E90Post
 


PYSPEED
 
BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Technical Forums > Tracking, Autocrossing, Dragstrip, Driving Techniques > On to an E36 M3



Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      05-30-2012, 09:54 PM   #23
335isGuy
Captain
 
Drives: 2011 335is, E36 M3
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: CYKZ - Toronto

Posts: 769
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
1997 Bmw M3  [0.00]
2011 Bmw 335is  [0.00]
When i first bought my E36 M. It was an amazing car out of the box. Let alone Car and Driver i think 1999 did a review on it an named it "Best Handling car at anyprice". Now that I run it in a series here in ontario and instruct with it at our local bmw club chapter. The E36 M for the price is the far superior track toy for the $$$$$. I still shock people what a stock E36 M3 can do out of the box. Best bang for your buck. And I love my Estoril Blue paint lol.
335isGuy is offline   Germany
0
Reply With Quote
      05-31-2012, 09:45 AM   #24
jbass524
Captain
 
Drives: 1995 E36 M3
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Norcal

Posts: 970
iTrader: (2)

It is definitely shocking what it can do out of the box. I can't wait for the suspension and bushings going in in a week.
jbass524 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      05-31-2012, 05:51 PM   #25
Mwishlist
Private First Class
 
Mwishlist's Avatar
 
Drives: 2008 328i
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: United States

Posts: 157
iTrader: (0)

Nice!
__________________
Interviewer: The most exciting moment during the race weekend?
Kimi: I think so it's the race start, always.
Interviewer: The most boring?
Kimi: Now.
Mwishlist is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      06-05-2012, 02:33 PM   #26
Bamaben
Lieutenant
 
Bamaben's Avatar
 
Drives: 07 335i blk/blk/alum 6MT
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Alabama

Posts: 522
iTrader: (0)

I agree 100% on the connected feel of the e36 vs 335

__________________


It takes a big man to cry. It takes an even bigger man to laugh at him-- Jack Handey

mods: blackout grill, finishing rods, badges, Blacklines.
Bamaben is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      06-08-2012, 06:53 PM   #27
VMRWheels
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor

 
VMRWheels's Avatar
 
Drives: BMW
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Anaheim, CA

Posts: 11,921
iTrader: (4)

Garage List
2008 5 Series  [3.30]
Yup. I agree, M3 will do really well in the corners. Since it's an older car, it obviously won't have the power of the 335.
__________________
VMRWheels is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      11-06-2012, 09:14 AM   #28
demontwinz
Lieutenant
 
Drives: 335i e92
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Toronto

Posts: 433
iTrader: (0)

what have you done to the car? What type of mods are on the E36 or is it all stock?

Last edited by demontwinz; 11-09-2012 at 11:11 AM.
demontwinz is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      12-30-2012, 10:50 AM   #29
SneakyDeeky
Major
 
SneakyDeeky's Avatar
 
Drives: '07 E90 335i 6MT
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Redondo Beach, CA

Posts: 1,320
iTrader: (3)

Garage List
2014 Audi SQ5  [0.00]
2007 BMW 335i E90  [4.83]
Thanks for posting, OP! This is great info as I've been throwing around all kinds of ideas to get me to the track and preserve my beloved 335i. Thinking of mustang boss 302, E9x M3, or Lotus Exige/Elise. After reading your post an E36 M3 is definitely in the mix. Thanks!
__________________

6MT | JB4 G5 | E60 | Walbro 392 | NGK 5992 | Spec2+ | ER Dual Oil Coolers | ER CP | Synapse BOV | ETS FMIC | 3.46 Wavetrac LSD
BMS DCI | AR DPs | Magnaflow | BSH OCC | KW V1 | M3 Bits | Advan RS | Michelin PSS | LS3 AEs | P3 Boost Gauge | DIY Track Aero Pics | COTM Pics
SneakyDeeky is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      12-31-2012, 01:44 PM   #30
jbass524
Captain
 
Drives: 1995 E36 M3
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Norcal

Posts: 970
iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by demontwinz View Post
what have you done to the car? What type of mods are on the E36 or is it all stock?
The motor is as it came - 145,000ish S52 w/S50 Manifold, ECIS Intake & MAF w/SW and a Dinan exhaust. Also has an oil pan baffle - but the chassis and suspension have been heavily modified:

Welded half cage with rear strut tower bracing
  • Stripped interior to save about 200lbs.
  • Full AKG 75D bushings and mounts with rear camber links, new front control arms and other bits that needed replacing.
  • JRZ RS coilovers 650/750 springs
  • 3.91 diff for better torque out of slow turns since the torque is almost nonexistent until 5000 RPM.

The M3, before I stripped it, took out the interior, added the cage, and the diff was 2 seconds a lap faster, at Sears Point, than my well sorted 335 with same tires and like suspension. With the interior out, cage, and the diff it will probably be at least 3 seconds but probably 5 seconds faster.

This is all for what my mods and a lot of pain cost me on the 335.

I have a detailed blog post about ready to go up covering he whole thing.
jbass524 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      12-31-2012, 01:46 PM   #31
jbass524
Captain
 
Drives: 1995 E36 M3
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Norcal

Posts: 970
iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by VMRWheels View Post
Yup. I agree, M3 will do really well in the corners. Since it's an older car, it obviously won't have the power of the 335.
And since it's faster in and out of the corners the power is less of a concern. Although I don't reach the same top speeds - down by about 7-10 MPH - by the end of the straights, I am going faster, sooner.
jbass524 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      12-31-2012, 02:02 PM   #32
demontwinz
Lieutenant
 
Drives: 335i e92
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Toronto

Posts: 433
iTrader: (0)

wow thanks for post .. I prob wont' put any mods into the car after FBO.
__________________
demontwinz is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      12-31-2012, 02:21 PM   #33
jbass524
Captain
 
Drives: 1995 E36 M3
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Norcal

Posts: 970
iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by demontwinz View Post
wow thanks for post .. I prob wont' put any mods into the car after FBO.
Do you mean on your 335? You can make a very trackable car out of it but it can be a little fragile. This also all has a lot to do with how hard you drive it.

BTW, what does FBO mean?
jbass524 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      12-31-2012, 02:36 PM   #34
neoduffer
Fast In, Slow Out
 
Drives: 06 E90
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: SoCal, SGV

Posts: 504
iTrader: (5)

Garage List
2006 330i  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbass524 View Post
The motor is as it came - 145,000ish S52 w/S50 Manifold, ECIS Intake & MAF w/SW and a Dinan exhaust. Also has an oil pan baffle - but the chassis and suspension have been heavily modified:

Welded half cage with rear strut tower bracing
  • Stripped interior to save about 200lbs.
  • Full AKG 75D bushings and mounts with rear camber links, new front control arms and other bits that needed replacing.
  • JRZ RS coilovers 650/750 springs
  • 3.91 diff for better torque out of slow turns since the torque is almost nonexistent until 5000 RPM.

The M3, before I stripped it, took out the interior, added the cage, and the diff was 2 seconds a lap faster, at Sears Point, than my well sorted 335 with same tires and like suspension. With the interior out, cage, and the diff it will probably be at least 3 seconds but probably 5 seconds faster.

This is all for what my mods and a lot of pain cost me on the 335.

I have a detailed blog post about ready to go up covering he whole thing.
That sounds like a lot of fun to drive, let alone build up.
__________________
: Ken
neoduffer is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      12-31-2012, 05:46 PM   #35
DallasBoosted
Captain
 
DallasBoosted's Avatar
 
Drives: '08 E92 335i
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Dallas

Posts: 843
iTrader: (2)

Garage List
2008 BMW 335i  [5.00]
How much does it weigh now?
DallasBoosted is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      12-31-2012, 05:55 PM   #36
jbass524
Captain
 
Drives: 1995 E36 M3
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Norcal

Posts: 970
iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by neoduffer View Post
That sounds like a lot of fun to drive, let alone build up.
It is a really fun car in both regards. I'm starting to work on my car where I paid people to do it before.

The driving is so different and much more satisfying than the 335.

It was 3260 with me in it. With all of the stripping and the cage we are hoping for about 3000 with me in it. I can't say for sure just yet though.
jbass524 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      12-31-2012, 06:07 PM   #37
DallasBoosted
Captain
 
DallasBoosted's Avatar
 
Drives: '08 E92 335i
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Dallas

Posts: 843
iTrader: (2)

Garage List
2008 BMW 335i  [5.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbass524 View Post
It is a really fun car in both regards. I'm starting to work on my car where I paid people to do it before.

The driving is so different and much more satisfying than the 335.

It was 3260 with me in it. With all of the stripping and the cage we are hoping for about 3000 with me in it. I can't say for sure just yet though.
So if you weigh 150-200lbs thats like 3050-3100lbs? Thats light but not ridiculously light. If you're going that much faster in a ~250hp 3100lb car than you did in a ~400hp 3500lb car then the suspension/tire/diff situation must be completely unequal.
DallasBoosted is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-02-2013, 09:58 AM   #38
dachtor
Private
 
Drives: e28 533i, '11 335is, '12 911 S
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Atlanta, GA

Posts: 61
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
This is a very interesting topic. Through a business that I own, (www.velocitymotorsports.com), I'm a member of Atlanta Motorsports Park. I've been looking for a personal track car / daily driver and started with the idea of an e36 m3 sedan. Then moved onto the idea of an e90 335i but I have had concerns over cooling and the obvious limp mode. I think the 335i makes for a better daily driver but the e36 might be a lower cost option that is every bit as capable on the track.
dachtor is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-02-2013, 01:11 PM   #39
jbass524
Captain
 
Drives: 1995 E36 M3
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Norcal

Posts: 970
iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by DallasBoosted View Post
So if you weigh 150-200lbs thats like 3050-3100lbs? Thats light but not ridiculously light. If you're going that much faster in a ~250hp 3100lb car than you did in a ~400hp 3500lb car then the suspension/tire/diff situation must be completely unequal.
It was a 300 HP 3700 lbs. car with me in it. Suspension package is a little better but not a lot - TC Kline DAs compared to JRZ RSs. The diff is inconsequential as the 335 has torque everywhere and a 6 speed. The tires are NT01s on the E36 and they were R888s on the 335.

