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      06-05-2012, 08:04 AM   #1
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Question Dealer didnt disclose major repairs on car before I purchased...

So Last week I leased a 2012 Alpine white 135i M sport convertible from a BMW dealership that was previously a loaner. Had a great deal and loved how fun the car was so jumped on it. Yesterday the sales rep calls me and says they forgot to tell me about some of the repairs that were done on the 135i before i bought it and that they were a full disclosure dealership and wanted me to come in and sign the document saying I know about the repairs. Well in March someone who drove the loaner drove up on a huge curb or something and the power steering pump, intercooler, oil cooler, etc had to be replaced, over $2K in parts and $2K in labor. I just wanted to see if you guys thought I should be compensated in anyway because this could affect my selling price if i decided to sell or trade in after my lease is up? Should I call BMW of America? Thanks for the help.
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      06-05-2012, 08:12 AM   #2
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No compensation. You either take the deal or not. In my opinion it would only affect your selling price if it showed up as an accident on vehicle history. If not, it'd be no different than warranty/service work (even though it was neither of the two).

And since you are leasing, does it really matter? Why would you sell or trade after your lease is up? You don't own it... you just have the option to buy it so if anything DON'T exercise the buyout and you're fine.
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      06-05-2012, 08:18 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by Dubbedown View Post
No compensation. You either take the deal or not. In my opinion it would only affect your selling price if it showed up as an accident on vehicle history. If not, it'd be no different than warranty/service work (even though it was neither of the two).

And since you are leasing, does it really matter? Why would you sell or trade after your lease is up? You don't own it... you just have the option to buy it so if anything DON'T exercise the buyout and you're fine.
That makes sense but I do have the option to sell, trade, or buy it. Its the principle I'm looking at here I guess since they messed up in not telling me when I leased the car since they are a full disclosure dealership but you're right about the it being like warranty work.
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      06-05-2012, 08:22 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by Charleston335 View Post
That makes sense but I do have the option to sell, trade, or buy it. Its the principle I'm looking at here I guess since they messed up in not telling me when I leased the car since they are a full disclosure dealership but you're right about the it being like warranty work.
I highly doubt you have the option to sell/trade - that would imply you already own it. You do not own anything in a lease. Rather you have the option to buy at the end of the lease, which in that case you then can do whatever you please, whether it's keep/sell/trade.

If you purchased/financed the car, that's a different story. And like I said, based on principle alone, if you don't like how this deal went down, then just return the car (and possibly renegotiate a new deal). You just have to wonder will they call your bluff, and you may not get this car back (which you said you really like).
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      06-05-2012, 08:24 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by Dubbedown View Post
I highly doubt you have the option to sell/trade - that would imply you already own it. You do not own anything in a lease.

Rather you have the option to buy at the end of the lease, which in that case you then can do whatever you please, whether it's keep/sell/trade.
I went over this with the Sales rep a few times and he said I can sell it if I want I just have to make sure I payoff the amount I owe on the car but yeah I guess its the same thing as buying it per-say.

Yeah not sure if they will call my bluff but will shoot him an email now to see
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      06-05-2012, 08:25 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by Charleston335 View Post
I went over this with the Sales rep a few times and he said I can sell it if I want I just have to make sure I payoff the amount I owe on the car but yeah I guess its the same thing as buying it per-say.
It's not the same thing as per se. It is exactly how I described it. You own nothing now, which is one of the benefits of the lease - ie you avoid risk of obsolescence. In any case, since you agree just don't buy it at the end, and that's that.
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      06-05-2012, 08:32 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dubbedown View Post
It's not the same thing as per se. It is exactly how I described it. You own nothing now, which is one of the benefits of the lease - ie you avoid risk of obsolescence. In any case, since you agree just don't buy it at the end, and that's that.
Hmm so youre saying I cant take it to a carmax or another dealer or put it on autotrader and just sell it? Bc that is not what they told me and its not what ive been reading. Not saying youre wrong but curious.
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      06-05-2012, 08:35 AM   #8
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And this is what the sales rep just emailed me back regarding it being reported as an accident "It will not show up because it was not reported to a title to a vehicle.
There wasn’t a title to the vehicle until you purchased it."
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      06-05-2012, 08:48 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dubbedown View Post
No compensation. You either take the deal or not. In my opinion it would only affect your selling price if it showed up as an accident on vehicle history. If not, it'd be no different than warranty/service work (even though it was neither of the two).

