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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > A STOCK 335i beats the RS4 around VIR!!!



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      06-29-2007, 09:22 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by S4to335 View Post
it did..it did...now the 335 is going against F111 jets.
I heard they're having to bring the SR-71 out of retirement to race it because it's beating everything so bad
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      06-29-2007, 09:28 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by sdiver68 View Post
Racers have a creed...lap times talk and everything else walks. Hope you have some good walking shoes!
Oh my bad, so why don't share your lap times

Sorry but I guess this forum is starting to run out of space because everybody heads are getting so big. Perhaps Car and Driver should move away from VIR, this is the second time they've raced there and in my opinion the second controversial result page. I'm sorry but physics owns you, the 335i is a nice car, but seriously the faster, lighter, more powerful, better handling, and better braking Z4 M should win, I guess just not in Car and Driver and VIR. Like I said I won't be re-newing my subscription if they are gonna print BS like this. Something just doesn't add up. I know you guys love your cars, but come on common f*cking sense.
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      06-29-2007, 09:34 AM   #25
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Oh wow, they have a 997 Turbo running similiar times as Shelby GT500, ok that's it, time to switch to Road and Track or Motor Trend. Car and Driver is done with me, enough of this BS. 335i the best all around car in the world, LOL, I wonder how much BMW paid them for that quote, LOL. I never knew Car and Driver was so corrupt, I guess with less people reading magazines these days, they have to make money somehow.
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      06-29-2007, 10:11 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by 3000ways View Post
So let me get this straight the porky, less powerful, slower, softer braking, and softer suspension 335i beat a Z4 M around a track by 1 second. Wow, I am so glad my subscription to Car and Driver ends this month, because I will not be asking for another 12 months. I mean I've read some BS in my life, but now Car and Driver thinks they can re-invent physics. They must of forgot to release the parking brake on the Z4 M.
You're not renewing your subscription because of one article?
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      06-29-2007, 10:30 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by 3000ways View Post
Oh my bad, so why don't share your lap times

Sorry but I guess this forum is starting to run out of space because everybody heads are getting so big. Perhaps Car and Driver should move away from VIR, this is the second time they've raced there and in my opinion the second controversial result page. I'm sorry but physics owns you, the 335i is a nice car, but seriously the faster, lighter, more powerful, better handling, and better braking Z4 M should win, I guess just not in Car and Driver and VIR. Like I said I won't be re-newing my subscription if they are gonna print BS like this. Something just doesn't add up. I know you guys love your cars, but come on common f*cking sense.
I don't think you understand all the pysics involved. How are the brakes better in Z4 M when compared to 335i? I cannot see how the difference in the brakes would be shown in these lap times for Z4 M's advantage. If you think otherwise, please explain.

As another example, there is much more into a car's handling than how harsh its suspension is... etc.
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      06-29-2007, 10:34 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by 3000ways View Post
Oh my bad, so why don't share your lap times

Sorry but I guess this forum is starting to run out of space because everybody heads are getting so big. Perhaps Car and Driver should move away from VIR, this is the second time they've raced there and in my opinion the second controversial result page. I'm sorry but physics owns you, the 335i is a nice car, but seriously the faster, lighter, more powerful, better handling, and better braking Z4 M should win, I guess just not in Car and Driver and VIR. Like I said I won't be re-newing my subscription if they are gonna print BS like this. Something just doesn't add up. I know you guys love your cars, but come on common f*cking sense.
I've been on a track in a 335i with a Z4m Coupe and M3's. Have you? Case closed
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      06-29-2007, 10:37 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by lawdude View Post
You're not renewing your subscription because of one article?
Not just that article, but countless numbers of other articles by Car and Driver. I suspected their corruptness for a while now. Look I give it to the 335i, it is a great car, if they would have left it at the 335i beating the RS4 around the track I might have said ok, still far reaching, but the RS4 is a heavy weight pig. But the M Z4 is really stretching it, sorry. I believe that certain magazines do recieve payments for positive reviews and positive numbers for certain cars. I know the Z4 and 335i are both BMW products, but the 3 series is BMW's bread and butter, and the Z series in its current form is on its way out. I mean why is this so hard to believe, do you really honestly think a 335i is a performance vehicle than a M Z4 Coupe, come on really???
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      06-29-2007, 10:43 AM   #30
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Well, the rs4 times for the nubrergring are within a couple seconds of the 335i, unless you count the 8:12 time that was done with the optional 9k ceramic brakes or whatever. This is not that weird. The z4 m is also within a couple seconds on the nurbergring. All it would take is a track that favored one for it to get the win, or a driver, or a higher elevation where the na motors would lose more power.
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      06-29-2007, 10:46 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by sdiver68 View Post
I've been on a track in a 335i with a Z4m Coupe and M3's. Have you? Case closed
How is case closed, because you been on a track with those cars, come douche bag the 335i is a nice car, but stop making it out to be more than it really is. It is not a better performance car than a Z4 M coupe. The greatest all around vehicle, LOL C&D. What makes the 335i so special, because it is a luxury sport sedan that runs low to mid 13s stock, um so does the G37 and IS350. Or because with this Procede and Exhaust which costs well over $2,000 get's you 70 to 100 extra whp and a butt load of torque, yet you still can't brake 110mph trap speeds. Please when BMW released the 335i I was very happy, finally BMW was jumping back into the FI'd club, but I never imagined that this would attract such gullible and conceited owners to BMW crowd. Look at the price tag of the 335i, look at the stock power numbers, it's just an E46 M3 replacement that responds a little better to mods, that's great, but damn not something to bust a nutt over.
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      06-29-2007, 10:46 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by 3000ways View Post
Not just that article, but countless numbers of other articles by Car and Driver. I suspected their corruptness for a while now. Look I give it to the 335i, it is a great car, if they would have left it at the 335i beating the RS4 around the track I might have said ok, still far reaching, but the RS4 is a heavy weight pig. But the M Z4 is really stretching it, sorry. I believe that certain magazines do recieve payments for positive reviews and positive numbers for certain cars. I know the Z4 and 335i are both BMW products, but the 3 series is BMW's bread and butter, and the Z series in its current form is on its way out. I mean why is this so hard to believe, do you really honestly think a 335i is a performance vehicle than a M Z4 Coupe, come on really???
And you seem to think that 335i is not as fast as Z4 just because Z4 is M? Everyone should know that 335i is faster depending on the track. Take a look e.g. here:

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...8&highlight=z4
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      06-29-2007, 10:51 AM   #33
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Lots of stuff affects lap times guys...take this all with a grain of salt. I have tons of track time...the C&D guys didnt get into whether or not it was the same driver, what the tires were on each car? Elevation of the track? I think VIR is near sea level..but I am not sure. I personally thought my car pushed like a bitch on the track..but I didnt get out and alter my tire temps like I should have (it was frickin cold ...39 degrees, snowing, with a 20-25 mph wind, and I was lazy). We all feel like the 335i bhp is understated...it is balanced well...and driven in the right hands..it probably can turn some decent times at any track. Remember the other car article where the 335i was at Laguna? It didnt fare that well there. Maybe it is more suited to VIR, who knows. All I do know is that I like my 335i pretty well. It is missing a limited slip differential...and I bought one for it..(now I just need to get the frickin thing installed by someone who knows what the hell they are doing).

Ok...off the podium now...someone elses turn.
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      06-29-2007, 10:52 AM   #34
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3000ways you should do a little more research on the 335 bud.

It weighs 54 lbs more than the Mcoupe,has the M3 zhp brakes stock,Makes more power than the 300 rating (stock cars have broke 280whp)and for the last but not least part 50/50 weight balance.

also there havnt been and V2 maps at the 1/4 mile yet,ill bet you 100 bucks they break 110 mph

the 335 is 2 seconds slower than the e46 around the ring.What do you have to say about that?

that is also with a one wheel peel open diff
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      06-29-2007, 11:21 AM   #35
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3000ways you should do a little more research on the 335 bud.

It weighs 54 lbs more than the Mcoupe,has the M3 zhp brakes stock,Makes more power than the 300 rating (stock cars have broke 280whp)and for the last but not least part 50/50 weight balance.

also there havnt been and V2 maps at the 1/4 mile yet,ill bet you 100 bucks they break 110 mph

the 335 is 2 seconds slower than the e46 around the ring.What do you have to say about that?

that is also with a one wheel peel open diff
No dude perhaps it is you that should do some more research on your car. Wrong guy your talking too, I don't type sh*t out my ass, I am what you would call a true car fanatic and I always do my research there buddy.

The M Coupe is much lighter than 54lbs than a 335i. I don't know where your getting your info from but it is wrong. The M Z4 weighs in around 3200-3250Lbs the 335i weighs in at over 3500lbs. So how is that a weight difference of 54lbs. Did C&D get that figure, didn't I just say the magazine is BS.