I may also be a better driver now. Not sure about that.
jbass524 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-02-2013, 01:14 PM   #40
jbass524
Captain
 
Drives: 1995 E36 M3
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Norcal

Posts: 970
iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by dachtor View Post
This is a very interesting topic. Through a business that I own, (www.velocitymotorsports.com), I'm a member of Atlanta Motorsports Park. I've been looking for a personal track car / daily driver and started with the idea of an e36 m3 sedan. Then moved onto the idea of an e90 335i but I have had concerns over cooling and the obvious limp mode. I think the 335i makes for a better daily driver but the e36 might be a lower cost option that is every bit as capable on the track.
You got it exactly right. Don't forget that the 335 is a more fragile car when it comes to almost everything in and around the motor.

I also think a really nice E36 is a much more fun car to drive as a DD. You just miss the giant torque and some refinement in the 335.

With the E36, you also get a car that requires fewer and less expensive modifications to be great on the track.
jbass524 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-02-2013, 01:35 PM   #41
Smooth 330i
Captain
 
Smooth 330i's Avatar
 
Drives: anything goes
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: PA

Posts: 836
iTrader: (8)

Quote:
Originally Posted by jbass524 View Post
You got it exactly right. Don't forget that the 335 is a more fragile car when it comes to almost everything in and around the motor.

I also think a really nice E36 is a much more fun car to drive as a DD. You just miss the giant torque and some refinement in the 335.

With the E36, you also get a car that requires fewer and less expensive modifications to be great on the track.
great topic and review!

Any opinions on e46 M3 and why you went with the e36 istead? It would be interesting to add it in the mix. Obviously it is more expensive than e36 m3. I am wondering if e46 m3 is the one with the perfect balance of a capable track car and dd.
__________________

E90 330i Sport - JRZ RS1
Dinan - Quaife - BMW Perf
AA - M3 - GC - Apex - Braile
Smooth 330i is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-02-2013, 02:10 PM   #42
dachtor
Private
 
Drives: e28 533i, '11 335is, '12 911 S
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Atlanta, GA

Posts: 61
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by NokTurNaL 330i View Post
great topic and review!

Any opinions on e46 M3 and why you went with the e36 istead? It would be interesting to add it in the mix. Obviously it is more expensive than e36 m3. I am wondering if e46 m3 is the one with the perfect balance of a capable track car and dd.
I will speak for myself but this one is easy....... I need 4 doors, so my best option would be to look at an e46 zhp, but I've already owned an e46 330 so I really want something different.
dachtor is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-02-2013, 03:27 PM   #43
DallasBoosted
Captain
 
DallasBoosted's Avatar
 
Drives: '08 E92 335i
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Dallas

Posts: 843
iTrader: (2)

Garage List
2008 BMW 335i  [5.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbass524 View Post
It was a 300 HP 3700 lbs. car with me in it. Suspension package is a little better but not a lot - TC Kline DAs compared to JRZ RSs. The diff is inconsequential as the 335 has torque everywhere and a 6 speed. The tires are NT01s on the E36 and they were R888s on the 335.

I may also be a better driver now. Not sure about that.
I'd dispute the diff comment since an LSD is HUGE on track.

The lbs/hp on the 335 is like 12.3 and the 3250lb E36 is 13... so running a bone stock 335i you'd probably not see that much of an advantage to the 335.

That situation would change pretty dramatically without more race parts on the E36 if you run higher boost on the 335 (and have an LSD).
DallasBoosted is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-02-2013, 07:23 PM   #44
jbass524
Captain
 
Drives: 1995 E36 M3
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Norcal

Posts: 970
iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by DallasBoosted View Post
I'd dispute the diff comment since an LSD is HUGE on track.

The lbs/hp on the 335 is like 12.3 and the 3250lb E36 is 13... so running a bone stock 335i you'd probably not see that much of an advantage to the 335.

That situation would change pretty dramatically without more race parts on the E36 if you run higher boost on the 335 (and have an LSD).
This isn't an argument trying to say the 335 is bad. It's my opinion only and I will always love my 335. It just wasn't a great track car once I developed as a driver. Without a lot of money spent that I wasn't willing to spend it was a ridiculous option as a track car, given my history with it.

With the tune and lsd the 335 is better but the cost, reliability, and overall weight are still issues.

The diff for the E36 is purely for optimizing the limited torque. The LSD aspect of it is a benefit but the cost, weight, and reliability are the main benefits of the E36 over the 335 for me.
jbass524 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:20 AM.




e90post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST