E90Post
 


Bimmertech
 
BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > NA Engine (non-turbo) / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications > N52 3.0 Si vrs. N52 3.0 motor



Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      05-06-2012, 08:09 PM   #1
BimmerBri
Private
 
BimmerBri's Avatar
 
Drives: 2007 Sparkling Graphite 328i
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Michigan

Posts: 57
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2007 e92 328i  [0.00]
N52 3.0 Si vrs. N52 3.0 motor

This question may have been asked in the past, although I was unable to locate any specs.

So, my prior vehicle was a 07 Z4 3.0Si
This vehicle produced an extra 20-25 horse power over the standard 3 liter inline six N52 3.0.

I now own a pristine 2007 e92 w/sport package, although as you all know this motor puts 20-25 less HP than the Si in the Z4.

Seeing as there has been so much talk about performance upgrades to this motor, I thought I would ask if any one knows what BMW did to produce the extra HP in the N52 Si motor? Is this the manifold swap I hear people referring to on this forum or did they do something entirely different?
Any insight would be appreciated.
Thanks all.
__________________
2007 328i Sparkling Graphite, Sport, Luxury, Convenience, Hot seats.
BimmerBri is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      05-06-2012, 10:44 PM   #2
Johnny D
Major
 
Johnny D's Avatar
 
Drives: 2006 BMW 325i
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Hot Springs, AR

Posts: 1,124
iTrader: (4)

Garage List
2006 BMW 325i  [4.58]
Yes, the extra horsepower came from the three stage manifold and different ECU tuning.
Johnny D is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      05-07-2012, 02:55 AM   #3
jc5988
First Lieutenant
 
Drives: 2010 328i 6MT Sport Pkg
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: SOCAL

Posts: 396
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by jntar View Post
Yes, the extra horsepower came from the three stage manifold and different ECU tuning.
indeed it has 3 stage and also i think different tuning compare to 330i N52 . most dyno i can find, SI makes about 10 avg hp compares to 330i N52.
__________________
N51- Perfomance Intake - Performance Exhaust - ESS Tuned - Performance SSK - CDV Delete - AFE Mid
jc5988 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      05-07-2012, 08:18 AM   #4
BimmerBri
Private
 
BimmerBri's Avatar
 
Drives: 2007 Sparkling Graphite 328i
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Michigan

Posts: 57
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2007 e92 328i  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by jntar
Yes, the extra horsepower came from the three stage manifold and different ECU tuning.
Thank you all for the clarification.
So this begs a couple additional questions. Stage 1 = intake/exhaust?
Stage 2= Ecu/flash and or tune?
Stage 3 -Manifold swap, when performing this stage is there a specific BMW Manifold that is used?

What is the average price of performing all three stages and HP gains?
Thanks in advance.
__________________
2007 328i Sparkling Graphite, Sport, Luxury, Convenience, Hot seats.
BimmerBri is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      05-07-2012, 08:26 AM   #5
Johnny D
Major
 
Johnny D's Avatar
 
Drives: 2006 BMW 325i
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Hot Springs, AR

Posts: 1,124
iTrader: (4)

Garage List
2006 BMW 325i  [4.58]
Quote:
Originally Posted by BimmerBri
Quote:
Originally Posted by jntar
Yes, the extra horsepower came from the three stage manifold and different ECU tuning.
Thank you all for the clarification.
So this begs a couple additional questions. Stage 1 = intake/exhaust?
Stage 2= Ecu/flash and or tune?
Stage 3 -Manifold swap, when performing this stage is there a specific BMW Manifold that is used?

What is the average price of performing all three stages and HP gains?
Thanks in advance.
You will need an intake off of a 330i, z4 si, 530i, or x3/5 si. The average price for a used manifold is around $3-500 from car-part.com. New from a dealer youre looking at $1k.

The tune will cost you between $500-800 depending on your location and exhaust you can price online.

Average gains for everything is hard to say. some people gain 30hp and some 45-50hp. All the mods listed should net you atleast up to the 330i spec.
__________________
Johnny D is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      05-07-2012, 01:06 PM   #6
Dr.GumbyM.D.
Private First Class
 
Dr.GumbyM.D.'s Avatar
 
Drives: 2009 328i
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Ann Arbor, MI

Posts: 150
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by jntar View Post
You will need an intake off of a 330i, z4 si, 530i, or x3/5 si. The average price for a used manifold is around $3-500 from car-part.com. New from a dealer youre looking at $1k.

The tune will cost you between $500-800 depending on your location and exhaust you can price online.

Average gains for everything is hard to say. some people gain 30hp and some 45-50hp. All the mods listed should net you atleast up to the 330i spec.
The intake and a tune to take advantage of the intake should get you to 330i levels. A tune over that (which is guaranteed, since nobody produces a tune to just get the intake manifold going. All tunes that use the manifold will be higher hp/tq tunes as well.. I guess you could specially request the tuner only enable the 3 stage intake, but why if it's the same price?)

The best bang for buck with the N52 seems like a tune only. Everything else is such a small gain, that it's negligible. That might change if/when forced induction comes out (Supercharger/Turbo), but until then, intake -3 to 3hp?, exhaust 0 - 5hp? and a tune 30-50hp? There has been discussion of new rods and other hardware, but it sounded like the juice wasn't worth the squeeze. The only place that actually went through the trouble was a tuning shop that was making an NA e90 race car.
__________________
2009 328i Jet Black with Dakota Brown interior - Nav, heated seats, Premium Package
Dr.GumbyM.D. is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      05-07-2012, 03:05 PM   #7
Alarbus
Private
 
Drives: 2009 328xi
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Philly

Posts: 84
iTrader: (0)

An "intake" as in "cold air intake" is -3 to 3, depending. An "intake manifold" is a 330 part, and is good for +10ish with no tune (from what I recall people saying), to a combined +45ish with the tune. You can change the intake independently of the manifold, they're two completely different parts.

