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      06-23-2012, 04:51 AM   #1
Nick the Greek
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To badge or not to badge?

Seems to me that this is one of those 'marmite' questions.

I'm considering a new 328i MSport. BMW covers the car in 'M' badging - wheels, sills, steering wheel. Yet to place an 'M' badge on the boot is (rightly) a flogging offence. Why is this?



Also. Why are the debadged cars inevitably 318d?

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      06-23-2012, 05:21 AM   #2
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its your choice really and comes down to the look you want. My last car was a debadged 330d M Sport. I think the back looks cleaner without all the lettering but thats me. People believe (rightly IMHO) that the M3/M5 wanabees are the sados Like I say, your choice though.
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      06-23-2012, 08:09 AM   #3
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One M3 owner put on a 318i badge.
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      06-23-2012, 08:38 AM   #4
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Only cars I've ever had de-badged were my very first car a 1.1sx Mk3 Fiesta and also an XR2i I once had. (came de-badged)

All my cars since have been "badged" including 318i + 335.
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      06-23-2012, 08:47 AM   #5
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I had all my bimmers : e34,e36,e46 de-badged but i wouldn't de-badge M cars.
I have e90 325i atm and I'm going to do same like with previous cars.
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      06-23-2012, 09:33 AM   #6
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//m badges are the badge of cars built by M Division and since the m-sport version is purely a marketing name for a specific level of trim then it is not a M-car and therefore the //m badge is wrong - like putting a GTi badge on a 1400cc Golf.

But because BMW screw customers for around an extra 2k for the m-sport model and give them very little actual added value for their money, they stick little m badges on the wheels and steering wheel to make them think they have a M-car.

As for engine badge deletion, whilst some think it makes for cleaner lines I am sure that the majority do it to hide the smallness of their engine. The only reason I can think that it is mainly 318 owners who do it is so that they can honestly say "two litre" when asked the engine size.
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      06-23-2012, 10:45 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlanQS View Post
//m badges are the badge of cars built by M Division and since the m-sport version is purely a marketing name for a specific level of trim then it is not a M-car and therefore the //m badge is wrong - like putting a GTi badge on a 1400cc Golf.

But because BMW screw customers for around an extra 2k for the m-sport model and give them very little actual added value for their money, they stick little m badges on the wheels and steering wheel to make them think they have a M-car.

As for engine badge deletion, whilst some think it makes for cleaner lines I am sure that the majority do it to hide the smallness of their engine. The only reason I can think that it is mainly 318 owners who do it is so that they can honestly say "two litre" when asked the engine size.
+1 on that.

I think no true enthusiast actually sticks additonal badges on a car. They might remove them - but stuck on badges just look all wrong in my opinion.

With regards to a 318 and removing the badge....... a lot people would have no idea what size engine it is as a 318 looks virtually identical to a 320, 325, 330, 335. The only tell-tail signs are the exhausts and most average people would have no idea the difference.
Its also snob value with the neighbours. Would you want them thinking you only had a 318?
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      06-23-2012, 11:30 AM   #8
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I debaged mine because the rear end simply looks much cleaner...theres a 335i around where I live with M badges stuck all over the place (including one in the front grill). Given the concerns about BMW security at the moment I much perfer if people think I'm driving a 318 as oppose to a 335
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      06-23-2012, 11:32 AM   #9
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Tea leaves know what car is it though mate.
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      06-23-2012, 05:50 PM   #10
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Sorry Alan but I have to take issue with that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlanQS View Post
But because BMW screw customers for around an extra 2k for the m-sport model and give them very little actual added value for their money, they stick little m badges on the wheels and steering wheel to make them think they have a M-car.
I don't think I've been screwed. The ES, SE and M Sport are all trim levels and for my car I preferred the M Sport. I preferred the ride, the seats, the styling, the looks etc etc. I also know I don't drive an M car.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlanQS View Post
As for engine badge deletion, whilst some think it makes for cleaner lines I am sure that the majority do it to hide the smallness of their engine. The only reason I can think that it is mainly 318 owners who do it is so that they can honestly say "two litre" when asked the engine size.
I also specified the model deletion. Because I prefer the look. It's quite obviously a 320d and I'm not trying to hide that from anyone. Christ, I'd never start the engine if I wanted to do that.

I should also say that when I'm playing around with the BMW configurator one of the first options I tick is 'Model Designation Deletion' regardless of the vehicle.
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      06-23-2012, 06:18 PM   #11
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Well, I did say that some people preferred the "cleaner lines" i.e. not trying to hide the engine size so that's fine.

With regard to BMW screwing customers for the m-sport, I quite agree that it may be a popular trim level but it costs BMW very little to provide that trim level whilst costing the customer significantly more. Outwith the sports seats and 1" larger wheels, the front and rear bumpers, side trim, headlining and every other small detail doesn't cost BMW one extra penny.

Take the front and rear bumpers. The cost is most heavily affected by the number of units and since more m-sports are made than SE models (I'm taking the E92 as the example), in theory the m-sport bumpers should be cheaper than the SE and the same would go for the side trim, headlining, wheel, etc.

So I'm not mocking the m-sport per se (I prefer the looks of the m-sport in the LCI E92) I just don't like how BMW charge us through the nose for it.
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      06-25-2012, 04:31 AM   #12
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The rules are simple.
Adding badges = clownage
Removing badges = acceptable behaviour

I have no problem with 4 pot owners removing badges. The vast majority don't care or even know what the numbers on the back mean. Those that do know don't need the numbers to be able to tell and also don't care much anyway.

If I remove badges it's usually more to do with cleaning things up rather than trying to hide things (the badge area on the back of my A3 looked like a serial number A32.0TDI). I dare say some do it for the later reason, if that's the case these people clearly bought the wrong car.
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      06-25-2012, 05:57 AM   #13
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I have an 'M-sport' and I cringe at the 'M' badges in the interior. Certainly wouldn't stick one outside.
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      06-26-2012, 07:52 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlanQS View Post
Well, I did say that some people preferred the "cleaner lines" i.e. not trying to hide the engine size so that's fine.

With regard to BMW screwing customers for the m-sport, I quite agree that it may be a popular trim level but it costs BMW very little to provide that trim level whilst costing the customer significantly more. Outwith the sports seats and 1" larger wheels, the front and rear bumpers, side trim, headlining and every other small detail doesn't cost BMW one extra penny.

Take the front and rear bumpers. The cost is most heavily affected by the number of units and since more m-sports are made than SE models (I'm taking the E92 as the example), in theory the m-sport bumpers should be cheaper than the SE and the same would go for the side trim, headlining, wheel, etc.

So I'm not mocking the m-sport per se (I prefer the looks of the m-sport in the LCI E92) I just don't like how BMW charge us through the nose for it.
Hold on a second - just as an example, the contoured thumb grips and perforated leather on the M sport steering wheel must cost more to produce than the horrible SE plastic steering wheel? (I have an SE and bought the M sport wheel so I know the difference in quality well)

Same for the gear knob surely?

Larger wheels of course as you even point out will cost more.

Surely all the extra bolsters and contours of a sports seat must also cost more to make?

Bumpers - maybe you are right about those, but I have heard that manufacturing costs are affected by the curvature/contours on panels (as well as number of units like you say) and so perhaps even they cost more to make? I'm sure this why some cheap cars have very flat lifeless panels on them.

M sport suspension certainly costs more as BMW don't make the struts, they buy them from manufacturers and the more heavy duty stuff inevitably has a higher price.

I can only imagine that if it cost no more money to make 'nicer' seats, steering wheels, bumpers etc so long as you made loads of them, then most cars would be much nicer as standard, and manufacturers would just offer even better upgrades to charge a premium for...

If the price new is 2k more for an M Sport, I say thats very reasonable. Most of it comes back come resale anyway with M sports always selling for more than SE's.

Oh as for the badge, my 320d came de-badged and with a twin exhaust a la 335i/d - guessing previous owner wanted to look like something it wasn't. It does look very clean though and with the spoiler it has on it, the designation badge would probably make it look cluttered back there so I have left it as is.

Last edited by mobilejo; 06-26-2012 at 07:58 AM.
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      06-26-2012, 11:32 AM   #15
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I want to debadge, but scared it might leave horrible residues behind. Too scared I might scratch the paintwork.
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      06-26-2012, 12:39 PM   #16
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I think the M sport styling is worth the extra 2K, I would say that though.

Although, when I bought my 313 performance alloys I phoned BMW to ask what is the difference between the 313's and the 313M's and what do I get for 400 more, weight saving? extra width?

Answer = NOTHING - except 4 tiny M badges
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      06-26-2012, 04:20 PM   #17
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Let's be clear. BMW charge three grand for the MSport.......because they can!

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      06-26-2012, 04:26 PM   #18
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I dont know why ppl really make these threads, its personal taste. Why dont you just do both? remove it for a month and put it back if and when youre tired of that look. How hard is that? lol
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      06-26-2012, 06:31 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mobilejo View Post
Hold on a second - just as an example, the contoured thumb grips and perforated leather on the M sport steering wheel must cost more to produce than the horrible SE plastic steering wheel? (I have an SE and bought the M sport wheel so I know the difference in quality well)

Same for the gear knob surely?

Larger wheels of course as you even point out will cost more.

Surely all the extra bolsters and contours of a sports seat must also cost more to make?

Bumpers - maybe you are right about those, but I have heard that manufacturing costs are affected by the curvature/contours on panels (as well as number of units like you say) and so perhaps even they cost more to make? I'm sure this why some cheap cars have very flat lifeless panels on them.

M sport suspension certainly costs more as BMW don't make the struts, they buy them from manufacturers and the more heavy duty stuff inevitably has a higher price.

I can only imagine that if it cost no more money to make 'nicer' seats, steering wheels, bumpers etc so long as you made loads of them, then most cars would be much nicer as standard, and manufacturers would just offer even better upgrades to charge a premium for...

If the price new is 2k more for an M Sport, I say thats very reasonable. Most of it comes back come resale anyway with M sports always selling for more than SE's...
I don't know what kind of SE you had but the E92 SE wheel is a pretty thick leather wheel and IIRC, it has more pronounced thumb grips than the m-sport version which, for some tastes, is edging on too thick a rim. as for the gear knob and handbrake lever, pennies difference in price - for BMW that is.

I included the sports seats in my added value list, as with the alloys. The bumpers do not have sufficient difference in complexity to cost more to make and the suspension parts are all sourced from other suppliers and with the quantity of m-sports next to SEs I don't think BMW purchasing power will suffer any particular difference in unit cost.

I have no argument that some, maybe most, people will prefer the m-sport version of those components that differ between the two models, my beef is that BMW charge so much more for those differences. WHen I first looked into buying my coupe I was unfamiliar with the model terminology and assumed, with the 2k price difference, that the m-sport was a super-dooper version of the others rather than just a different trim level.

If you look at E92 335 models, the m-sport is nearly 2,000 dearer than the SE yet the SE already has the m-sport suspension and the Sports seats so just what, exactly, are you paying the money for?
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      06-27-2012, 01:31 AM   #20
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Mine was a pre lci e90. And the steering wheel was horrific to someone who has only ever had M Sport cars. Sounds like yours was a nice one.

Admittedly part of the price of M sport is just to make some profit off the desirability factor, but that is simple business sense. What a company charges isn't just about cost but about what the customer will pay - if I bought an SE then had to use aftermarket parts to improve suspension, seats, add a body kit, wheels etc it would cost me alot more and I'd end up with a load of SE bits I'd have to sell to recoup some cost. I wouldn't want to do that so I would see the M Sport pack (assuming I liked that look) as value for money, regardless of production cost.

I still say though, if better bits don't really cost the manufacturer any more, why aren't all cars nicer? Ford would sell more Focus' if they had M Sport-ish interiors as standard?
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      06-27-2012, 02:09 AM   #21
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I have a personal hatred of badges so have debadged me 330d and it looks much cleaner imo. I don't care if people think its a 318 I have nothing to prove.
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      06-27-2012, 02:28 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StretchNpoke
I dont know why ppl really make these threads, its personal taste. Why dont you just do both? remove it for a month and put it back if and when youre tired of that look. How hard is that? lol
I like that answer. 'Suck it and see' approach.
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