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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > NA Engine (non-turbo) / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications > Is Active Autowerke developing a SC for the N52?



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      06-28-2012, 07:44 PM   #23
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Reading comprehension much?

Aside from never even hinting at getting 100bhp out of a NA tuning program, I never claimed that a supercharger would only add 20-25bhp. If you read my post carefully and with some semblance of common sense you would see that I am claiming that it is highly likely that a supercharger kit would only give gains 20 to 25 horsepower above what an optimized NA approach would yield. I don't think you'll be seeing reliability at much over 300 crank. The N51/2 has an alloy block and the automatic transmission was not fit for duty in BMW's own 335 with 300 lb-ft of torque. Nobody is dumb enough to think that a supercharger attached to a 3.0L engine is going to yield only 25 horsepower.
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      06-28-2012, 08:22 PM   #24
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You're right I'm sorry. You're only interested in coaxing around 50 more out of your car. Which is already possible. We also have far different desires when it comes to our cars, which begs the question why do you choose to poke at people who are interested in something like a SC, when you clearly arent? Why not just stay out of the discussion?

And once again you're just wrong on the gains to be had out of a SC. Just taking a look at AA's track record on the multiple systems they've made you can see that you would get a lot more than your estimated 70-75bhp. They took a M54 from 235 stock to 405. Why are you so sceptical that the N52 would see less than half of those gains?
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      06-29-2012, 12:02 AM   #25
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because the engines in the e90 and e49 are different and made of different materials with different technology
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      06-29-2012, 12:50 AM   #26
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I would definitely consider a super charger from AA... Super charged e46 are pushing over 400 with high boost which meens more heat and pressure, so I don't see a problem with getting addl 70 HP on a well designed unit for our car.. I don't think a stage 2 will be available just because of the materials used on e90 would hold up consistently...
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      06-29-2012, 01:11 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TroyDeJ View Post
because the engines in the e90 and e49 are different and made of different materials with different technology
The M54 was an all aluminum engine. The magnesium/aluminum on the N52 makes it lighter, not extremely weaker. As far as different technology, the N52 is more advanced. Even more so than the N54 is.

I understand that BMW deemed it unacceptable for boost by THEIR standards, but that doesnt mean that we all operate in the same realm of safety and restrictions. AFAIK lightning ran that Arma on his car and other than it shredding itself it didnt destroy the engine, and that was on the 2.5 pushing 300 hp to the wheel. It doesnt seem unreasonable that a SC that wasnt developed 20 years ago, that doesnt push a ton of boost at low rpms would be just fine on the 3.0 N52.
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      06-29-2012, 02:33 AM   #28
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Also if you look at AA superchargers alot them are pushing the cars up to 350+hp on the 323,325, and 330, with no problem. The 330 is running 405hp. But the torque is not there the 330 is saying 285 torque.

So why not push the E90 N52 to 400hp but keep the torque done at around 300 so you don't fuck up the tranny. Which I believe is rated at 325 or something like that, can't remember. I bet you will see out cars pushing the high hp but the torque is going to be the deciding factor.

We will have to wait and see what happens.
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      06-29-2012, 03:13 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CombatNinja View Post
Forget forced induction and all the attendant hassles it brings along. Where is the complete NA tuning solution consisting of:

* 3-stage intake manifold
* headers that delete the primary cats with O2 sims
* catalyst-back exhaust
* a software tune to tie it all together