Also I realize the 335i is underrated, by about a good 20 to 25hp depending upon your conversion. Still the Z4 M Coupe has a greater power to weight ratio making it a more powerful car. Now you guys are gonna sit here and say a 335i is a quicker and faster car stock for stock than a Z4 M coupe

Also I take back what I said about the 335i responding better to mods than a E46 M3. How can I state that, when in all honesty the 335i hasn't proven a damn thing, other than get good power from a tune, ding dong, welcome to world of FI'd. Tunes have been making great power on turbo cars for years, glad BMW finally decided to join the turbo crowd again. You see my beef is I keeping hearing all this absolute BS about the BMW 335i having all this f*cking potential, says who? Vishnu? Oh ok, he has nothing at stake. So many people ready to claim the 335i as some f*cking tuning king, when it hasn't even made any legitimate claims to the crown. I mean there is still so much we don't know, how much power can the stock block hold? How much boost can the stock turbos hold and what is their limit? How reliable will all these cars be down the road? Why aren't power numbers and 1/4 mile times matching up? Also what is so damn impressive about the V2 map. It will probably cost over $1,500 a lone and add the exhaust your approaching close to $3,000 to trap over 110mph when stock your already trapping in the mid 100s. I am suppose to be amazed by these achievements. Sorry you gullible and conceited 335i owners, you have a long way to go and a whole lot to prove before you step foot in the Kings of Tuning court. Enough is enough believe what you want, but you can't pull a fast one over me, not C&D and definitly not Vishnu. Maybe we will talk more when you guys hit over 600whp on the stock block, but last time I checked not single one of you has even made over 400whp, so I guess it will be a while tell we talk again.
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      06-29-2007, 11:42 AM   #36
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3000ways, you are right at that tuning efforts so far are pitiful in comparison to e.g. Evo. Only RD is offering turbo upgrades atm. and their power level is unknown. Hope this will change in time.
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      06-29-2007, 12:04 PM   #37
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No dude perhaps it is you that should do some more research on your car. Wrong guy your talking too, I don't type sh*t out my ass, I am what you would call a true car fanatic and I always do my research there buddy.

The M Coupe is much lighter than 54lbs than a 335i. I don't know where your getting your info from but it is wrong. The M Z4 weighs in around 3200-3250Lbs the 335i weighs in at over 3500lbs. So how is that a weight difference of 54lbs. Did C&D get that figure, didn't I just say the magazine is BS.

Also I realize the 335i is underrated, by about a good 20 to 25hp depending upon your conversion. Still the Z4 M Coupe has a greater power to weight ratio making it a more powerful car. Now you guys are gonna sit here and say a 335i is a quicker and faster car stock for stock than a Z4 M coupe

Also I take back what I said about the 335i responding better to mods than a E46 M3. How can I state that, when in all honesty the 335i hasn't proven a damn thing, other than get good power from a tune, ding dong, welcome to world of FI'd. Tunes have been making great power on turbo cars for years, glad BMW finally decided to join the turbo crowd again. You see my beef is I keeping hearing all this absolute BS about the BMW 335i having all this f*cking potential, says who? Vishnu? Oh ok, he has nothing at stake. So many people ready to claim the 335i as some f*cking tuning king, when it hasn't even made any legitimate claims to the crown. I mean there is still so much we don't know, how much power can the stock block hold? How much boost can the stock turbos hold and what is their limit? How reliable will all these cars be down the road? Why aren't power numbers and 1/4 mile times matching up? Also what is so damn impressive about the V2 map. It will probably cost over $1,500 a lone and add the exhaust your approaching close to $3,000 to trap over 110mph when stock your already trapping in the mid 100s. I am suppose to be amazed by these achievements. Sorry you gullible and conceited 335i owners, you have a long way to go and a whole lot to prove before you step foot in the Kings of Tuning court. Enough is enough believe what you want, but you can't pull a fast one over me, not C&D and definitly not Vishnu. Maybe we will talk more when you guys hit over 600whp on the stock block, but last time I checked not single one of you has even made over 400whp, so I guess it will be a while tell we talk again.
When I ran at the track last week, my PROcede 335i (v1.40) ran 13.097 sec. @ 106.67mph (w/ a 1.977sec. 60' time), while a modded EVO's best run was 13.7xx sec., and a stock Pontiac GTO 6.0L ran 14.xx. On a cooler, less humid day with better track conditions, I know I can get into the mid-high 12s...not to mention when I'm running PROcede v2.0. :rocks:

I've run against other modded EVO's before, and unless their tuned with turbos running @ 20psi and some other crazy sh!t, a PROcede 335i will walk the EVOs all day long; I guess mostly b/c of the 335i's much higher TQ. If you don't believe me, ask all these others guys on here like Walked U, CEA 3, Max Boost, JonMartin, etc.

