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      06-28-2012, 02:46 PM   #23
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      06-28-2012, 02:54 PM   #24
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The Obama Administration -- Taking money from people who have it & giving free shit to people who contribute NOTHING back to society.

When you contribute (pay taxes), you have a right to be upset how money is being spent. When you see it's being spent on bullshit (free cell phones, free internet) that you should be working for, then there is a problem. You would think that the government would encourage people to do something with their lives & become contributing members of society (and pay taxes instead of developing a financial dependency on Govt. money), but the current Adminstration is creating a country where more & more people take, and we expect the middle class (much larger than the 1% every bitches about) to foot the bill. If we continue in the direction we're going, the "class division" that all these Occupy Wall St protestors bitch about is going to become a reality: a lot of poor people & a very small population of wealthy rich.
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      06-28-2012, 02:56 PM   #25
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I see it this way...if this healthcare law was repealed, then those who can afford health insurance, but choose not to have it and then end up getting sick should just be left to die and suffer the consequences they put themselves in.

However, if we as a country aren't going to do that then we should ensure that everyone has healthcare and pays into the system so situations like that don't happen.

It's either one or the other. The last thing I want to hear is some radical screaming how unconstitutional this is and that they shouldn't have to pay for health insurance if they don't want it, but then gets sick and expects help when everyone knows they won't be able to afford the care? Please.

I agree the problem is the people will not let these people suffer from their own decision, also these same people who choose not to have it, will be the first one running to the hospital wanting fix when they abused themselves and do now want to pay for it and let everyone else cover their costs.

No hospital will turn someone away if they can not pay, they may not get the best care buy somehow they will not die.

I once has an experience of going to the emergency room for a stupid thing I did, I had insurance and when they admitted me they asked if I had insurance and what kind and such, gave them all the information and I have good insurance at the time. The waiting room was full of people and I figured I was in for a long wait. About 30 minutes later I get called up and escorted to and exam room. After all said and down I say to the Intern taking care of me what gives how did I jump the line, he looks at me and said I suspect you have insurance. Everyone else in the room had none and they were not getting service fast unless they were dying.
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      06-28-2012, 03:18 PM   #26
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      06-28-2012, 03:20 PM   #27
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I really do not understand why the wealthy people in this country are so upset ...
Define "wealthy". According to many, anyone who drives a bimmer is wealthy. Do you feel wealthy?
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      06-28-2012, 03:26 PM   #28
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'Okay, explained like you're a five year-old (well, okay, maybe a bit older), without too much oversimplification, and (hopefully) without sounding too biased:
What people call "Obamacare" is actually the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act. However, people were calling it "Obamacare" before everyone even hammered out what it would be. It's a term mostly used by people who don't like the PPACA, and it's become popularized in part because PPACA is a really long and awkward name, even when you turn it into an acronym like that.

Anyway, the PPACA made a bunch of new rules regarding health care, with the purpose of making health care more affordable for everyone. Opponents of the PPACA, on the other hand, feel that the rules it makes take away too many freedoms and force people (both individuals and businesses) to do things they shouldn't have to.

So what does it do? Well, here is everything, in the order of when it goes into effect (because some of it happens later than other parts of it):

Already in effect:

It allows the Food and Drug Administration to approve more generic drugs (making for more competition in the market to drive down prices)

It increases the rebates on drugs people get through Medicare (so drugs cost less)

It establishes a non-profit group, that the government doesn't directly control, [1] PCORI, to study different kinds of treatments to see what works better and is the best use of money. ( [2] Citation: Page 665, sec. 1181 )

It makes chain restaurants like McDonalds display how many calories are in all of their foods, so people can have an easier time making choices to eat healthy. ( [3] Citation: Page 499, sec. 4205 )

It makes a "high-risk pool" for people with pre-existing conditions. Basically, this is a way to slowly ease into getting rid of "pre-existing conditions" altogether. For now, people who already have health issues that would be considered "pre-existing conditions" can still get insurance, but at different rates than people without them.

It renews some old policies, and calls for the appointment of various positions.

It creates a new 10% tax on indoor tanning booths. ( [4] Citation: Page 923, sec. 5000B )

It says that health insurance companies can no longer tell customers that they won't get any more coverage because they have hit a "lifetime limit". Basically, if someone has paid for health insurance, that company can't tell that person that he's used that insurance too much throughout his life so they won't cover him any more. They can't do this for lifetime spending, and they're limited in how much they can do this for yearly spending. ( [5] Citation: Page 14, sec. 2711 )

Kids can continue to be covered by their parents' health insurance until they're 26.

No more "pre-existing conditions" for kids under the age of 19.

Insurers have less ability to change the amount customers have to pay for their plans.

People in a "Medicare Gap" get a rebate to make up for the extra money they would otherwise have to spend.

Insurers can't just drop customers once they get sick. ( [6] Citation: Page 14, sec. 2712 )

Insurers have to tell customers what they're spending money on. (Instead of just "administrative fee", they have to be more specific).

Insurers need to have an appeals process for when they turn down a claim, so customers have some manner of recourse other than a lawsuit when they're turned down.

New ways to stop fraud are created.


Medicare extends to smaller hospitals.

Medicare patients with chronic illnesses must be monitored more thoroughly.

Reduces the costs for some companies that handle benefits for the elderly.

A new website is made to give people insurance and health information. (I think this is it: [7] http://www.healthcare.gov/ ).

A credit program is made that will make it easier for business to invest in new ways to treat illness.

A limit is placed on just how much of a percentage of the money an insurer makes can be profit, to make sure they're not price-gouging customers.

A limit is placed on what type of insurance accounts can be used to pay for over-the-counter drugs without a prescription. Basically, your insurer isn't paying for the Aspirin you bought for that hangover.

Employers need to list the benefits they provided to employees on their tax forms.

8/1/2012
Any health plans sold after this date must provide preventative care (mammograms, colonoscopies, etc.) without requiring any sort of co-pay or charge.

1/1/2013
If you make over $200,000 a year, your taxes go up a tiny bit (0.9%). Edit: To address those who take issue with the word "tiny", a change of 0.9% is relatively tiny. Any look at how taxes have fluctuated over the years will reveal that a change of less than one percent is miniscule, especially when we're talking about people in the top 5% of earners.

1/1/2014
This is when a lot of the really big changes happen.

No more "pre-existing conditions". At all. People will be charged the same regardless of their medical history.

If you can afford insurance but do not get it, you will be charged a fee. This is the "mandate" that people are talking about. Basically, it's a trade-off for the "pre-existing conditions" bit, saying that since insurers now have to cover you regardless of what you have, you can't just wait to buy insurance until you get sick. Otherwise no one would buy insurance until they needed it. You can opt not to get insurance, but you'll have to pay the fee instead, unless of course you're not buying insurance because you just can't afford it.

Insurers now can't do annual spending caps. Their customers can get as much health care in a given year as they need. ( [8] Citation: Page 14, sec. 2711 )

Make it so more poor people can get Medicaid by making the low-income cut-off higher.
Small businesses get some tax credits for two years.

Businesses with over 50 employees must offer health insurance to full-time employees, or pay a penalty.

Limits how high of an annual deductible insurers can charge customers.
Cut some Medicare spending

Place a $2500 limit on tax-free spending on FSAs (accounts for medical spending). Basically, people using these accounts now have to pay taxes on any money over $2500 they put into them.

Establish health insurance exchanges and rebates for the lower and middle-class, basically making it so they have an easier time getting affordable medical coverage.

Congress and Congressional staff will only be offered the same insurance offered to people in the insurance exchanges, rather than Federal Insurance. Basically, we won't be footing their health care bills any more than any other American citizen.

A new tax on pharmaceutical companies.

A new tax on the purchase of medical devices.

A new tax on insurance companies based on their market share. Basically, the more of the market they control, the more they'll get taxed.

The amount you can deduct from your taxes for medical expenses increases.

1/1/2015

Doctors' pay will be determined by the quality of their care, not how many people they treat. Edit: a_real_MD addresses questions regarding this one in far more detail and with far more expertise than I can offer in [9] this post. If you're looking for a more in-depth explanation of this one (as many of you are), I highly recommend you give his post a read.

1/1/2017

If any state can come up with their own plan, one which gives citizens the same level of care at the same price as the PPACA, they can ask the Secretary of Health and Human Resources for permission to do their plan instead of the PPACA. So if they can get the same results without, say, the mandate, they can be allowed to do so. Vermont, for example, has expressed a desire to just go straight to single-payer (in simple terms, everyone is covered, and medical expenses are paid by taxpayers).

2018

All health care plans must now cover preventative care (not just the new ones).

A new tax on "Cadillac" health care plans (more expensive plans for rich people who want fancier coverage).

2020

The elimination of the "Medicare gap"
.
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      06-28-2012, 03:36 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CollinsE90 View Post
'Okay, explained like you're a five year-old (well, okay, maybe a bit older), without too much oversimplification, and (hopefully) without sounding too biased:
What people call "Obamacare" is actually the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act. However, people were calling it "Obamacare" before everyone even hammered out what it would be. It's a term mostly used by people who don't like the PPACA, and it's become popularized in part because PPACA is a really long and awkward name, even when you turn it into an acronym like that.

Anyway, the PPACA made a bunch of new rules regarding health care, with the purpose of making health care more affordable for everyone. Opponents of the PPACA, on the other hand, feel that the rules it makes take away too many freedoms and force people (both individuals and businesses) to do things they shouldn't have to.

So what does it do? Well, here is everything, in the order of when it goes into effect (because some of it happens later than other parts of it):

Already in effect:

It allows the Food and Drug Administration to approve more generic drugs (making for more competition in the market to drive down prices)

It increases the rebates on drugs people get through Medicare (so drugs cost less)

It establishes a non-profit group, that the government doesn't directly control, [1] PCORI, to study different kinds of treatments to see what works better and is the best use of money. ( [2] Citation: Page 665, sec. 1181 )

It makes chain restaurants like McDonalds display how many calories are in all of their foods, so people can have an easier time making choices to eat healthy. ( [3] Citation: Page 499, sec. 4205 )

It makes a "high-risk pool" for people with pre-existing conditions. Basically, this is a way to slowly ease into getting rid of "pre-existing conditions" altogether. For now, people who already have health issues that would be considered "pre-existing conditions" can still get insurance, but at different rates than people without them.

It renews some old policies, and calls for the appointment of various positions.

It creates a new 10% tax on indoor tanning booths. ( [4] Citation: Page 923, sec. 5000B )

It says that health insurance companies can no longer tell customers that they won't get any more coverage because they have hit a "lifetime limit". Basically, if someone has paid for health insurance, that company can't tell that person that he's used that insurance too much throughout his life so they won't cover him any more. They can't do this for lifetime spending, and they're limited in how much they can do this for yearly spending. ( [5] Citation: Page 14, sec. 2711 )

Kids can continue to be covered by their parents' health insurance until they're 26.

No more "pre-existing conditions" for kids under the age of 19.

Insurers have less ability to change the amount customers have to pay for their plans.

People in a "Medicare Gap" get a rebate to make up for the extra money they would otherwise have to spend.

Insurers can't just drop customers once they get sick. ( [6] Citation: Page 14, sec. 2712 )

Insurers have to tell customers what they're spending money on. (Instead of just "administrative fee", they have to be more specific).

Insurers need to have an appeals process for when they turn down a claim, so customers have some manner of recourse other than a lawsuit when they're turned down.

New ways to stop fraud are created.


Medicare extends to smaller hospitals.

Medicare patients with chronic illnesses must be monitored more thoroughly.

Reduces the costs for some companies that handle benefits for the elderly.

A new website is made to give people insurance and health information. (I think this is it: [7] http://www.healthcare.gov/ ).

A credit program is made that will make it easier for business to invest in new ways to treat illness.

A limit is placed on just how much of a percentage of the money an insurer makes can be profit, to make sure they're not price-gouging customers.

A limit is placed on what type of insurance accounts can be used to pay for over-the-counter drugs without a prescription. Basically, your insurer isn't paying for the Aspirin you bought for that hangover.

Employers need to list the benefits they provided to employees on their tax forms.

8/1/2012
Any health plans sold after this date must provide preventative care (mammograms, colonoscopies, etc.) without requiring any sort of co-pay or charge.

1/1/2013
If you make over $200,000 a year, your taxes go up a tiny bit (0.9%). Edit: To address those who take issue with the word "tiny", a change of 0.9% is relatively tiny. Any look at how taxes have fluctuated over the years will reveal that a change of less than one percent is miniscule, especially when we're talking about people in the top 5% of earners.

1/1/2014
This is when a lot of the really big changes happen.

No more "pre-existing conditions". At all. People will be charged the same regardless of their medical history.

If you can afford insurance but do not get it, you will be charged a fee. This is the "mandate" that people are talking about. Basically, it's a trade-off for the "pre-existing conditions" bit, saying that since insurers now have to cover you regardless of what you have, you can't just wait to buy insurance until you get sick. Otherwise no one would buy insurance until they needed it. You can opt not to get insurance, but you'll have to pay the fee instead, unless of course you're not buying insurance because you just can't afford it.

Insurers now can't do annual spending caps. Their customers can get as much health care in a given year as they need. ( [8] Citation: Page 14, sec. 2711 )

Make it so more poor people can get Medicaid by making the low-income cut-off higher.
Small businesses get some tax credits for two years.

Businesses with over 50 employees must offer health insurance to full-time employees, or pay a penalty.

Limits how high of an annual deductible insurers can charge customers.
Cut some Medicare spending

Place a $2500 limit on tax-free spending on FSAs (accounts for medical spending). Basically, people using these accounts now have to pay taxes on any money over $2500 they put into them.

Establish health insurance exchanges and rebates for the lower and middle-class, basically making it so they have an easier time getting affordable medical coverage.

Congress and Congressional staff will only be offered the same insurance offered to people in the insurance exchanges, rather than Federal Insurance. Basically, we won't be footing their health care bills any more than any other American citizen.

A new tax on pharmaceutical companies.

A new tax on the purchase of medical devices.

A new tax on insurance companies based on their market share. Basically, the more of the market they control, the more they'll get taxed.

The amount you can deduct from your taxes for medical expenses increases.

1/1/2015

Doctors' pay will be determined by the quality of their care, not how many people they treat. Edit: a_real_MD addresses questions regarding this one in far more detail and with far more expertise than I can offer in [9] this post. If you're looking for a more in-depth explanation of this one (as many of you are), I highly recommend you give his post a read.

1/1/2017

If any state can come up with their own plan, one which gives citizens the same level of care at the same price as the PPACA, they can ask the Secretary of Health and Human Resources for permission to do their plan instead of the PPACA. So if they can get the same results without, say, the mandate, they can be allowed to do so. Vermont, for example, has expressed a desire to just go straight to single-payer (in simple terms, everyone is covered, and medical expenses are paid by taxpayers).

2018

All health care plans must now cover preventative care (not just the new ones).

A new tax on "Cadillac" health care plans (more expensive plans for rich people who want fancier coverage).

2020

The elimination of the "Medicare gap"
.
Collin has been doing his homework. Wheres my invite?
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      06-28-2012, 03:38 PM   #30
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Wow, crazy. Seems like we all have to educate ourselves with this new mandate.

Hopefully, this will spur people to become more healthy as I think healthcare will be of less quality as per every individual.

If they really wanted to help us, maybe banning cigarettes, high fructose corn syrup, or MSG would do the trick.

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      06-28-2012, 03:39 PM   #31
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So can you get an independent health insurance on top of this? The reason I ask is because the Germans have health coverage also here but a lot have independent coverage because they treat them a lot better and I have seen this first hand.
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      06-28-2012, 03:40 PM   #32
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My question is if Romney is President, can he reverse this law?
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      06-28-2012, 03:41 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CamelBiscuit View Post
So can you get an independent health insurance on top of this? The reason I ask is because the Germans have health coverage also here but a lot have independent coverage because they treat them a lot better and I have seen this first hand.
People will be taxed if they decide they want better coverage, but nothing crazy.

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My question is if Romney is President, can he reverse this law?
Romney is for Universal Healthcare.
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      06-28-2012, 03:51 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by Bmoney2K4 View Post
My question is if Romney is President, can he reverse this law?
Romney is adamantly apposed to the new healthcare law, so it is a possibility that he will repeal if elected.

His actions as gov of Mass say otherwise though (He basically set the groundwork for the healthcare "tax" that was just upheld).
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      06-28-2012, 03:54 PM   #35
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How come there's such thing as "waiver to PPACA/Obamacare"? Isn't the whole point of the law that it's for everyone?
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      06-28-2012, 04:15 PM   #36
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So can you get an independent health insurance on top of this? The reason I ask is because the Germans have health coverage also here but a lot have independent coverage because they treat them a lot better and I have seen this first hand.
Haha that would be nice. Right now I'm in a similar situation to them; I get free VA healthcare for life but the system can be so bad sometimes that I just use my insurance from my current employer. I would be willing to pay a decent amount to keep the level of care I have now.
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      06-28-2012, 04:21 PM   #37
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Haha that would be nice. Right now I'm in a similar situation to them; I get free VA healthcare for life but the system can be so bad sometimes that I just use my insurance from my current employer. I would be willing to pay a decent amount to keep the level of care I have now.
You will be able to.
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      06-28-2012, 04:36 PM   #38
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You will be able to.
Shhhhhhh I told you I was going to read all the details when I get home! You're providing spoilers!
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      06-28-2012, 04:36 PM   #39
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The Obama Administration -- Taking money from people who have it & giving free shit to people who contribute NOTHING back to society.

When you contribute (pay taxes), you have a right to be upset how money is being spent. When you see it's being spent on bullshit (free cell phones, free internet) that you should be working for, then there is a problem. You would think that the government would encourage people to do something with their lives & become contributing members of society (and pay taxes instead of developing a financial dependency on Govt. money), but the current Adminstration is creating a country where more & more people take, and we expect the middle class (much larger than the 1% every bitches about) to foot the bill. If we continue in the direction we're going, the "class division" that all these Occupy Wall St protestors bitch about is going to become a reality: a lot of poor people & a very small population of wealthy rich.

Uh, a homeless person can't buy a soda without paying taxes. I don't think anyone wakes up in the morning looking for ways to make their lives worse. People are in circumstances and it is up to us all to insure we don't simply ignore these people. No one is getting a free check. Lol. I love that misconception. If any of you think depending on our beloved gov't is a desirable experience, remind yourself of how well your local DMV operates. You judge a nation by how well it treats it's children and animals. If a parent has no insurance , common sense says neither does their child. Moreover, there are plenty of people who contribute to society but need assistance. How many veterans are currently on welfare???? Get off your high horse, you're circumstances can change in an instant. Everything in life is temporary.

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      06-28-2012, 04:37 PM   #40
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My question is if Romney is President, can he reverse this law?
To answer your question... No. Romney will never be president.
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      06-28-2012, 04:38 PM   #41
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Shhhhhhh I told you I was going to read all the details when I get home! You're providing spoilers!
Doh!
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      06-28-2012, 04:40 PM   #42
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It makes a "high-risk pool" for people with pre-existing conditions. Basically, this is a way to slowly ease into getting rid of "pre-existing conditions" altogether. For now, people who already have health issues that would be considered "pre-existing conditions" can still get insurance, but at different rates than people without them.

It says that health insurance companies can no longer tell customers that they won't get any more coverage because they have hit a "lifetime limit". Basically, if someone has paid for health insurance, that company can't tell that person that he's used that insurance too much throughout his life so they won't cover him any more. They can't do this for lifetime spending, and they're limited in how much they can do this for yearly spending. ( [5] Citation: Page 14, sec. 2711 )
This is why Obamacare is a win for me. I have been denied insurance/continuing coverage due to both issues. I can remember my dad working three jobs and my mom two just to pay my medical expenses as a child. As an adult, the trend continued.

If you have ever had this happen to you personally or as a result of a sick child, you would be quite happy it was upheld.
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      06-28-2012, 04:44 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by 48Laws View Post
Uh, a homeless person can't buy a soda without paying taxes. I don't think anyone wakes up in the morning looking for ways to make their lives worse. People are in circumstances and it is up to us all to insure we don't simply ignore these people. No one is getting a free check. Lol. I love that misconception. If any of you think depending on our beloved gov't is a desirable experience, remind yourself of how well your local DMV operates. You judge a nation by how well it treats it's children and animals. If a parent has no insures, common sense says neither does their child. Moreover, there are plenty of people who contribute to society but need assistance. How many veterans are currently on welfare???? Get off your high horse, you're circumstances can change in an instant. Everything in life is temporary.
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      06-28-2012, 05:29 PM   #44
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2-3 years from now every wing nut profusely opposing "Obamacare" will forget all the talking points. Or better yet, gladly use the advantages it provides.

In a civilized country, healthcare is a basic human right and taxes are the price we pay to live in a said civilized country. Yes, some taxes are absolutely ridiculous, but nothing is stopping you from moving to another country.


Funny thing. Had an acquaintance visit from Arizona last week. She hasn't had a job in 3 years, her and both of her kids live with her parents (she is 39!), she gets food stamps, medicare, welfare and all kinds of social benefits... yet she is a die hard Republican. And I do mean DIE HARD - Obama is a socialist muslim, fuck Obamacare, fuck welfare, fiscal conservative and does not want her taxes to go to people who mooch off the Government. And no amount of convincing her that she is one of those people she hates, was enough. And apparently her version of paying taxes is filing paperwork every April... and then getting a check 2 weeks later.

It was fucking epic.
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