This should be able to coax at least 280bhp out of this 3 liter engine. After all, BMW managed 255bhp or 85hp/L out of it with the 330i. I would think that a competent tuner could manage 90hp/L using that car's showpiece (the 3-stage manifold) and being freed from several restrictions the manufacturer faces. Namely, more stringent emissions standards and the need to write engine management code to account for owners that will put 87 octane in the car.
As fired up as everyone gets about forced induction for this platform, I firmly believe it is not the right answer. My solution should cost about 1/3 what a blower would run you, won't increase the weight of the car or throw off the platform's excellent handling balance, should not adversely effect reliability in any way, and will exact no penalty in fuel economy provided you drive the car sedately.
And before someone chimes in that all of these products are available in the BMW tuning world from various vendors, don't bother. There is no legitimate header solution with proper customer service and backing. At least not to where I would happily hand over my money. I'm looking for one tuner to develop the whole system, dyno test it and offer it as a complete package at a set price. The key to the N52 is in the tuning so the only way to extract maximum reliable power is to create the tune for these specific parts. Sure, the AA tune will work with the 3-stage manifold but is it getting all that it could out of it? And what about headers?
I think that a great many 328 owners would be very satisfied at the 280bhp level for $2800-3300 out of pocket ($300-400 for a tune, $900-1000 for the manifold, $600-700 for headers, $600-700 for an exhaust and $400-500 to install it). Heck, if you want to DIY you could be done for a little over $2,000. That becomes a much more tempting proposition than dropping $6000 on a blower that is not likely to give but 20-25 more horsepower. You can likely trade out of your car into a warrantied, lower mileage 335 for the same or less cash than that. The sums just don't add up.
I have an E91 with N52 , just like you, so I would definitely go for this and avoid supercharging. If I lived in Europe. I'd probably have bought the 335i, 330d or 335d version of the E91, but in N. America we're stuck with the N52-engined 328i/xi and that's it.

I'm gonna guess that there's simply not enough demand to stimulate the development of viable N52 mods. Peeps who would want more power generally start with an E90/92/93 with N54/55 and go from there. Very few E91 wagons are sold in US/Canada...a couple thousand per year?...the number being modded are likely miniscule.

It's a sad situation for wagon enthusiasts like you and me.
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      06-29-2012, 09:20 AM   #30
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If they bring an S/C solution to market, I'd probably be interested in buying it. But like what most are saying, I'm content with the 3-stage mani and the tune to go aloneside it.

Now, I'd like for a 'specialty' tune to be developed that utilizes the 3IM even more (im sure its possible).

280hp for our cars is pretty good. But if they come out with a 350hp+ solution, I won't complain either. I'm sure none of us will.
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      06-29-2012, 09:25 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hooy View Post
If AA makes a kit, I'd actually consider it if I found a lump of money somewhere.

Shit like this needs a real company to back it.
x2

Only chance I'd give my car to go SC'd is through AA.

Looking to get their exhaust and Stage 2 (or subsequent) tune eventually.

BTW, willing to bet 330's and 325's (and some 328's) with ZF transmisssion's will handle the power better than the GM tranny 328's.

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      06-29-2012, 10:04 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TroyDeJ View Post
MMW is already making a supercharger for the n52. patmos330, these engines cant handle high boost levels because the engine blocks are made out of aluminum and magnesium as well as not having the oil cooling capabilities. The transmissions in the 325/328/330 are also not rated for high HP. Because of the low boost levels they really cant produce that much HP. People always say it and its true, if you want a FI e90 a 335 is really the best option unless you have it set in you heart to have the fastest n52 around.
Which would be cool, because very few would buy this if it was released.
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      06-29-2012, 12:35 PM   #33
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Quote:
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Which would be cool, because very few would buy this if it was released.
Is that a fact? Plenty of people have expressed interest in a SC in this thread, in ANY of Gavin's threads as well. Every time he posts anything people bug him about updates on the SC.

Actually, if this was released very few e90s on the road wouldnt have one.
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      06-29-2012, 12:40 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patmos330 View Post
Is that a fact? Plenty of people have expressed interest in a SC in this thread, in ANY of Gavin's threads as well. Every time he posts anything people bug him about updates on the SC.

Actually, if this was released very few e90s on the road wouldnt have one.
i doubt that, honestly. talk is cheap, and i'd say very few e90s on the road today have ANY sort of modification

that being said, with as many e90's that get sold, i'm sure you could make a pretty penny on sheer volume alone
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      06-29-2012, 12:48 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patmos330 View Post
Is that a fact? Plenty of people have expressed interest in a SC in this thread, in ANY of Gavin's threads as well. Every time he posts anything people bug him about updates on the SC.

Actually, if this was released very few e90s on the road wouldnt have one.
Yea sure everyone has 5-6k to drop at once on a sc.
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      06-29-2012, 02:51 PM   #36
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Quote:
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I was being sarcastic. He stated that very few people would buy it, and I see that as an ignorant statement so I sarcastically said one of my own.



I'm sorry that you dont? There are 5-6 people in this thread saying they'd be interested, not counting the ones who mentioned money would be a factor. Thats upwards of 30 grand to be made in a two page thread. When you head over to Gavin's I'm betting you would see a lot more interested people. Hell I think 1,000 on the negligible gains you get from headers isnt worth it but there are plenty of people that went that route. While that isnt for me I'm not going to sit here and deny that theres a market for it.

I'm glad I dont live in a world where any mod you deem unnecessary or too expensive wouldnt be made.
Dude get the hell over it. You're all worked up from what I said. Get a life. I'm sure the majority of people here have 5-6k but we have things called mortgages and families. Why waste that much on the N52? Sell your car and put all that down for something already turbocharged. Didn't I say it would be cool if someone did it? I'm not against it. Now go on and get out of here, kid.

If you joined this forum to criticize everything people say don't waste your time.
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      06-29-2012, 06:19 PM   #37
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It's a sad situation for wagon enthusiasts like you and me.
Indeed... yet they bring the X1 here with the N55?!? Unreal...
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      06-30-2012, 02:15 AM   #38
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Indeed... yet they bring the X1 here with the N55?!? Unreal...
X1 is fugly with any engine.
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      07-02-2012, 02:39 PM   #39
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i understand the "just go buy a 335" complaint. But honestly thats not a very unique or impressive idea. Given thats what most people do. Id be more impressed by an E90 330i supercharged than a 335 with a tune and exhaust. You took a car that was already fast and....made it into something thats faster than before. Not very impressive given it doesnt take a lot of skill to accomplish.
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      07-02-2012, 08:17 PM   #40
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lol don't forget about the ultra-amazing electric supercharger!

Quote:
Originally Posted by wleonard View Post
i understand the "just go buy a 335" complaint. But honestly thats not a very unique or impressive idea. Given thats what most people do. Id be more impressed by an E90 330i supercharged than a 335 with a tune and exhaust. You took a car that was already fast and....made it into something thats faster than before. Not very impressive given it doesnt take a lot of skill to accomplish.
i'm only impressed when people do some major component swaps like the RBturbos, or add on a Meth kit, maybe some catless downpipes and killer exhaust... that's where it gets fun... the tunes themselves aren't that flattering.
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      07-02-2012, 10:46 PM   #41
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lol don't forget about the ultra-amazing electric supercharger!



i'm only impressed when people do some major component swaps like the RBturbos, or add on a Meth kit, maybe some catless downpipes and killer exhaust... that's where it gets fun... the tunes themselves aren't that flattering.
I know right!?!?
~85 whp gain for $450 is sooo boring.
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      07-02-2012, 11:37 PM   #42
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HP is HP..... 335 is definitely tempting!
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      07-03-2012, 02:05 AM   #43
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HP is HP..... 335 is definitely tempting!
Yes me too
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      07-03-2012, 01:07 PM   #44
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I know right!?!?
~85 whp gain for $450 is sooo boring.
I don't think you are getting my point. I said I do understand the complaint about why do this when you can go spend 40k on a 335. My point is yes i agree, but taking something thats already fast from the factory and making it faster by just throwing a tune on it isnt really all that impressive. His point is correct. A turbo swap is an amazing mod. But my point is I would be way more impressed to see an n52 break 300 whp than seeing a 335 break the 400 mark with dp and a tune. Thats not that hard to do. the n52 is far more unique than the 335. Not saying anybody is right or wrong here. Just saying hey....thats actually pretty impressive.
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