And since you are leasing, does it really matter? Why would you sell or trade after your lease is up? You don't own it... you just have the option to buy it so if anything DON'T exercise the buyout and you're fine.
Yes it does matter. If any problems arise from those repairs, he will be out of a vehicle for quite sometime that he still has to pay for. It happened to me with my lease and we all knew from my 30 pg long thread how pissed I was earlier this year.
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      06-05-2012, 08:51 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sara504 View Post
Yes it does matter. If any problems arise from those repairs, he will be out of a vehicle for quite sometime that he still has to pay for. It happened to me with my lease and we all knew from my 30 pg long thread how pissed I was earlier this year.
This is what he said after asking for compensation"No sir. Not able to compensate. Hopefully you understand that it was just an oversight on our part and we took care of everything."

Any advice Sara504?
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      06-05-2012, 08:58 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charleston335 View Post
This is what he said after asking for compensation"No sir. Not able to compensate. Hopefully you understand that it was just an oversight on our part and we took care of everything."

Any advice Sara504?
Every car is different. My 8 month old car has already had the power steering taken out and put back in as well as 10 other parts. Its frustrating for me to know that the car has been messed with so much. Its a chance your going to have to take. Yes its a lease, so it is covered under warranty should something else go wrong with your car HOWEVER its the inconveinence of not having your car for who knows who long should something go wrong... (I was out of my car for 20 days on 8 different service attempts over a period of two months and yes I still had to pay the monthly note even though I was not able to use my vehicle.. ) They should have pulled up service reports at the time of sale. Id be pissed off that they didnt go over previous accidents and honestly I'd make them take the car back because of that and let them have to deal with it and get something else for peace of mind but thats just me.
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      06-05-2012, 08:58 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charleston335 View Post
Hmm so youre saying I cant take it to a carmax or another dealer or put it on autotrader and just sell it? Bc that is not what they told me and its not what ive been reading. Not saying youre wrong but curious.
No, not unless you buy it. Simply put this is how the lease works (and I'm not even going to bother going into residual value, net cap costs, depreciation, etc)...

You negotiated a price.
You then figure out your monthly payments.
Negotiated price - sum of monthly payments = buyout price

After your lease is over, you then have to decide

a) do I return the car, and have nothing left (no money owed, no car to keep)? or
b) keep the car buy pay off that buyout price.

If you choose to walk away, which you can and most do, you do not own the car. And therefore you can't sell/trade it. You should be asking yourself, what do you think the difference between lease and buy is?

However someone did make a good point, in that if you're worried this "accident history" may lead into a lot of downtime, headache, frustration, it wouldn't hurt to renegotiate your lease (as if you were "interested" in buying it out later - even though you are not). That may lead to smaller monthly payments. But if you only brought up this thread because you thought you were on the hook for buying the car and you didn't want to get stuck with it, then you really have nothing to worry about for the reasons I've already mentioned.
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      06-05-2012, 09:06 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by Dubbedown View Post
No, not unless you buy it. Simply put this is how the lease works (and I'm not even going to bother going into residual value, net cap costs, depreciation, etc)...

You negotiated a price.
You then figure out your monthly payments.
Negotiated price - sum of monthly payments = buyout price

After your lease is over, you then have to decide

a) do I return the car, and have nothing left (no money owed, no car to keep)? or
b) keep the car buy pay off that buyout price.

If you choose to walk away, which you can and most do, you do not own the car. And therefore you can't sell/trade it. You should be asking yourself, what do you think the difference between lease and buy is?

However someone did make a good point, in that if you're worried this "accident history" may lead into a lot of downtime, headache, frustration, it wouldn't hurt to renegotiate your lease (as if you were "interested" in buying it out later - even though you are not). That may lead to smaller monthly payments. But if you only brought up this thread because you thought you were on the hook for buying the car and you didn't want to get stuck with it, then you really have nothing to worry about for the reasons I've already mentioned.
Oh ok I was actually talking about getting rid of the car before the lease is up, you are talking after the lease is up. Yeah smaller payments would be nice but they are so anal i actually think theyd just take the car back.
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      06-05-2012, 09:10 AM   #14
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I guess the question you need to ask yourself is would have still bought it to begin with had you seen the reports.
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      06-05-2012, 09:11 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by Charleston335 View Post
Oh ok I was actually talking about getting rid of the car before the lease is up, you are talking after the lease is up. Yeah smaller payments would be nice but they are so anal i actually think theyd just take the car back.
You're not being very clear here. You originally asked about receiving additional compensation because you thought you owned the car and it would hurt your resale value. However I explained you do not own the car and thus you don't need to worry about resale value.

