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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > Introducing the VTT Stage 2+ Hybrid turbochargers 627WHP / 625WTQ



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      09-04-2014, 09:41 AM   #1
Vargasturbotech
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Introducing the VTT Stage 2+ Hybrid turbochargers 627WHP / 625WTQ

We are proud to introduce the latest in our line of N54 turbocharger products the VTT Stage 2+ hybrid turbochargers. We take our already robust stage 2 design, and add the highest flowing wheels in the TD04 family to provide the ultimate in N54 stock frame power potential. There is not another stock frame turbo option on the market that can match the power or reliability of our stage 2 turbos. How can we claim this? Lets break down what has become standard in our stage 2 turbos that a lot of people have overlooked.

1. We are the only N54 stock frame turbo manufacture offering billet wheel choices from 14T all the way up to our newest editions which use the massive 20T wheel

2. Our 9 blade Garrett turbine wheel. This is not a MHI 12 blade wheel thrown into CAD and had 3 blades knocked off it ala the Kamak or Kinugawa 9 blade TDD4 turbines you will find out there being used in other applications. This is THE Garrett GT series turbine used in all the fastest spooling and highest flowing Garrett GT and GTX turbochargers. What we did was simply take the Garrett design and have it shrunk into TD04L dimensions, offering the highest flow, fastest spool, and best aero of any TD04 turbine wheel on the market. Keep in mind we have been using this design since 2012 on all our stage 2's we are not now just jumping on the 9 blade band wagon.

3. To combat the inherent oiling issues these stock frame turbos have been faced with, we went back to the drawing board and after numerous changes we now offer DUAL piston rings in all our of stage 2 turbine wheels, this is similar technology you will see in such turbos are Borg Warner EFR, etc. This extra piston ring provides another barrier to keep exhaust out during those high Back pressure pulls, and in turn keep that oil in, helping improve life even under extreme conditions

4. As you already know each and every stage 2 turbocharger comes with an upgraded TD04 thrust and thrust parts to provide extra oiling and surface area to provide longer life, as the thrust take 90% of the abuse inside a turbocharger

5. The biggest compressor wheel options the TD04 family has to offer, all while retaining your stock bolt in fitment, simply unbolt your stockers or other hybrid turbos, and bolt these in, no modifications required

Pricing is as follows:

Stage 2+ with Billet 19T Compressor Wheel option $3599 - WHP potential 590-615WHP*
Stage 2+ with Billet 20T Compressor Wheel option $3699 - WHP potential 600-650WHP*
15 degree clip to 9 blade turbine option $300 (this is for people looking for maximum flow and power, will result in slightly slower spool)

Core charge still applies: $300 for 335LHD, $600 for all other models

We are considering a group buy in the next few days offering a group buy discount if interest is high enough

Also YES there will be a trade in for people who already have our stage 2 turbos or RB's, drop us an email for details!

Estimated shipping on these is 30-60 days

*Please note all power figures are estimated AND done so with PROPER complimenting upgrades, tuning, and FUEL. Running these turbos on pump gas only will net you a little more power over a standard Stage 2 set up, but not much. You need octane to bring the true potential from these turbos

All the testing you see below was done using:

Turbos: VTT Stage 2+ with Clipped turbines, and Billet 20T compressor wheels
Fuel: 100% E85
Tuning: Tuned by Dzenno of Protuning Freaks using the Cobb AP FLASH ONLY


Final Pull was 27 psi down low tapering to 24.5 psi at redline

Please direct any and all questions to: Sales@vargasturbo.com



Lets get into the dyno results and logs. We would like to start out by saying, we stopped short on the dyno because we had a fueling issue, as I did not come prepared, we had our Shotgun set to its lowest voltage setting, and as we brought power in the top end up to the 600WHP range we started seeing HPFP drop into a range that while not tanking was lower then we like to see, we will swap into our next higher voltage power module and get the car back on the dyno. This will allow us to run the timing we want, and bring the boost up most likely bringing us right into the 650WHP / 650WTQ range. For our first run, we pulled the car onto the dyno and ran a map we tested the last few times on the dyno that made a consistent 52XWHP / 54XWTQ with modest boost and timing. While trying to watch numerous things during the pull I should have paid more attention to the boost gauge, the car made it clear it was not happy on the top end and I could feel it nosing over. After the run, I pulled up the log and HOLY SH** the car made 40psi to reline, how we didn't blow the motor right there is a testament to the toughness of the N54 and how effective the DME is at protecting the motor when it is seeing all the information. The boost the car made surprised us both and we immediately started pulling WDGC out of it to bring the back down to a reasonable level. None the less we knew we were onto to something good when we saw the first graph. All Logs can be found in the ZIP file attached, lowest number is first pull, highest is last.

