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      11-13-2012, 12:08 AM   #67
kaigoss69
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Every sub is different! Give it time. However, I recommend that when you do the calibration, that the sub not be present. So let the underseats play all the way down. Then after the calibration, hook-up the sub. I recommend you set the amp HP/LP at 80Hz, 24dB/oct. Also, you may want to switch the polarity of the sub!
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      11-13-2012, 12:17 AM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kaigoss69 View Post
Every sub is different! Give it time. However, I recommend that when you do the calibration, that the sub not be present. So let the underseats play all the way down. Then after the calibration, hook-up the sub. I recommend you set the amp HP/LP at 80Hz, 24dB/oct. Also, you may want to switch the polarity of the sub!
Kaigoss, Thanks I appreciate it you guys have been a great help.

I will leave everything in the MS8 where its at and just re-calibrate with no sub present.
Once thats done ill re-connect the sub and enjoy it at lower volumes for a little.

Ill also try swapping the +/- ( polarity ) at the amp to see what gives better results.

I was under the impression calibrating with it missing the sub-frequencies it would affect the tune w/your method.

Will try and update thread asap.
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      11-13-2012, 12:35 AM   #69
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You're welcome. Also, I might have mentioned this before, but your calibration volume is VERY high. I never went above -25dB and right now I'm using about -43dB.
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      11-13-2012, 12:41 AM   #70
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Oh and 1 more thing, during calibration, switch the filter on the JL amp for the underseat channels to LP, and set the frequency at about 220 - 240Hz. That will cut off any higher frequencies from the sweep and help you get better midbass.
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      11-13-2012, 12:47 AM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kaigoss69 View Post
You're welcome. Also, I might have mentioned this before, but your calibration volume is VERY high. I never went above -25dB and right now I'm using about -43dB.
Really? Ive worked with Taibanl on this config and its netted the best sound so far. I think maybe because my speakers are all powered from the MS8's internal amp (except underseats).

Quote:
Originally Posted by kaigoss69 View Post
Oh and 1 more thing, during calibration, switch the filter on the JL amp for the underseat channels to LP, and set the frequency at about 220 - 240Hz. That will cut off any higher frequencies from the sweep and help you get better midbass.
The under-seats are on CH1 & 2 of the JL with the only X-Over settings for those channels listed as OFF/HP So ill leave on HP and change the freq for calibration?



So let me make sure I got this right?

LEAVE All MS8 settings the way they are & make adjustments only on amp at this point.
  • Set CH1/2 to 220/240hz
  • Run calibration with the sub disconnected
  • Hook sub back up
  • Move X-over back to 80hz and enjoy DONE?
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      11-13-2012, 06:54 AM   #72
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OK, if your amp doesn't have a LP setting then you can't do it. The XD amps are not as flexible as I thought. Then your calibration procedure would be:
  • Set Ch1&2 filter to "off" (so the underseats get all frequencies between 20 and 200Hz)
  • Disconnect sub (so it doesn't interfere with calibration)
  • Correctly set the volume
  • Run sweeps
  • After calibration, make sure you have good tonality, stage width and midbass
  • If not, change amp gain and recalibrate
  • Set Ch1&2 filter to "HP" (keep at 80Hz)
  • Reconnect sub (set Ch3 filter to "24dB" at 80Hz and adjust gain to your liking)

Make sure your sweep volumes are all roughly the same level. Best to do this through the "secret menu", playing pink noise through each channel, and measuring with an iPhone app. Since you cannot use the LP trick to chop off frequencies above 200Hz from the underseats (MS-8 "design" flaw), you have to artificially lower the output of the underseats by around 4-6dB compared to the other channels. The reason for this is a bit complicated to explain but if you want to know, read this thread: http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=724447
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      11-13-2012, 10:41 AM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kaigoss69 View Post
OK, if your amp doesn't have a LP setting then you can't do it. The XD amps are not as flexible as I thought. Then your calibration procedure would be:
  • Set Ch1&2 filter to "off" (so the underseats get all frequencies between 20 and 200Hz)
    OK

  • Disconnect sub (so it doesn't interfere with calibration)
    OK

  • Correctly set the volume ( underseats are already level matched to fronts using MS8 test tones + JL App ) Do I have to re-do this since were changing amp settings?