Now you're talking about dumping the car before the lease is up? Are you suggesting you want to pursue this route because of the car's accident history? In that case, just don't sign the documents and return the car now. Or tell them you'll only keep the lease if they renegotiate a higher resale value, which will result in lower monthly payments.

However, if you're suggesting in general, you wanted to possibly break the lease before it is up - that really is NOT possible. The only way you could do that is if you were to find someone else to pick up the lease for you. There are sites like swapalease that brings lessees and potential lessees together. Or if you found someone to pick up the lease, they would have to apply to BMW FS and there is a transfer fee involved. But the point is you have to find someone to pick up your remaining payments, you cannot just walk away. You are legally obligated to keep the lease.
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      06-05-2012, 09:16 AM   #16
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Ok let me clear it up, I have no intentions of buying the car outright. My intentions was letting someone take over the lease 2 years from now. That being said I do have the upper hand bc they need me to sign this document saying I know about the accident and repairs so I wanted to use that as leverage to maybe get lower payments since they NEED me to sign this since they are a full disclosure dealer. Doesnt hurt to try right?

And Sara I probably would have still got it since it drove like a dream still and would have never noticed.
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      06-05-2012, 09:20 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charleston335 View Post
Ok let me clear it up, I have no intentions of buying the car outright. My intentions was letting someone take over the lease 2 years from now. That being said I do have the upper hand bc they need me to sign this document saying I know about the accident and repairs so I wanted to use that as leverage to maybe get lower payments since they NEED me to sign this since they are a full disclosure dealer. Doesnt hurt to try right?

And Sara I probably would have still got it since it drove like a dream still and would have never noticed.
How much lower of a payments are you looking to get?
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      06-05-2012, 09:21 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by Dubbedown View Post
You're not being very clear here. You originally asked about receiving additional compensation because you thought you owned the car and it would hurt your resale value. However I explained you do not own the car and thus you don't need to worry about resale value.

Now you're talking about dumping the car before the lease is up? Are you suggesting you want to pursue this route because of the car's accident history? In that case, just don't sign the documents and return the car now. Or tell them you'll only keep the lease if they renegotiate a higher resale value, which will result in lower monthly payments.

However, if you're suggesting in general, you wanted to possibly break the lease before it is up - that really is NOT possible. The only way you could do that is if you were to find someone else to pick up the lease for you. There are sites like swapalease that brings lessees and potential lessees together. Or if you found someone to pick up the lease, they would have to apply to BMW FS and there is a transfer fee involved. But the point is you have to find someone to pick up your remaining payments, you cannot just walk away. You are legally obligated to keep the lease.
Here you go
I work for BMW Financial Services and one of the most often asked questions I get is "How can I get out of my lease?" This is a fairly straight forward question however the answers can vary and there are a number of options available. I figured I would put a sort of a guide out there to give everyone the basic options.

First things first, when you sign a lease contract you are expected to fulfill the contract in one of two ways, either by making all the payments on the lease or by buying the vehicle from us for the payoff price. Here are the four ways that you can do this and get out early.


1. Pay the remaining payments: This option may make sense for some of us, while it might be completely useless for others. It may make sense when you are trying to get out of your 335I lease to get into a new M3 if you have maybe 2-3 payments left, however if you have 15 payments remaining you would still need to make all 15 remaining payments in full prior to turning in the car.

2. Selling the vehicle: This is as easy as it sounds, you may buy, sell, or trade the vehicle at any point in the lease. As long as we get the payoff we request for the vehicle we will send the title to you and you are free to do with the car what you will. You may sell the vehicle to a 3rd party private person, 3rd party dealership, or a BMW dealership. You may also trade the car into a dealership. If you are selling to a private party though, note we will not send the title on the vehicle until the payoff is in our hands. Any arrangements made for transfer of money between you and the buyer is outside of our control so be careful with this. A third party may not refinance a current lease with BMW financial, however they may often be able to finance through their own bank, credit union, etc.

