E90Post
 


TNT Racewerks
 
BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > BIMMERPOST Universal Forums > Off-Topic Discussions Board > Politics/Religion > Obamacare practical implications



Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      07-01-2012, 05:31 PM   #1
txz4
Major
 
txz4's Avatar
 
Drives: 2006 M coupe
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: san antonio, texas

Posts: 1,098
iTrader: (3)

Obamacare practical implications

There are many threads that have just devolved into some ideology argument or another. This thread will be specifically for practical implications. If this is going to help you directly and you can specifically site what it is that will be changed and why, feel free to post it up. Conversely, if this is going to hurt you directly and you specifically can site why, again, post up.if you feel that its a matter of right and wrong, DONT POST UP! there are several threads on specifically that already, they would love to hear all about it there.


Here is my take (from an earlier thread):

So anyone here know how this will work? let me spell it out:

If you are an employer with 50 or more employees, you will either have to provide health care OR pay a tax of $2000 for every (full time equivalent) employee you have in excess of 30.

It gets better. A full time employee under this law is an employee that works 29 or more hours a week. No problem, just hire part timers below 29. NOPE. You take all of your part time employees, add the hours, and divide by 30. If this works out to 29 or more, then you have to pay healthcare cost or penalty.

IF you DONT have insurance, you must pay either 1% of your yearly income or $95 whichever is more.


I was reading an article on HuffPo about small business and Obamacare, they interviewed this one business owner who said it best, something along the lines of: "If you have 60 employees, you have to downsize to 49. If you have 49 you dont hire...." Needless to say, my company will be doing something very similar out of necessity... This recession has hurt many businesses and pushed us to work harder and harder for less then we used to make, this is going to push us over the edge unless we prepare accordingly.
txz4 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      07-01-2012, 07:02 PM   #2
128vertinnoho
Private First Class
 
Drives: 2012 128iC
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: North Hollywood, CA

Posts: 141
iTrader: (0)

Since the entire law is not fully implemented until 2014, how can ANYONE say that the law will specifically benefit or harm them now?
128vertinnoho is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      07-01-2012, 07:15 PM   #3
Mr Tonka
Tonka.... Mr. Tonka
 
Drives: Exceptionally well :)
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Tampa, FL

Posts: 1,160
iTrader: (0)

Yes. that is the hope. That some how between now and the implementation of the law that it will be scrapped for something that makes more sense.

I know that we won't be hiring anyone new.
__________________
-Joe


"Government is the great fiction, through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else." — Frédéric Bastiat
Mr Tonka is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      07-01-2012, 08:32 PM   #4
txz4
Major
 
txz4's Avatar
 
Drives: 2006 M coupe
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: san antonio, texas

Posts: 1,098
iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 128vertinnoho View Post
Since the entire law is not fully implemented until 2014, how can ANYONE say that the law will specifically benefit or harm them now?
... i just did. There is enough of the bill out there (for us to read) amongst the public for us to see and say how what we have seen will effect us.
txz4 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      07-01-2012, 08:50 PM   #5
MisterSkiMask
Lieutenant Colonel
 
Drives: I Can not say
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: you must not know

Posts: 1,939
iTrader: (0)

I do not pretend to fully understand obamacare, and my company is small enough to comfortably fall below the 50 employee threshold. My questions are (as far as the tax goes): Is this 1% in addition to what we already pay or is this amount redirected (for lack of a better term) from taxes we already pay? What about using a temp agency? I would assume, since the agency is the employer, that if you had 49 vital employees you could have temps filling non-crucial roles...sadly those people would probably never advance in the company, but when hiring one more person is going to cost you an additional $100,000 in taxes, what would you do?
MisterSkiMask is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      07-01-2012, 08:55 PM   #6
txz4
Major
 
txz4's Avatar
 
Drives: 2006 M coupe
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: san antonio, texas

Posts: 1,098
iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterSkiMask View Post
I do not pretend to fully understand obamacare, and my company is small enough to comfortably fall below the 50 employee threshold. My questions are (as far as the tax goes): Is this 1% in addition to what we already pay or is this amount redirected (for lack of a better term) from taxes we already pay? What about using a temp agency? I would assume, since the agency is the employer, that if you had 49 vital employees you could have temps filling non-crucial roles...sadly those people would probably never advance in the company, but when hiring one more person is going to cost you an additional $100,000 in taxes, what would you do?
the 1% or $95 whichever is more, is for the individual, that would be in addition to what you already pay (of course only if you arent insured). Im not sure about the temp thing, not really practical but practical will surely be redefined when this goes into effect (the mandate).
txz4 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      07-01-2012, 09:37 PM   #7
MisterSkiMask
Lieutenant Colonel
 
Drives: I Can not say
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: you must not know

Posts: 1,939
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by txz4 View Post
the 1% or $95 whichever is more, is for the individual, that would be in addition to what you already pay (of course only if you arent insured). Im not sure about the temp thing, not really practical but practical will surely be redefined when this goes into effect (the mandate).
I assumed it would be in addition, I was thinking perhaps a tax deductible tax.