  • Run sweeps
    OK

  • After calibration, make sure you have good tonality, stage width and midbass
  • If not, change amp gain and recalibrate
  • Set Ch1&2 filter to "HP" (keep at 80Hz)
  • Reconnect sub (set Ch3 filter to "24dB" at 80Hz and adjust gain to your liking)

Make sure your sweep volumes are all roughly the same level. Best to do this through the "secret menu", playing pink noise through each channel, and measuring with an iPhone app. Since you cannot use the LP trick to chop off frequencies above 200Hz from the underseats (MS-8 "design" flaw), you have to artificially lower the output of the underseats by around 4-6dB compared to the other channels. The reason for this is a bit complicated to explain but if you want to know, read this thread: http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=724447

I take your word for it, I have read most of that thread but thanks I always love knowing exactly whats happening to learn.
I think I got this :
  • I put MS8 volume at -21 play test tones with the meter ear level and the front / centers ( app reads 68db )
  • Raise the volume of the underseats to match the 68db
  • Run sweeps in MS8
  • Lower amp gain 4-6db on midbass channel ( verified through jl app )
  • Turn X-over back on HP set at 80hz for mid bass and connect sub
  • Set sub gain to my liking
( ENJOY? )

Cant wait to do at lunch ( expecting better results ).
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      11-13-2012, 12:08 PM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by QUiKSR20 View Post
I think I got this :
  • I put MS8 volume at -21 play test tones with the meter ear level and the front / centers ( app reads 68db )
  • Lower the volume of the underseats to 68db minus 5db = 63db
  • Run sweeps in MS8
  • Turn X-over back on HP set at 80hz for mid bass and connect sub
  • Set sub gain to my liking
Fixed!
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      11-13-2012, 12:17 PM   #75
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Originally Posted by kaigoss69 View Post
Fixed!
Awesome thanks, I wasnt sure it I lowered it before or after the sweeps.
( didnt know if we were tricking the MS8 ).

Ill update after my lunch break when I make changes Sweet.
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      11-13-2012, 01:18 PM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kaigoss69 View Post
You're welcome. Also, I might have mentioned this before, but your calibration volume is VERY high. I never went above -25dB and right now I'm using about -43dB.
+1

I think you have too high of a calibration volume. When I had my stock speakers I ran a volume of -20dB to -23dB. You have a lot more efficient speakers, which shows in the 68dB reading you have during the sweeps. I think you should try lowering your calibration volume to -34dB to -39dB. This should give you sweep volumes of 50dB to 55dB, which i found worked well.
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      11-13-2012, 02:36 PM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mob17 View Post
+1

I think you have too high of a calibration volume. When I had my stock speakers I ran a volume of -20dB to -23dB. You have a lot more efficient speakers, which shows in the 68dB reading you have during the sweeps. I think you should try lowering your calibration volume to -34dB to -39dB. This should give you sweep volumes of 50dB to 55dB, which i found worked well.
I am on all stock speakers up front ( DLS R4 are not installed yet ) I only have one aftermarket speaker
currently installed and its the DLS424 center.

I could of swore reading multiple threads and speaking with Taibainl & Technic when using stock MS8 internal amp
(only my underseats/sub are amped). you want to do 21-23db for the calibration and this made the biggest improvement earlier on.

Any lower and volume was sounding like crap if you followed earlier in the thread we have tried multiple calibration
volumes and nothing began to sound remotely good until I got to 21db or so.
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      11-13-2012, 04:40 PM   #78
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Oops i assumed you had installed the DLS speakers

But 68db is quite high. I haven't read if you have already tried this, but reduce the calib volume until you have a sweep vol of 55dB. If you've already tried then just ignore.

Well keep trying you'll get there hopefully. And yes i got best results with -21 to -23 on stock speakers.
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      11-13-2012, 05:05 PM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mob17 View Post
Oops i assumed you had installed the DLS speakers

But 68db is quite high. I haven't read if you have already tried this, but reduce the calib volume until you have a sweep vol of 55dB. If you've already tried then just ignore.

