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      02-17-2017, 03:44 PM   #1
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Dyno BPC vs AA tune

My car is: N52, Manual, 70k miles, AA headers, AA Tune, Revo hose, K&N filter, 3 stage intake

This dyno chart is comparing AA tune purchased in November 2015 and BPC tune purchased in January 2017.

Many thanks to justpete, TheAxiom, JohnG7 for making this happen.

Several weeks ago I did dyno run with my AA tune. With help of forum members, I purchased BPC tune and today I did a dyno run with BPC tune.

In order to keep things as fair as possible, I tried to keep all factors as close as possible on both runs. Same dyno machine, same operator, similar conditions, no modifications to the car, etc.

Here are results of best runs from BPC and from AA tune:

Correction STD, Smoothing 5:
AA: 242whp and 214wtq
BPC: 242whp and 218wtq

or

Correction SAE, Smoothing 5:
AA: 236whp and 209wtq
BPC: 236whp and 212wtq




Looking at the final HP and TQ numbers, both tunes are very similar. However, BPC tune has higher TQs where it truly matters - at lower RPMs.



If you look at the TQs above, this is what matters the most when daily driving the car. Driving the car with this tune is actually more enjoyable since I don't have to shift as much. When cruising on hwy, I can stay in 6th gear without downshifting into 5th. The car feels way more nimble. Fuel economy is better too.

Added AFR:

Last edited by W37V; 02-17-2017 at 07:38 PM. Reason: Credited donors
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      02-17-2017, 03:56 PM   #2
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Sweet so bpc is better
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      02-17-2017, 04:03 PM   #3
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Wow... that's a pretty significant difference in torque below 3k. Thanks for sharing.
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      02-17-2017, 04:07 PM   #4
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So I guess I was not crazy after all. Both tunes numbers are very similar , one showing a more torque power at the lower rpms , HP curve looks pretty much the same

max HP is the same for both tunes and max torque is almost the same for both tunes

Again all the data loggers saying BPC was WAY better etc etc etc. There you go .

BPC tune may be the best option if you do not have a tune by a little bit which I had already said before , but I honestly do not see how to justify spending 700 US dollars to go from AA to BPC when I dont see the big gains difference between both tunes like some members here were trying to make it seem.

Thanks OP for posting a fair comparison between both

If AA ever comes out with an update tune , I can see them getting the torque numbers a bit up on lower rpms.

Last edited by rick100; 02-17-2017 at 04:47 PM.
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      02-17-2017, 04:33 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rick100 View Post
So I guess I was not crazy after all. Both tunes numbers are very similar , one showing a more torque power at the lower rpms , HP curve looks pretty much the same

max HP is the same for both tunes and max torque is almost the same for both tunes

Again all the data logger saying BPC was WAY better etc etc etc. There you go .

BPC tune may be the best option if you do not have a tune by a little bit which I had already said before , but I honestly do not see how to justify spending 700 US dollars to go from AA to BPC when I dont see the big gains difference between both tunes like some members here were trying to make it seem.

Thanks OP for posting a fair comparison between both

If AA ever comes out with an update tune , I can see them getting the torque numbers a bit up on lower rpms.
Exactly!

For people who have AA gen2 tune, it's not worth spending more on BPC. If you do not have a tune, go with BPC. I am looking forward to updated AA tune - if they ever release one. I truly hope they do.
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      02-17-2017, 04:41 PM   #6
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I honestly might go aa because i could save without having to buy the tool but i guess you have to ship them ur ecu
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      02-17-2017, 04:44 PM   #7
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You are the real MVP. Alot of work and money to do this comparison. This forum needs more people like you! Great stuff.
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      02-17-2017, 04:45 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by W37V View Post
Exactly!

For people who have AA gen2 tune, it's not worth spending more on BPC. If you do not have a tune, go with BPC. I am looking forward to updated AA tune - if they ever release one. I truly hope they do.
thanks for providing this information. Im tired of seeing all the other expert trying to trash other tunes without solid prove.

Just to be clear , I never said BPC tune sucked , or I never said it was not a better option for first timers or for guys with a bigger budget.

All I said was that I was not too sure it was worth for the guys with AA tune to spent 700 $ to jump over to BPC.


Your comparison is going to help a lot of the guys running AA tune to make a more informative decision on whether an increase in low end torque is worth the money. Maybe it is for some . Personally I m staying with AA tune , waiting for an update , as I would be able to justify spending 150 $ or so for an update tune than 700 $ or so for a brand new tune , that is just me

If you ever get AA to update their tune , it would be a great contribution to post a dyno again , as I don't see a huge difference between both tunes , so it should not be that hard to get there for AA, that is if they ever decide to update their tune

Also it is worth noticing that updating a tune with AA would be a lot cheaper than buying a whole new tune.
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      02-17-2017, 04:45 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by bmw201113 View Post
I honestly might go aa because i could save without having to buy the tool but i guess you have to ship them ur ecu
You can send your ECU to BPC as well. I think they would adjust the price accordingly. However, you should contact BPC for exact details.
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      02-17-2017, 04:49 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rick100 View Post
So I guess I was not crazy after all. Both tunes numbers are very similar , one showing a more torque power at the lower rpms , HP curve looks pretty much the same

max HP is the same for both tunes and max torque is almost the same for both tunes

Again all the data loggers saying BPC was WAY better etc etc etc. There you go .

BPC tune may be the best option if you do not have a tune by a little bit which I had already said before , but I honestly do not see how to justify spending 700 US dollars to go from AA to BPC when I dont see the big gains difference between both tunes like some members here were trying to make it seem.

Thanks OP for posting a fair comparison between both

If AA ever comes out with an update tune , I can see them getting the torque numbers a bit up on lower rpms.
Quote:
Originally Posted by W37V View Post
Exactly!

For people who have AA gen2 tune, it's not worth spending more on BPC. If you do not have a tune, go with BPC. I am looking forward to updated AA tune - if they ever release one. I truly hope they do.

Let's not get carried away -


http://www.e90post.com/forums/showpo...&postcount=624

Whatever tune he has, isn't the same one that I have, that's for sure.
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      02-17-2017, 04:50 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Volasko View Post
You are the real MVP. Alot of work and money to do this comparison. This forum needs more people like you! Great stuff.
Thank you!

But, I do NOT deserve all the credit. Several forum members donated money towards this experiment: TheAxiom, justpete, JohnG7.
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      02-17-2017, 04:50 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmw201113 View Post
I honestly might go aa because i could save without having to buy the tool but i guess you have to ship them ur ecu
they have AA dealers in different areas, and they can do it there for you instead of you shipping the ECU to them.

The shop in toronto , gave me an updated tune for the 3 stage intake and headers for 100 $ or so I think . In case I lose the tune , they give you a free one time reload , that was more of a worry when i was under warranty and I was worry the dealer was going to overwrite the tune
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      02-17-2017, 04:55 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheAxiom View Post
Let's not get carried away -


http://www.e90post.com/forums/showpo...&postcount=624

Whatever tune he has, isn't the same one that I have, that's for sure.
and again , I said it from the start, if you take your car to BPC you may get a more custom tune , same as you taking your car to AA.

Someone would actually have to go to AA get their car tune there , dyno their car, then go to BPC get their car tune there and do a dyno .

Noone is going to do it , and we will never know the true difference.

This test is the closest we are going to get comparing both tunes, and the results are not that different after all , just like I said it in the beggining

And I was not the one getting carried away , as I was always on the fence , until solid proving. Reason I wanted to see a t least a 0 -60 ran .While other guys were saying BPC was WAY better than BPC , etc ,etc ,etc and AA was trash without any solid prove

Funny enough same guys were also saying turbocharging a 328 was not possible if I remember correctly.
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      02-17-2017, 05:04 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheAxiom View Post
Let's not get carried away -


http://www.e90post.com/forums/showpo...&postcount=624

Whatever tune he has, isn't the same one that I have, that's for sure.
You are absolutely correct. You are running alpha-N while mine is MAF OTS.

Also, the dyno sheets you posted are for STD correction 0.

If I use STD and correction 0, then the graphs look like this:
AA: 243 BPC: 242


Bob said that with fuel adjustment I could get few more hp on top.

I am not advertising for anyone here, but merely trying to objectively present the data.

Subjectively: I enjoy driving with BPC very much and I highly recommend it.
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      02-17-2017, 05:08 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rick100 View Post
So I guess I was not crazy after all. Both tunes numbers are very similar , one showing a more torque power at the lower rpms , HP curve looks pretty much the same

max HP is the same for both tunes and max torque is almost the same for both tunes

Again all the data loggers saying BPC was WAY better etc etc etc. There you go .

BPC tune may be the best option if you do not have a tune by a little bit which I had already said before , but I honestly do not see how to justify spending 700 US dollars to go from AA to BPC when I dont see the big gains difference between both tunes like some members here were trying to make it seem.

Thanks OP for posting a fair comparison between both

If AA ever comes out with an update tune , I can see them getting the torque numbers a bit up on lower rpms.
It's a shame tunes cost you guys so much.

Is the BPC off the shelf or custom tuned?
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Originally Posted by TheAxiom View Post
FYI - I don't drive hard at all. So I'm not interested in more clamping force when I won't use it. Even on my car, I take it easy. It's just too loud to be enjoyable
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      02-17-2017, 05:09 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rick100 View Post
and again , I said it from the start, if you take your car to BPC you may get a more custom tune , same as you taking your car to AA.

Someone would actually have to go to AA get their car tune there , dyno their car, then go to BPC get their car tune there and do a dyno .

Noone is going to do it , and we will never know the true difference.

This test is the closest we are going to get comparing both tunes, and the results are not that different after all , just like I said it in the beggining

And I was not the one getting carried away , as I was always on the fence , until solid proving. Reason I wanted to see a t least a 0 -60 ran .While other guys were saying BPC was WAY better than BPC , etc ,etc ,etc and AA was trash without any solid prove

Funny enough same guys were also saying turbocharging a 328 was not possible if I remember correctly.
1. Mine is off the shelf, anyone can buy it.
2. Agreed, a dyno tune would be similar

I will say, I'm more surprised at what I see more than the numbers. Neither AA or BPC move any of the DISA setpoints, which is a sore spot for me. Peak power is going to be similar, there is only so much cam retard that can be dialed in, as well as timing, but for some reason AA just stops tuning at 6700RPM, and left the stock limiter in, BPC did not, but they also didn't move DISA transition.
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      02-17-2017, 05:09 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rick100 View Post
So I guess I was not crazy after all. Both tunes numbers are very similar , one showing a more torque power at the lower rpms , HP curve looks pretty much the same

max HP is the same for both tunes and max torque is almost the same for both tunes

Again all the data loggers saying BPC was WAY better etc etc etc. There you go .

BPC tune may be the best option if you do not have a tune by a little bit which I had already said before , but I honestly do not see how to justify spending 700 US dollars to go from AA to BPC when I dont see the big gains difference between both tunes like some members here were trying to make it seem.

Thanks OP for posting a fair comparison between both

If AA ever comes out with an update tune , I can see them getting the torque numbers a bit up on lower rpms.


You guys hit the nail on the head. There is no doubt (and this dyno backs up) the BPC tune shows gains where I value gains, moreso than AA. BUT, hardly worth jumping from AA to BPC as a bargain.

W37V- Thank you for doing this. This helped me immensely, even though I really hoped the gains were more. There is no magic, just plain physics

With this dyno and everyone's opinions prove, AA left room for improvement, an upgrade makes sense. Thanks guys.

Now watching other threads showing the progress on possible tunes by way of DCAN add more excitement. More options is gooood!
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      02-17-2017, 05:12 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Torgus View Post
It's a shame tunes cost you guys so much.

Is the BPC off the shelf or custom tuned?
Im assuming BPC is off the shelf tune , same as the AA tune.

As I m also positive that taking your car to AA and BPC to get it done there will probably give you better numbers as it would be more of a custom tune

Custom tune is better than off the shelf tune , at least for what I ve seen on other cars.

For me it is even worst as 700 US is like a 1000 canadian

Although my situation is totally different , I m already full bolts on with AA tune , so I m looking at this different than someone that does not have a tune. For me it is not worth spending close to a 1000 $ for a little more power in the lower rpms and same max power
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      02-17-2017, 05:16 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheAxiom View Post
1. Mine is off the shelf, anyone can buy it.
2. Agreed, a dyno tune would be similar

I will say, I'm more surprised at what I see more than the numbers. Neither AA or BPC move any of the DISA setpoints, which is a sore spot for me. Peak power is going to be similar, there is only so much cam retard that can be dialed in, as well as timing, but for some reason AA just stops tuning at 6700RPM, and left the stock limiter in, BPC did not, but they also didn't move DISA transition.
my only beef with you is that you and other members were trashing AA before solid prove, thats about it . We have a fair comparison now ,so that's that .

and its not that I m defending AA. But they put a lot of work in this platform , they were first to come up with a proper tune ( which has been improved by a bit by BPC) and they were first to develop affordable headers for us . They supported this platform from the beginning and a lot of us saw results

again thanks OP , this will clear a lot of things for people like me running AA tune already.

And I do not disagree BPC is a better choice for first timers, I dont think I ever argued that. I still stand by saying , its not worth it for guys already running AA tune , at least not for me .
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      02-17-2017, 05:18 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by W37V View Post
You are absolutely correct. You are running alpha-N while mine is MAF OTS.

Also, the dyno sheets you posted are for STD correction 0.

If I use STD and correction 0, then the graphs look like this:
AA: 243 BPC: 242


Bob said that with fuel adjustment I could get few more hp on top.

I am not advertising for anyone here, but merely trying to objectively present the data.

Subjectively: I enjoy driving with BPC very much and I highly recommend it.
If I remember correctly, smoothing put it down half a HP - also, my graph starts at 3200RPM (instead of 2000RPM) which means I miss the first DISA transition where I should make peak torque.

Either way, I'm not satisfied with such a terrible comparison of my own, so I have a follow up planned.

For what it's worth, I don't think the differences are with the "ALFA N" tune itself. I think the big difference in power comes from the ability to completely remove the TB and run a larger intake tube into the manifold, without having to worry about the MAF scaling. Just being ALFA N on it's own doesn't do it.

Oh, and I do have more mods.
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      02-17-2017, 05:19 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Torgus View Post
It's a shame tunes cost you guys so much.

Is the BPC off the shelf or custom tuned?
both are OTS.

It is a shame, but it just shows how dedicated and big enthusiasts N52 folks are.
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      02-17-2017, 05:21 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheAxiom View Post
If I remember correctly, smoothing put it down half a HP - also, my graph starts at 3200RPM (instead of 2000RPM) which means I miss the first DISA transition where I should make peak torque.

Either way, I'm not satisfied with such a terrible comparison of my own, so I have a follow up planned.

For what it's worth, I don't think the differences are with the "ALFA N" tune itself. I think the big difference in power comes from the ability to completely remove the TB and run a larger intake tube into the manifold, without having to worry about the MAF scaling. Just being ALFA N on it's own doesn't do it.

Oh, and I do have more mods.
I am actually debating (in my head) if I should get N54 manifold and go Aplha N. Your car is def stronger. I can't wait for you to do your dyno. I am dying to see those numbers.
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