Intake manifold - $2-300 for ~10hp
Tune $5-800 for ~15hp
Combination $7-1000 for ~45hp.

I got the simon tool, which made my tune $800, but I got lucky with an intake manifold for $200. Not bad at all.
Alarbus is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      05-12-2012, 06:53 AM   #8
BimmerBri
Private
 
BimmerBri's Avatar
 
Drives: 2007 Sparkling Graphite 328i
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Michigan

Posts: 57
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2007 e92 328i  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alarbus
An "intake" as in "cold air intake" is -3 to 3, depending. An "intake manifold" is a 330 part, and is good for +10ish with no tune (from what I recall people saying), to a combined +45ish with the tune. You can change the intake independently of the manifold, they're two completely different parts.

Intake manifold - $2-300 for ~10hp
Tune $5-800 for ~15hp
Combination $7-1000 for ~45hp.

I got the simon tool, which made my tune $800, but I got lucky with an intake manifold for $200. Not bad at all.
Wow, Thanks guys, I hadn't realized this could be preformed at such a relatively low cost.

I am assuming labor is going to be more expensive than the actual parts themselves.
Anyone know of a reputable shop/ place in SE Michigan to preform this sort of work?
__________________
2007 328i Sparkling Graphite, Sport, Luxury, Convenience, Hot seats.
BimmerBri is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      05-26-2012, 05:54 PM   #9
BimmerBri
Private
 
BimmerBri's Avatar
 
Drives: 2007 Sparkling Graphite 328i
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Michigan

Posts: 57
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2007 e92 328i  [0.00]
Bump for anyone able to recommend a reputable E90/92 tuner in MI.
__________________
2007 328i Sparkling Graphite, Sport, Luxury, Convenience, Hot seats.
BimmerBri is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      05-26-2012, 08:59 PM   #10
Dr.GumbyM.D.
Private First Class
 
Dr.GumbyM.D.'s Avatar
 
Drives: 2009 328i
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Ann Arbor, MI

Posts: 150
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by BimmerBri View Post
Bump for anyone able to recommend a reputable E90/92 tuner in MI.
No reason to really do a custom tune. Get the manifold (if you're going that route [also if you find a spare for reasonable $$, drop me a line, I'm in SE MI too]) and then go to Active Autowerke's website to look up where the nearest shop is that can do their tune. Whatever shop it is (generally) doesn't matter, because they all (are supposed to) take a snapshot of your ECU (and include a list of any performance-related mods) and send that to AA, who will map it out based on their own algorithms that they've found work best for N52 setups, then send it back to the local tuner, who just uploads it to your car. I don't know if/how much the tuners charge for this service.

If you want a custom tune, you should probably post in the local MI area forum sub-section to see who people recommend (if anyone goes that route). I suspect most people with 335s just get a JB4 kit, most 325/328/330 people get an AA or EuroCharged tune, because they're usually best bang for the buck, and they're used so wide-spread that they've got the experience with the engines (I hope!).

Also, if doing an AA tune, you can pay $350 and they'll send you your own firmware uploader/downloader/programmer, so in the future if your ECU gets flashed back to factory for whatever reason, or you want to flash/unflash your car, you've got that capability. That's what I'm hoping to save up for.

FYI:

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=634855 <-- more info on the Active Autowerke tune/flash/setup. If it's not there, it sounds like they're good people to deal with, who are generally receptive to questions, so no reason to not drop them a line.
__________________
2009 328i Jet Black with Dakota Brown interior - Nav, heated seats, Premium Package
Dr.GumbyM.D. is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      05-26-2012, 09:00 PM   #11
Dr.GumbyM.D.
Private First Class
 
Dr.GumbyM.D.'s Avatar
 
Drives: 2009 328i
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Ann Arbor, MI

Posts: 150
iTrader: (0)

Also, from their website, local distributor:

Just Racing Motorsports South Haven (269) 788-2570
__________________
2009 328i Jet Black with Dakota Brown interior - Nav, heated seats, Premium Package
Dr.GumbyM.D. is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      05-27-2012, 06:30 PM   #12
BimmerBri
Private
 
BimmerBri's Avatar
 
Drives: 2007 Sparkling Graphite 328i
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Michigan

Posts: 57
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2007 e92 328i  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr.GumbyM.D.
Also, from their website, local distributor:

Just Racing Motorsports South Haven (269) 788-2570
Thanks for the info Dr. G. I am still in the R&D stages of the car at this point in time. Seeing as the CPO warranty does not expire until just prior to 2013 I plan to wait until that time prior to any serious modding.

I will take a look in the regional forums. There are several reasons I am looking for a reputable shop, mainly for the labor involved in this type of project, I would prefer a BMW certified mech. do the work but the stealer is not an option.

On a side not Gavin's Supercharger has me very intrigued. If by the time my warranty expires there are more than a couple of people running this set up and it is for sale I will most likely go the SC route for obvious reasons.
I will keep you posted in the event I find a reputable aftermarket BMW shop/tuner and or Mechanic here in SE MI.
-BB
__________________
2007 328i Sparkling Graphite, Sport, Luxury, Convenience, Hot seats.
BimmerBri is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:10 AM.




e90post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST