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      01-24-2017, 06:08 AM   #1
BurrNinja
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Possible injector leak?

On cold mornings I get a idle rpm flutter like its wanting to stall when I start my car. But, when it was warm it wasn't as bad. I ran injector cleaner through my system, the terrible idle would go away when I start. Is there a way to tell if it would be an injector? If not are there any other lists of things that might cause this? The idle would always happen when I turn my car off and back on. I checked my air filter pulling it off and starting it to see if it would subside, which it did not. Can you unplug the vanos solenoid to see if that is causing it or would unplugging it make it worse? Also, I cleaned my MAF to see if that would help which it didn't. Also there are no codes, no cel at all.

Also adding that, engine vibration noticing at 550 rpm. When I increased my idle using inpa to 650 it smoothed out.

Last edited by BurrNinja; 01-24-2017 at 06:22 AM.
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      01-24-2017, 09:34 AM   #2
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Your idle should be around 600-700 rpm.

You may want to consider doing the following.

-clean vanos solenoids
-pull spark plugs and inspect for oil accumulation.
-perhaps change spark plugs altogether
-inspect valve cover gasket for leaks

You may have a leaky injector. Once excess fuel burns off the idle stabilizes.
Same would apply for spark plugs. If valve cover is leaking it may saturate one or two plugs and cause issues until oil burns off.

Also, if you're filling up cheap gas at random noname stations you may want to reconsider. Lower tier gasoline may cause similar effects.
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      01-24-2017, 10:46 AM   #3
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Check with inpa any hidden codes.
Also with inpa look at adaptation screens and see if anything is out of order like lambda multiplier, air flow, etc. That can give more info for diagnosis.
You should be looking at the values while engine is running.
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      01-24-2017, 01:14 PM   #4
hassmaschine
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leaky injectors are certainly possible, but they are pretty rare on a port injected fuel system. I wouldn't jump to that first as a cause of your symptoms.
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      01-24-2017, 11:10 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolf 335 View Post
Your idle should be around 600-700 rpm.

You may want to consider doing the following.

-clean vanos solenoids
-pull spark plugs and inspect for oil accumulation.
-perhaps change spark plugs altogether
-inspect valve cover gasket for leaks

You may have a leaky injector. Once excess fuel burns off the idle stabilizes.
Same would apply for spark plugs. If valve cover is leaking it may saturate one or two plugs and cause issues until oil burns off.

Also, if you're filling up cheap gas at random noname stations you may want to reconsider. Lower tier gasoline may cause similar effects.
I have all new ignition coils, spark plugs, i've cleaned and swapped vanos solenoids. I see a tiny i mean tiny bit of brown on the right side of the engine if you are looking at it from the front. Right under the intake manifold. I fill my gas up at speed way always putting 93 in.
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      01-24-2017, 11:11 PM   #6
BurrNinja
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PhaseP View Post
Check with inpa any hidden codes.
Also with inpa look at adaptation screens and see if anything is out of order like lambda multiplier, air flow, etc. That can give more info for diagnosis.
You should be looking at the values while engine is running.
How do i go about looking at the lambda multiplier, and air flow. I've seen if the car had any hidden codes, nothing shown. No errors.
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      01-25-2017, 12:14 AM   #7
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Also, do you think. Cause ive heard that using bad gas like the lower octane ones will make the engine run rough but cause no issues. Is speedways 93 octane really 93? Or where should I test out other gas at around toledo ohio?
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      01-25-2017, 12:51 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackwidow328i View Post
How do i go about looking at the lambda multiplier, and air flow. I've seen if the car had any hidden codes, nothing shown. No errors.
When the engine is running with INPA chose engine, DME computer etc
Then "Status", then "Analog". Over there each screen gives lots of values of the currently running engine values, parameters. You can look all and try to see if anything is looking out of order. Don't remember what each screen had but you can see air temperature, coolant temperature, throttle position, and I believe one is amount of air going into engine (what MAF tells) and things like that.

I had rich running codes at one time, so I am somewhat more familiar with the screens related to that.
The "SA J1979" screen I think shows you "short time" fuel trim related values, i.e. what the computer at the moment finds the right amount of values to adjust the amount of fuel to get the right burn.
There is "Additive adaptation value" and "Multiplier Adaptation value" there. The later especially corresponds to fuel trim. They should be close to zero with a fully warmed engine. If the multiplier is negative, it indicates engine is finding rich running condition and is trying to compensate this by cutting off some fuel. If it is positive, the other way around.
Until these reach to a threshold value (could be 20% not certain though), no code is thrown.
Also if you click "Exhaust" button at the "Status" section, it will display "Adaptation Gemisch" screen. I "believe" this one also shows fuel trim values but they are for "long term", meaning what computer decided as optimal based recently after running the engine, not exactly what the running values are currently.

So, play around those it may give some info for better diagnosis.

I also don't think a leaky injector is likely with the N52. You can't even easily find a remanufactured one of those because they just work.
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      01-25-2017, 01:00 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PhaseP View Post
When the engine is running with INPA chose engine, DME computer etc
Then "Status", then "Analog". Over there each screen gives lots of values of the currently running engine values, parameters. You can look all and try to see if anything is looking out of order. Don't remember what each screen had but you can see air temperature, coolant temperature, throttle position, and I believe one is amount of air going into engine (what MAF tells) and things like that.

I had rich running codes at one time, so I am somewhat more familiar with the screens related to that.
The "SA J1979" screen I think shows you "short time" fuel trim related values, i.e. what the computer at the moment finds the right amount of values to adjust the amount of fuel to get the right burn.
There is "Additive adaptation value" and "Multiplier Adaptation value" there. The later especially corresponds to fuel trim. They should be close to zero with a fully warmed engine. If the multiplier is negative, it indicates engine is finding rich running condition and is trying to compensate this by cutting off some fuel. If it is positive, the other way around.
Until these reach to a threshold value (could be 20% not certain though), no code is thrown.
Also if you click "Exhaust" button at the "Status" section, it will display "Adaptation Gemisch" screen. I "believe" this one also shows fuel trim values but they are for "long term", meaning what computer decided as optimal based recently after running the engine, not exactly what the running values are currently.

So, play around those it may give some info for better diagnosis.

I also don't think a leaky injector is likely with the N52. You can't even easily find a remanufactured one of those because they just work.
I will have to look into this, if i post the screen shots with engine warmed up on here could you help me out on a diagnosis or would it be to hard to tell. I could even post a yt vid also.
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      01-25-2017, 01:10 AM   #10
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I am no expert, I have some knowledge from chasing down rich condition codes, which eventually ended up being bad electrical connection at MAF sensor in my case.
I can try to help as much as I can though.

If you post the pictures here, others may also look and chime in and give input.
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      01-25-2017, 10:06 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackwidow328i View Post
Also, do you think. Cause ive heard that using bad gas like the lower octane ones will make the engine run rough but cause no issues. Is speedways 93 octane really 93? Or where should I test out other gas at around toledo ohio?
no.. the engine will run fine even on 87 octane. just less power.
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      01-25-2017, 11:05 AM   #12
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I've yet to run into this on an n52, but I'm sure it's happened. Maybe your fuel pump is worth looking into.

I just replaced on an e65 that had your exact symptoms.
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      01-26-2017, 11:35 PM   #13
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So my car is finally talking to me. On the way to get my lunch in between work schedule, I get a SEL reading P0171 System Too lean bank 1.

Tomorrow im going to my dads garage to check all the hoses for a possible air leak, or whatever else to see if I see a crack in any hose. Saying it is after the MAF sensor.

List goes as Causes.
-MAF dirty or faulty
-Vacuum leak downstream of MAF
- Possible cracked vacuum or PCV line/connection
-Faulty or stuck open PCV valve.
- Failed of faulty oxygen sensor.
- Sticking/plugged or failed fuel injector.
- Low fuel pressure, possible plugged/dirty fuel filter
- Exhaust leak between engine and first oxygen sensor.

Can INPA error reader tell me more into this code?
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