Pictures are in this order as it wont let me insert inline from files on my computer, each set of details is for the pull above it.

All Runs done in 4th gear


First Pull Graph


With boost lowered we tried another run, boost was still way to high for our liking so we dropped it again.

First Pull AEM boost log


Second pull graph


Third, I watched the boost gauge closely and did not like what I saw so I lifted early and me and D both decided it was time to ditch the old maps and start over.

Third pull graph


At this point Dzenno went in and pulled everything back so we could sneak up up on what we wanted to see. The 4th graph shows we had a decent starting place

Forth pull Graph


From here it was Dzenno working his magic building a nice smooth boost curve and naturally the power comes with it. Keep in mind we did not touch timing, these numbers are on 10-12 degrees on timing, as we were not happy with the fuel situation. On our last round of 15T testing we were running 15.5 degrees of advance with no issues. Adding that timing back in will net us at least another 20WHP

Fifth Pull Graph


Sixth Pull Graph


Seventh Pull Graph


Eighth Pull Graph


Ninth Pull Graph


Final Pull Graph


Final Pull with speed to show forth gear pull
Attached Images
            

Last edited by Vargasturbotech; 09-04-2014 at 10:44 AM.
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      09-04-2014, 09:47 AM   #2
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Here is some pics of the turbos as tested just from the compressor side, turbine side looks exactly like a set of normal stage 2's except a clipped turbine. Notice the OLD tags on these housings, we haven't used the red and blue tags since Stage 2 batch 1! That is how long we have had these housings on the shelf, we should have tested these a long time ago... First pics are 15T's in 20T housing, next are 20T's.

Also some photos of the turbine wheels for reference.
Biggest turbine Genuine Garrett GT series 28 turbine wheel, next out Garrett Clone TD04L, next MHI TD04L(RB)
Difference in flow is clear.
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      09-04-2014, 09:57 AM   #3
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I wonder how this stg 2 setup would run on a daily driver on stock internals.. A hell of a job goes out to you guys, those #'s and dyno charts look great
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      09-04-2014, 09:58 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marsflis View Post
I wonder how this stg 2 setup would run on a daily driver on stock internals.. A hell of a job goes out to you guys, those #'s and dyno charts look great
I am running it on my daily driver with stock internals, it just happens to be our shop car...
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      09-04-2014, 09:59 AM   #5
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From 4K onwards that is a seriously beastly powerband...Must feel absolutely bananas in the car. Very interesting....You are making it difficult for me to choose man!

Consider me extremely interested if we had a group buy. I'd be down as a clown with a 50% deposit.

A reliable 550-570WHP with stock frames would be absolutely fantastic.
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      09-04-2014, 10:01 AM   #6
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Any dyno's without e85/meth?
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      09-04-2014, 10:03 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wifeys335i View Post
Any dyno's without e85/meth?
We do not use meth in our testing, no pump dynos at this time. For people who want this kind of power, not running meth / E85 isn't really on their radar. We very well may do some 91 testing for fun and see if we can break 500WHP on 91 only...
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      09-04-2014, 10:08 AM   #8
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That's what I'm talking about.
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      09-04-2014, 10:16 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vargasturbotech View Post
We do not use meth in our testing, no pump dynos at this time. For people who want this kind of power, not running meth / E85 isn't really on their radar. We very well may do some 91 testing for fun and see if we can break 500WHP on 91 only...
Interested in 91 pump gas testing..
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      09-04-2014, 10:17 AM   #10
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Great News.....!

Tony, any Idea what ballpark figures can be expected for:

A) 93 Octane only
B) 50/50 Mix (93/e85)
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      09-04-2014, 10:20 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GreekMaverick View Post
Great News.....!

Tony, any Idea what ballpark figures can be expected for:

A) 93 Octane only
B) 50/50 Mix (93/e85)
Not speculating on any numbers based on fuel. When and if pump testing and E50 testing is done we will post them up. Guessing usually just gets you in trouble.
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      09-04-2014, 10:27 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 135Pats View Post
From 4K onwards that is a seriously beastly powerband...Must feel absolutely bananas in the car. Very interesting....You are making it difficult for me to choose man!

Consider me extremely interested if we had a group buy. I'd be down as a clown with a 50% deposit.

A reliable 550-570WHP with stock frames would be absolutely fantastic.
Agreed
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      09-04-2014, 10:44 AM   #13
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Update!

We have updated the first post as well, after speaking with Dzenno and weighing options. We have decided not to offer the cast wheel options.

Couple of reasons, at these power levels the cast wheels are more prone to failure and just not worth the risk, and Dzenno wants tuning to be as consistent as possible across the upgrades without too many variables involved. New info read as below.

Pricing is as follows:

Stage 2+ with Billet 19T Compressor Wheel option $3599 - WHP potential 590-615WHP*
Stage 2+ with Billet 20T Compressor Wheel option $3699 - WHP potential 600-650WHP*
15 degree clip to 9 blade turbine option $300 (this is for people looking for maximum flow and power, will result in slightly slower spool)

Core charge still applies: $300 for 335LHD, $600 for all other models
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      09-04-2014, 10:52 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vargasturbotech View Post
Update!

We have updated the first post as well, after speaking with Dzenno and weighing options. We have decided not to offer the cast wheel options.

Couple of reasons, at these power levels the cast wheels are more prone to failure and just not worth the risk, and Dzenno wants tuning to be as consistent as possible across the upgrades without too many variables involved. New info read as below.

Pricing is as follows:

Stage 2+ with Billet 19T Compressor Wheel option $3599 - WHP potential 590-615WHP*
Stage 2+ with Billet 20T Compressor Wheel option $3699 - WHP potential 600-650WHP*
15 degree clip to 9 blade turbine option $300 (this is for people looking for maximum flow and power, will result in slightly slower spool)

Core charge still applies: $300 for 335LHD, $600 for all other models
Smart decision and thank you for being transparent about it.

I could be 100% off base, but it sure as hell seems that there is a substantial market for something that accomplishes the following

- 550WHP RELIABLY (assuming proper fuel and octane)
- Stock hotside parts (lines, feeds, no moving the expansion tank, etc)
-Under $5K
-Can be tuned using OE logic. Or put another way, something that doesn't fight the DME over exhaust banks and the ensuing AFR issues.

It sounds like this product accomplishes just that. If so, there is a killing to be made. Perhaps i'm in a group of 1, but for me the spool of a single is a serious turn off when combined with the inevitable tuning frustrations. I want something I can bolt up, throw on the dyno, and let Jake have at it without a huge sacrifice in spool.
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      09-04-2014, 10:54 AM   #15
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Killing it, as always, Tony!
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      09-04-2014, 11:03 AM   #16
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great now i have to hold off on buying turbos lol this just seems like an awesome deal
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      09-04-2014, 11:03 AM   #17
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This looks awesome. I can't wait to see more results with different fuels. Being able to achieve 600whp on stock frames with quick spool is going to be nuts. Subscribed.
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      09-04-2014, 11:17 AM   #18
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This is what I'm talking about. I only run 93 octane right but like the idea of always being able to upgrade the fueling part to get those monster numbers. I really think you nailed it here. You even went back and made changes to add an extra piston. My car is smoking pretty good right now. I've thrown everything at it but new turbo's.
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      09-04-2014, 11:41 AM   #19
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Awesome results. Good to see this platform still getting large new developments.
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      09-04-2014, 12:18 PM   #20
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Great job guys
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      09-04-2014, 12:27 PM   #21
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      09-04-2014, 12:40 PM   #22
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I want 93 octane numbers
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