Well keep trying you'll get there hopefully. And yes i got best results with -21 to -23 on stock speakers.
No prob MOB - Im kinda in "Work Around Mode" Since I didn't install the R4's yet (my 8 month old is keeping me busy)
I level matched to the DLS center which in theory should make it perfect for when I add my R4's.

So thats what hits 68dbs and what I matched the underseats too.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
EDITED in new post ( THIS WAS WRONG )

Stock doors register like 58dbs or so when using the -21db.

Its a hodge podge until I get the R4s installed.
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      11-13-2012, 06:23 PM   #80
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Yeah 10db difference is not going to give you good results at all. You're stuck until you install the DLS.
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      11-13-2012, 06:38 PM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kaigoss69 View Post
Yeah 10db difference is not going to give you good results at all. You're stuck until you install the DLS.
Hopefully this weekend the R4's will go in, For now ill just try and get this subwoofer improved with what we have discussed above it
maybe less than 10db im going off the top of my head. I appreciate all the advice, I had it sounding pretty damn good prior to adding the sub.
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      11-13-2012, 08:39 PM   #82
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UPDATE -

So my -db's I reported earlier were a little off not in the car just what I was telling you guys.
In the car I just needed to re-level match @ -21db to get underseats correct, heres what it reads :
[ all readings from driver seat ear level above center console ]



Fronts = Stock ( replacing with DLS R4's asap ) Center = DLS 424
I will try a new calibration at lesser -dbs when the front speakers are replaced.

Currently underseats are level matched to the DLS Center.

I performed the calibration / sweeps in the method above with sub disconnected and x-over to OFF
and it appears to have made a big difference, I still havent pushed the sub as its new still.

I may still try changing the +/- polarity on the sub as well to see if theres anymore improvments.
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      11-14-2012, 01:52 PM   #83
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Why does the center appear to be softer than the front l/r? That doesnt check.
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      11-14-2012, 02:12 PM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by taibanl View Post
Why does the center appear to be softer than the front l/r? That doesnt check.
Is it because its 4ohms DLS vs 2ohms stocks ?? No clue all ive done is :
  • Set volume in MS8 to -21db
  • Goto Test Menu > Channel Identification
  • Hold iPhone ear level in center of car and jot down readings.

When I play the test tones the left and right come off much louder than
the center does not only on the meter but even my ears can hear the diff.

Also the rears are loud like the Fronts I really just need to get the door speakers done already.

All the speakers sound louder than the center channel besides underseats ( when using test tones only )

When musics playing after the tune the Center is louder than the L and R and I usually lower the center in the MS8 menu 1-2 clicks from center.
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      11-14-2012, 02:15 PM   #85
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Thats a bit alarming and certainly unexpected. It should be exactly 4dB louder.

Ill wait to see what the r4s do.
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      11-14-2012, 02:18 PM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by taibanl View Post
Thats a bit alarming and certainly unexpected. It should be exactly 4dB louder.

Ill wait to see what the r4s do.
Hope I didnt toast the tweeter along the way in the 424, it doesn't seem bright like the rest at all with the test tones.

I was just chalking it up as the ohm diff + being the only diff speaker thats not OEM

Yeah I really gotta get the doors done ASAP
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      11-14-2012, 02:21 PM   #87
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Hmm. If you use the JL RTA. You should be able to see the FR at 1khz to compare mids to mids.

Shouldnt be those things. Ms8 outputs so many volts and the DLS should be louder than oem at a given voltage.
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      11-14-2012, 02:24 PM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by taibanl View Post
Hmm. If you use the JL RTA. You should be able to see the FR at 1khz to compare mids to mids.

Shouldnt be those things. Ms8 outputs so many volts and the DLS should be louder than oem at a given voltage.
Ill run the test tones at lunch on the JL RTA and take screen shots from center channel test tone and one of the door speakers and post the results.

I know once way earlier in the thread I hit the test tone by accident at -6db in the MS8 hope that didnt toast the center channel. Worse case scenario
if thats what happened ill chalk it up as a MS8 newbie move and replace..
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