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      03-23-2011, 08:22 PM   #1
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Diet: Cutting for 30 days

I've never gone through a hardcore cutting diet, but I want to drop some fat fast, without losing any muscle mass (hopefully even gaining ever so slightly in the meantime).

I'm cutting out all starchy foods and sugars (except for my immediate post-workout meal). I'm getting my carbs from veggies and sticking to lean protein.

I know this can be googled, but I'd like to know if any of the members on this board have a specific diet they go on that's worked for them in the past. This morning instead of doing a typical 3 eggs + toast + sausage breakfast, I did two eggs and some yogurt with granola and sliced fruit. Kind of digging the change.

I'd love to hear some ideas.
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      03-23-2011, 08:42 PM   #2
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How are your eggs prepared? Limit the fruit, has alot of sugars. Try adding some kashi or other fiber heavy cereal to the yogurt.
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      03-23-2011, 08:44 PM   #3
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Well your body can only be anabolic or catabolic so you're either going to gain mass or lose mass. If you lose fat you're going to lose some muscle too, it's unavoidable.

You just want to drop more fat than muscle. I've used ketogenic dieting in the past to shred and it worked (got to 7% bodyfat).
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      03-23-2011, 09:12 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evoq007 View Post
How are your eggs prepared? Limit the fruit, has alot of sugars. Try adding some kashi or other fiber heavy cereal to the yogurt.
Well when I do a 3 egg breakfast it's typically two whites and a yolk, but today I did two whole eggs...honestly I just wasn't used to such a small amount of food for breakfast lol. I've got all-bran. I'm trying to make a more well-rounded breakfast so I'll include a small bit of cereal as well I guess.

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Originally Posted by MrBlonde View Post
Well your body can only be anabolic or catabolic so you're either going to gain mass or lose mass. If you lose fat you're going to lose some muscle too, it's unavoidable.

You just want to drop more fat than muscle. I've used ketogenic dieting in the past to shred and it worked (got to 7% bodyfat).
So you're burning more fats than carbs. Would you mind giving me a vague run down of what a typical day's worth of food this diet might entail?
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      03-23-2011, 09:58 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by Nikkahtropolis View Post
..
So you're burning more fats than carbs. Would you mind giving me a vague run down of what a typical day's worth of food this diet might entail?
Yes there is a strong body of evidence based experience that shows targeted ketogenic dieting combined with weight training can be muscle sparing. In other words it's a way of losing more fat and less muscle compared to normal calorie restriction.

The diet is the tricky part because moving your body out of carbohydrate fuelled mode (normal) and into ketogenic mode (fat based) is not easy. You need to eat less than 30g of carbs a day to enter and stay in ketosis. The rest of the calories you want are your indicated maximum protein and then the balance in fat.

You end up eating a lot of meat and fats. Stuff like MCT, cheese, cream, etc. There are some very good publications on exactly what to do and there were some great forums for lowcarb believers. I haven't been a believer since about 1998 so I don't have the latest info but google for lowcarb and ketogenic.

I can from my own experience tell you that ketogenic dieting does work and work well. I just couldn't be bothered with the hassle of it these days.

Lyle McDonald is the guru and the latest book I know of is the V2 of his first Ketogenic dieting (and training) bible. http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/ultimate-diet-20

Also look here http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/irontamer6.htm
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      03-23-2011, 10:04 PM   #6
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I'm doing the ketogenic diet right now as well. You'll suffer a potential 1-2 week crash where your body is adjusting to using fats as a source of energy instead of carbs.

The only grain carb I'm comsuming now is my breakfast cereal (kashi golean regular) and one slice of toast. All the other carbs are coming from veggies. I'm only eating one fruit and a small cup of berries per day. Everything else consist of meats, dairy, fish, nuts, beans and veggie.

MrBlonde, I'd love to hear what sort of meals you had in one day as well as ur height so that I can gauge the quantity that I need to eat.
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      03-23-2011, 10:44 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Garduna View Post
I'm doing the ketogenic diet right now as well. You'll suffer a potential 1-2 week crash where your body is adjusting to using fats as a source of energy instead of carbs.

The only grain carb I'm comsuming now is my breakfast cereal (kashi golean regular) and one slice of toast. All the other carbs are coming from veggies. I'm only eating one fruit and a small cup of berries per day. Everything else consist of meats, dairy, fish, nuts, beans and veggie.

MrBlonde, I'd love to hear what sort of meals you had in one day as well as ur height so that I can gauge the quantity that I need to eat.
Be careful, the devil is in the details with keto dieting. My first advice is to get some Ketostix and use them every morning. They are test papers you piss on first thing which will let you know if you actually in ketosis or not. Doing a halfassed ketogenic cycle is worthless, you've got to get into ketosis and stay there.

Sounds to me like you're eating way too many carbs to be in ketosis.

As for how much to eat, you need to be on top of your BMR.

BMR and calories
BMR is basal metabolic rate and is the energy expended by your body to merely be alive. In clinical tests BMR is measured after a person has sleep for 8 hours and has eaten nothing for 12 hours and remains in a reclined position. It's the amount of calories you use by doing nothing at all.

BMR is important for both training and fat loss because it's an approximation of how many calories you require each day to stay exactly as you are. Not to gain any mass or lose any mass.

There are online calculators that help you get an approximate value for your BMR. Check out this one http://www.caloriesperhour.com/index_burn.php

Now for fat loss or for mass gain the same rules apply. The recommendation is a 10-20% variance in calories either way. So for an aggressive mass loss phase, I would target to eat 20% less calories than my BMR.
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      03-24-2011, 12:44 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrBlonde View Post
Yes there is a strong body of evidence based experience that shows targeted ketogenic dieting combined with weight training can be muscle sparing. In other words it's a way of losing more fat and less muscle compared to normal calorie restriction.

The diet is the tricky part because moving your body out of carbohydrate fuelled mode (normal) and into ketogenic mode (fat based) is not easy. You need to eat less than 30g of carbs a day to enter and stay in ketosis. The rest of the calories you want are your indicated maximum protein and then the balance in fat.

You end up eating a lot of meat and fats. Stuff like MCT, cheese, cream, etc. There are some very good publications on exactly what to do and there were some great forums for lowcarb believers. I haven't been a believer since about 1998 so I don't have the latest info but google for lowcarb and ketogenic.

I can from my own experience tell you that ketogenic dieting does work and work well. I just couldn't be bothered with the hassle of it these days.

Lyle McDonald is the guru and the latest book I know of is the V2 of his first Ketogenic dieting (and training) bible. http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/ultimate-diet-20

Also look here http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/irontamer6.htm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrBlonde View Post
Be careful, the devil is in the details with keto dieting. My first advice is to get some Ketostix and use them every morning. They are test papers you piss on first thing which will let you know if you actually in ketosis or not. Doing a halfassed ketogenic cycle is worthless, you've got to get into ketosis and stay there.

Sounds to me like you're eating way too many carbs to be in ketosis.

As for how much to eat, you need to be on top of your BMR.

BMR and calories
BMR is basal metabolic rate and is the energy expended by your body to merely be alive. In clinical tests BMR is measured after a person has sleep for 8 hours and has eaten nothing for 12 hours and remains in a reclined position. It's the amount of calories you use by doing nothing at all.

BMR is important for both training and fat loss because it's an approximation of how many calories you require each day to stay exactly as you are. Not to gain any mass or lose any mass.

There are online calculators that help you get an approximate value for your BMR. Check out this one http://www.caloriesperhour.com/index_burn.php

Now for fat loss or for mass gain the same rules apply. The recommendation is a 10-20% variance in calories either way. So for an aggressive mass loss phase, I would target to eat 20% less calories than my BMR.
Seriously, thanks for the links. I want to try it out for a calendar month, or maybe two if I can motivate myself self to stay consistent.
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      03-24-2011, 01:10 AM   #9
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Go for it, it's something to try out and see if it helps with your current goals. If you've got any specific questions ask away.
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      03-24-2011, 01:13 AM   #10
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That's called Atkins basically. You'll lose weight...but you'll put it back on after re-introducing carbs to your diet. It's inevitable.
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      03-24-2011, 01:45 AM   #11
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What? Gonna have to research this...
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      03-24-2011, 01:46 AM   #12
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check out:
http://forums.steroid.com/forumdispl...IET-QUESTIONS&
or
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/forumdisplay.php?f=13
and
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/forumdisplay.php?f=553

and this isn't diet related but still good info: http://www.bodybuilding.net/fat-loss...view-2326.html

hope that helps.
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      03-24-2011, 02:24 AM   #13
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That's called Atkins basically. You'll lose weight...but you'll put it back on after re-introducing carbs to your diet. It's inevitable.
A little knowledge is a dangerous thing. Atkins induction phase is a ketogenic diet yeah. But the aim of ketogenic dieting is to lose more fat than muscle during the cutting phase. The targeted form of keto uses weight training to further improve muscle sparing.

You will lose some water weight when you do keto which will come back on as you re-introduce carbs, but the fat/LBM lost will still be lost. There's nothing inevitable about fat loss.
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      03-24-2011, 02:25 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by bmwmthree View Post
Good links! Huge community for keto workouts there.
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      03-24-2011, 02:43 AM   #15
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      03-24-2011, 07:30 AM   #16
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Lyle McDonald type diet is good

Some variations of this is www.leangains.com

and the Warrior diet.

all know as Intermediate Fasting!

I did Keto....the no carb thing was way to restrictive for me with Family functions and the wife.

I am on a variation of lean gains now for the last 8 weeks or so. I cut about 5% bodyfat and I am down to 10% BF as I stand. My strength has gone through the roof
and I am hitting highs on all my body parts (lifting heavy). Its a slow go but I eat sick meals at steak houses and chain restaurants. Consume a decent amount of beer. Eat massive pasta meals and can enjoy Birthday parties with cake Massive sandwiches with the best bread.

I do no Dairy(cheese, milk or butter or anything that has a high milk content)
I am allergic to dairy.

I consume no protien powder or bars. Just take a multi vitamin and an E/C stack.

Lift fasted and have your sick meal after your workout.

The long fasting each day takes some time to get use to...but you do get use to it. Still gotta watch calories somewhat. Gotta be under maintence. No cardio needed but I find after a huge carb meal with massive beers it helps me sweat out all the extra water.

Combine it with an EC stack.

Cliffs:

Intermediate fasting
Eat one giant 2000 calorie(500 under maintence) meal a day...nothing else but diet drinks and coffee
Lift heavy...lower reps and lift like a pissed off Gorilla.
Eat whatever you want ...just try to hit your protien good.
Use EC stack for an added bonus.
Be lean and cut and eat Hooters type food and make everyone jealous!
No cardio needed but helps keeps water weight stable.
Never been happier. Fits my life style perfect.
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      03-24-2011, 11:02 AM   #17
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^^^


IF suggests you intake BCAA's both Pre and Post workout
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      03-24-2011, 01:09 PM   #18
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^^^


IF suggests you intake BCAA's both Pre and Post workout
Hence the word Variation before the word Lean gains. My Roth IRA seems to like the extra money every month and my progress is fine.

Each of the following foods contain 2000mg of BCAA's. So the post workout meal my BCAA's are taken care of naturally.

3 ounces of tuna (fresh grilled or canned packed in water)

3 ounces of extra lean beef (grilled filet mignon etc.)

3 ounces of cooked light or dark meat chicken

1 cup of nonfat or low fat yogurt (plain or fruit flavored)

1 cup of cooked kidney beans or lentils

1 cup cooked rice mixed with 1 cup of cooked black beans
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      03-24-2011, 01:41 PM   #19
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Nice! I like to skip supplements (whey, etc.) and stick to whole foods. Tasts a lot better and is a whole lot satiating
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      03-24-2011, 01:44 PM   #20
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..

here's what I did, and I lost about 15 lbs.. and I was by no means really over weight.. 4 meals, none of which are fast good.. eat anything you want.. not to excede 1600 calories.. if you work out every day or do atleast 50 mins of cardio, you can credit a defecit..
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      03-24-2011, 02:07 PM   #21
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here's what I did, and I lost about 15 lbs.. and I was by no means really over weight.. 4 meals, none of which are fast good.. eat anything you want.. not to excede 1600 calories.. if you work out every day or do atleast 50 mins of cardio, you can credit a defecit..
lol this is not good advice.

OP wants to minimize muscle loss not turn into a Nicole Richie
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      03-24-2011, 11:20 PM   #22
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..
I did Keto....the no carb thing was way to restrictive for me with Family functions and the wife.
Same. I did keto cycles for about 6 months back in 1998-1999 and it really worked. Muscle sparing fat loss for me.

However the preriod where your body is changing from carb metabolism to ketone metabolism makes your head go fuzzy and does not feel nice. The first ever time is the worst.

And when in ketosis you think slower, move slower, etc. Your body can run on ketones but it really wants carbs. Not to mention your brain. All in all it's not something I'd do now given a family, children, more senior job, etc. It suited me back then but not now.
Quote:
I consume no protien powder or bars. Just take a multi vitamin and an E/C stack.
I'm a big believer in post workout carb drink followed by protein shake to maximise recovery and repair for building size.

I've used ECA stacks and they definitely work. They also make you go a bit hyper once you get the dose up there! The ECA stack is to increase your BMR and so burn some extra calories via passive means.

I'm not sure it makes sense to combine a catabolic tactic (ECA tack) with an anabolic tactic (weight training with protein). You're either in a mass building cycle or a cutting cycle, right?
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