Many tasks can be handled by temps (maybe not as efficiently), and subs. From data entry to facility maintenance, etc.

I would also expect to see subsidiaries popping up.
MisterSkiMask is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      07-02-2012, 09:02 AM   #8
xbook
Lieutenant Colonel
 
xbook's Avatar
 
Drives: '14 EBII M235i & '06 R53 GP
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Northridge, CA

Posts: 1,536
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2008 E82  [0.00]
Here's Romney explaining the individual mandate in Massachusetts:

__________________
xbook is offline   Zimbabwe
0
Reply With Quote
      07-02-2012, 11:46 AM   #9
txz4
Major
 
txz4's Avatar
 
Drives: 2006 M coupe
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: san antonio, texas

Posts: 1,098
iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by xbook View Post
Here's Romney explaining the individual mandate in Massachusetts:

though i appreciate the enthusiasm in comparing Romneycare to Obamacare, they arent the same thing. I dislike both of them and both are not a solution, but at the end of the day its just divisive politicization to even bring it up. Most all Republicans know full well about Romneycare. There are similarities etc, but you dont plan for a hurricane and a storm the same way, and it would be silly if you did here.

Edit: Seems far more comparable to Hilary's plan
txz4 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      07-02-2012, 12:27 PM   #10
ScotchAndCigar
Banned
 
ScotchAndCigar's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011 128i space gray vert
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: New England

Posts: 817
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by txz4 View Post
but at the end of the day its just divisive politicization to even bring it up. Most all Republicans know full well about Romneycare. There are similarities etc
At the end of the day it's only a propaganda-driven partisan fool who would NOT point-out that RomneyCare has the same individual mandate, and no, most republicans have absolutely NO IDEA that the same mandate was made law by Romney several years ago.
ScotchAndCigar is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      07-02-2012, 12:56 PM   #11
Templar
Lieutenant Colonel
 
Templar's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011 E92 M3
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: One of the coasts...

Posts: 1,816
iTrader: (1)

Garage List
2011 BMW M3  [5.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScotchAndCigar View Post
At the end of the day it's only a propaganda-driven partisan fool who would NOT point-out that RomneyCare has the same individual mandate, and no, most republicans have absolutely NO IDEA that the same mandate was made law by Romney several years ago.
False.

Most republicans certainly know about Romneycare. They just choose to ignore it and pretend it never happened
__________________
'11 BMW E92 ///M3 - ZCP and DCT
'13 Toyota Tundra - 4x4 Platinum CrewMax, 5.7l iForce V8
Templar is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      07-02-2012, 02:05 PM   #12
txz4
Major
 
txz4's Avatar
 
Drives: 2006 M coupe
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: san antonio, texas

Posts: 1,098
iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ScotchAndCigar View Post
At the end of the day it's only a propaganda-driven partisan fool who would NOT point-out that RomneyCare has the same individual mandate, and no, most republicans have absolutely NO IDEA that the same mandate was made law by Romney several years ago.
The is a HUGE distinction. The individual mandate is the same as Hilarycare. Obamacare requires business to foot the bill, and when they dont THEN the individual.

So again scotch you're wrong because you dont understand simple distinctions. Furthermore, again to point out a wrong, most republicans know damn well about Romneycare, we choose not to care because from a PRACTICAL standpoint, Romney will be better for this economy. Please stay out of this thread unless you can point out practical implications either good or bad. This isnt a politics thread. This is an implication. If something is good or bad it is on its merit, nothing more or less.
txz4 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      07-02-2012, 06:58 PM   #13
OldArmy
Lieutenant
 
Drives: 2007 Z4 3.0si
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Central Virginia

Posts: 523
iTrader: (0)

Republicans who respond to the fatuous "Romneycare" argument are just playing into the hands of nobama's legions of the lame. It's just another weak attempt to divert from the record (or lack thereof) of the grand amateur when it comes to jobs and the economy. So far they've tried Bain, dogs on cars, flipping or flopping, gay marriage, high school hijinks, war on women and any other number of diversionary ploys. Anything to protect the prince, it's weak as can be.
OldArmy is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      07-02-2012, 07:00 PM   #14
xbook
Lieutenant Colonel
 
xbook's Avatar
 
Drives: '14 EBII M235i & '06 R53 GP
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Northridge, CA

Posts: 1,536
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2008 E82  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by OldArmy View Post
Republicans who respond to the fatuous "Romneycare" argument are just playing into the hands of nobama's legions of the lame. It's just another weak attempt to divert from the record (or lack thereof) of the grand amateur when it comes to jobs and the economy. So far they've tried Bain, dogs on cars, flipping or flopping, gay marriage, high school hijinks, war on women and any other number of diversionary ploys. Anything to protect the prince, it's weak as can be.
Huh?