3. Lease assumption: A BMW lease may be taken over by a third party at any time in the lease up til the final six months of your lease. There is a $450 fee and that person would have to submit a credit application with us and be approved. The process will take approximately three weeks. Once the process is completed though you will be completely removed from the account and will have no further liability with us.

4. Sale of Liability: This is an often undiscussed option because for many people it seems like it may be a riskier proposal. The basis is that it works much the same as doing a voluntary repossession, however no harm will be done to your credit. Basically once the process is initiated through us you will be responsible for paying the $350 disposition fee and dropping the car off at your dealership. The dealer will bring the car to auction and sell it at auction, whatever the difference is between the prices of the vehicle at auction and your current payoff price is what you would owe back to us. The nice thing about this is no matter how little the car is sold for at auction the maximum that you would owe back to us is the amount of the remaining payments on the vehicle, and the possibility exists that you may get away with paying less if nothing at all.
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      06-05-2012, 09:22 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by Charleston335 View Post
Here you go
I work for BMW Financial Services and one of the most often asked questions I get is "How can I get out of my lease?" This is a fairly straight forward question however the answers can vary and there are a number of options available. I figured I would put a sort of a guide out there to give everyone the basic options.

First things first, when you sign a lease contract you are expected to fulfill the contract in one of two ways, either by making all the payments on the lease or by buying the vehicle from us for the payoff price. ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dubbedown View Post
I highly doubt you have the option to sell/trade - that would imply you already own it. You do not own anything in a lease. Rather you have the option to buy at the end of the lease, which in that case you then can do whatever you please, whether it's keep/sell/trade.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dubbedown View Post
But the point is you have to find someone to pick up your remaining payments, you cannot just walk away. You are legally obligated to keep the lease.
You're not proving me wrong in any way with this unnecessary lengthy post. Everything I said was summed up the very beginning (in bold). Anything afterwards is how you'd go about doing what I already said.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Charleston335 View Post
Ok let me clear it up, I have no intentions of buying the car outright. My intentions was letting someone take over the lease 2 years from now. That being said I do have the upper hand bc they need me to sign this document saying I know about the accident and repairs so I wanted to use that as leverage to maybe get lower payments since they NEED me to sign this since they are a full disclosure dealer. Doesnt hurt to try right?

And Sara I probably would have still got it since it drove like a dream still and would have never noticed.
So in that case, you have to ask yourself

1) If I could get monthly payments, would I keep the car?
2) Regardless of less monthly payments, I want nothing to do with this car...

I'm guessing it's going to be #1 because everyone has a price. Your monthly payment is = [ (Negotiated Price - $ Down - Residual Value) / # of months ] + Money Factor

You won't be able to change your money factor. The only thing you can change in that equation is your negotiated price, so try having them lower that on the basis of this car is worth LESS than the negotiated price. If the new (lower) monthly payments makes you happy, great sign the docs knowing that you don't plan to buy the car ANYway so you could care less about the post-warranty value of this car. Pay less each month, and then think about your next car.

If it bothers you so much this car has been involved in an accident and no (lesser) monthly payment would keep you satisfied, just WALK away. Don't sign the docs and tell them you want to return the lease.
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Last edited by 3002 tii; 06-05-2012 at 09:35 AM.
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      06-05-2012, 09:24 AM   #20
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How much lower of a payments are you looking to get?
Im at 499 a month now so 480s would be nice
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      06-05-2012, 09:26 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by Dubbedown View Post
So in that case, you have to ask yourself

1) If I could get monthly payments, would I keep the car?
2) Regardless of less monthly payments, I want nothing to do with this car...

I'm guessing it's going to be #1 because everyone has a price. Your monthly payment is = [ (Negotiated Price - $ Down - Residual Value) / # of months ] + Money Factor

You won't be able to change your money factor. The only thing you can change in that equation is your negotiated price, so try having them lower that on the basis of this car is worth LESS than the negotiated price. If the new (lower) monthly payments makes you happy, great sign the docs knowing that you don't plan to buy the car ANYway so you could care less about the post-warranty value of this car. Pay less each month, and then think about your next car.

If it bothers you so much this car has been involved in an accident and no (lesser) monthly payment would keep you satisfied, just WALK away. Don't sign the docs and tell them you want to return the lease.
Bingo! you just hit the nail on the head, thanks for the input
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      06-05-2012, 09:29 AM   #22
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Im at 499 a month now so 480s would be nice
Reasonable. Well best of luck. Let us know what happens.
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