btw -- although there's no doubt that the EVO is a great track car and a fast stock car out of the box (and even faster when modded), it's still just an econobox Mitsu, and really shouldn't be compared with a BMW 335i; these 2 cars are just not in the same class...sorry, but true.
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      06-29-2007, 12:09 PM   #38
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Wrong guy your talking too, I don't type sh*t out my ass, I am what you would call a true car fanatic and I always do my research there buddy.
You are what I call a bench racer. Don't worry, most "car fanatics" are until they get race experience, then everything they thought they knew turns into geeez I have a lot to learn.
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      06-29-2007, 12:20 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by sflgator View Post
btw -- although there's no doubt that the EVO is a great track car and a fast stock car out of the box (and even faster when modded), it's still just an econobox Mitsu, and really shouldn't be compared with a BMW 335i;
Errr, I think you just did And while at it, we are far from 11s when some Evos run 10s. No matter how many "would" or "could" words we use.
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      06-29-2007, 12:36 PM   #40
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um ok minus all the ricer talk and get back to me about BMW using the competition brakes on the 335 and having 50/50 weigh balance and running only 2 seconds slower than the e46 around the ring.

you are doubting BMWs blocks?The e36 M3 wich is NA can make over 650whp before you start bending rods.There are plaenty of M3s making over 600whp with just a head gasket.go take a peak over at bimmerforums.

The e46 M3 is over 700whp with the horsepower freaks turbo kit and that is on A STOCK BLOCK.

Now back to the 335.This car came turboed from the get go.I have read in a few mags that BMW went out of there way making this one of there strongest engine ever.I am searching for a few good reads on it now.


you are pissed because the car isnt doing that well in the 1/4 why don;t you go try and launch a one wheel peel car with 400 ft lbs at 1.5k and get back to us.

I think the best 1/4 mile time so far was a car that launched in second gear lol

on top no one has the v2 maps yet and no one has any from aa either.What will you say when some one breaks 114 with just a tune and exh?

if you were a true car fanatic you would see how well ballanced the 335 is because it keeps right up with the (as you call it)way lighter M coupe.

If the 335 had the same gearing as the M coupe and the lsd it would of embassed it even more.
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      06-29-2007, 12:42 PM   #41
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He's right in a lot of issues, mainly unknown tuning potential and err.."king of the furious and fastest street crown, title" or whatever. Personally, I agree with you in that the z4m should be the clear winner, in any track event. Thank you for pointing out the obvious, at least for those of us that live down here on earth. And yes, there are far more reputable cars out there with loads more tuning potential and history to back them up, yada, yada, yada....

But what I don't understand is why the rage? On a 335 forum no less? I've been on numerous car forums and every single one of them is going to have some kind of pride(ignorant or not) and blind love for their cars. It's human nature to stand by what you purchased. The way I see it, the majority of this crowd here is not to claim king of the streets, but to appreciate a BMW that finally caters to the huge tuning world. And so far in it's very short inception, it's getting some great results.

IMO there are different cars with different fortes. Personally, I admire the EVO tremendously for it's performance, but I wouldn't be caught dead in one as a daily driver. Now you might say the same about the 335. But I guess I'm on the same page as C&D where we feel like the combination of everyday userability combined with above average sportiness, in a "not breaking your bank" price range, is a decent candidate for such a bold statement as "one of the best cars in the world".
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      06-29-2007, 12:47 PM   #42
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You are what I call a bench racer. Don't worry, most "car fanatics" are until they get race experience, then everything they thought they knew turns into geeez I have a lot to learn.
+1
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      06-29-2007, 12:49 PM   #43
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You're not renewing your subscription because of one article?
reality check.... american auto magazines are at best as questionable as is their current car lineup (save a few ofcourse ). I think I am very happy picking up a copy of EVO, CAR and Top Gear from my neighborhood Barnes and Nobles/ Borders. Quality reads for a quality price!!! ~enough said~
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      06-29-2007, 12:54 PM   #44
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How is case closed, because you been on a track with those cars, come douche bag the 335i is a nice car, but stop making it out to be more than it really is. It is not a better performance car than a Z4 M coupe. The greatest all around vehicle, LOL C&D. What makes the 335i so special, because it is a luxury sport sedan that runs low to mid 13s stock, um so does the G37 and IS350. Or because with this Procede and Exhaust which costs well over $2,000 get's you 70 to 100 extra whp and a butt load of torque, yet you still can't brake 110mph trap speeds. Please when BMW released the 335i I was very happy, finally BMW was jumping back into the FI'd club, but I never imagined that this would attract such gullible and conceited owners to BMW crowd. Look at the price tag of the 335i, look at the stock power numbers, it's just an E46 M3 replacement that responds a little better to mods, that's great, but damn not something to bust a nutt over.
I looks like you have no idea what you are talking about. It not all about speed and hp. VIR is a very technical track where in some sections power is absolutely irrelevant.

Before you talk shit you should go there and see for yourself what kind of times you can get in your ricer EVO.

Also, for more information from a couple of people that have some pexperience with VIR go here and check post number 7. The guy can offer a good explanation. This is a very difficult track.

Now go back to your ricer forums.
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