdly aggressive lower gear ratios, and you have cars that should beat any comparably powered (or even much more powerful) RWD car with similarly sized contact patches and compounds...at least to the 1/4 mile mark. A 1/2 mile and full mile race would be different.
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      05-28-2012, 07:38 PM   #129
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This car thing must be new to you.

You're comparing cars that have huge traction advantages accredited to their AWD and, at least with the 997, huge weight advantage. Couple this with their DCTs which essentially eliminate any skip in power delivery and have absurdly aggressive lower gear ratios, and you have cars that should beat any comparably powered (or even much more powerful) RWD car with similarly sized contact patches and compounds...at least to the 1/4 mile mark. A 1/2 mile and full mile race would be different.
So then, you roll up in your GT500 next to a GTR, and you'll say "Sorry sir, you have a DCT and AWD"
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      05-28-2012, 08:45 PM   #130
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Am I the only person who think 11.6 @ 125mph quarter mile is not impressive for a car with 662hp? The 911 Turbo and GTR both go 10.9 127 and 11.1 124 respectively (both Motortrend figures to make it even) with more then 100hp less. I'm sure the track times (real track, with turns) will be even worse. For the 65k, it's definitely a performance bargain. But compared to the big boys, it's still slow.
Just comparing this car to the big boys is in itself a major accomplishment.

I'd rather have the comfort, sound of that v8, funfactor and look of this car than either of the gtr or the 911 turbo for the price.
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      05-28-2012, 08:48 PM   #131
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So then, you roll up in your GT500 next to a GTR, and you'll say "Sorry sir, you have a DCT and AWD"
No.

I say nothing to those faggots.
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      05-28-2012, 09:09 PM   #132
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Just comparing this car to the big boys is in itself a major accomplishment.

I'd rather have the comfort, sound of that v8, funfactor and look of this car than either of the gtr or the 911 turbo for the price.
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No.

I say nothing to those faggots.
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