__________________
xbook is offline   Zimbabwe
0
Reply With Quote
      07-03-2012, 07:56 AM   #15
Templar
Lieutenant Colonel
 
Templar's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011 E92 M3
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: One of the coasts...

Posts: 1,816
iTrader: (1)

Garage List
2011 BMW M3  [5.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by OldArmy View Post
Republicans who respond to the fatuous "Romneycare" argument are just playing into the hands of nobama's legions of the lame. It's just another weak attempt to divert from the record (or lack thereof) of the grand amateur when it comes to jobs and the economy. So far they've tried Bain, dogs on cars, flipping or flopping, gay marriage, high school hijinks, war on women and any other number of diversionary ploys. Anything to protect the prince, it's weak as can be.
Sorry, but this statement literally makes no sense at all.
__________________
'11 BMW E92 ///M3 - ZCP and DCT
'13 Toyota Tundra - 4x4 Platinum CrewMax, 5.7l iForce V8
Templar is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      07-03-2012, 09:17 AM   #16
RambleJ
Colonel
 
RambleJ's Avatar
 
Drives: F10 535i M-sport
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Back in teh so cal

Posts: 2,013
iTrader: (2)

This Obamacare hurts what I do for a living and millions of seniors. I work in the Medicare space and Obamacare has been targeting Medicare advantage plans since day 1. He plans to cut to cut 145 billion over the next 10 years, these cuts had already started but with the election coming up there is some shady stuff going on to mask these cuts. -

"Obama may not care that this violates his endlessly repeated promise that "if you like your health plan you can keep it."

But somewhere along the way, someone in his administration realized that millions of seniors would soon catch on that he was lying — and that this would happen just before the November election, when seniors make their annual Medicare Advantage selections.

Not wanting to confront angry voters who've seen their health care choice eliminated by ObamaCare, the administration apparently decided instead to paper over these spending cuts, pumping $8.3 billion back into the program through "bonuses" to Medicare Advantage plans."
RambleJ is offline   No_Country
0
Reply With Quote
      07-03-2012, 11:40 AM   #17
JesterEXW
Private First Class
 
Drives: 2009 335i, Space Gray / Black
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Reston, VA

Posts: 146
iTrader: (0)

I posted this a couple days ago on another thread but figured I could throw it up here as well. This is a hugely summarized version of a more in depth writeup I have available simply highlighting two possible pros and cons that COULD come from all this depending on the implementation strategy. The "Good" and "Bad" fields are obviously from my personal perspective and this is an opinion piece since outcomes cannot yet be proven.

Good:

Due to a government provided option, private insurance now no longer monopolizes this sector. Insurance had long ago spun out of control and costs became far too high, this may drive the market down.

Mandates that those who have taken advantage of the current system now pay into it, at least a bit. Right now if an uninsured man is wheeled into an hospital after being hit by a bus, he will still be treated. Your tax dollars would still have paid for him to recover one way or another. Under the new system he will have had to at least pay into it in some form. Unless he is here illegally which is a new topic altogether.

Bad:

America has historically thrived via cost competition and individual ingenuity, this system undermines those ideals to an extent. Many of the great innovations and discoveries throughout our history were due to these and we are moving farther from them as a whole. There is a reason America has flourished while many socialist based countries have crumbled, like it or not capitalism gets shit done.

The new system may curb the desire for those in the medical field to open private practices. This is a huge draw for Doctors, profit wise, that may soon be an extinct option. With that option gone and the price of education only rising and malpractice lawsuits spiraling out of control it may become a MUCH less desirable field to work in. Between college costs, time in college, mandatory unpaid residencies and the rising price of malpractice insurance....where is the initiative for people to enter this field? In my opinion you want to attract the best and brightest to a field like medicine, this is less likely to happen now. Many other countries have seen a decrease in the quality of care provided once initiating a system like this, the richest often look outside their borders to places like the US where world renowned Doctors choose to reside for profit.

There are many more practical pros and cons I could point out but these are near the forefront of my list. I also believe there have been plans out there better suited to tackling the issue, I do not however feel this is the worst option, the implementation will show us quite a bit in the end.

I did not want to get into the issue of taxation because that opens an entirely new debate, I have posted my opinions/ideas on tax code revision in other places here in the past.
JesterEXW is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      07-03-2012, 01:55 PM   #18
RambleJ
Colonel
 
RambleJ's Avatar
 
Drives: F10 535i M-sport
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Back in teh so cal

Posts: 2,013
iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by JesterEXW View Post

Good:

Due to a government provided option, private insurance now no longer monopolizes this sector. Insurance had long ago spun out of control and costs became far too high, this may drive the market down.
I didn't want to quote your whole post. But this stood out to me and is completely misleading. The main reason why insurance companies need to keep raising cost is due to the inflation in healthcare cost. When the hospitals/docs/facilities raise their prices for services the insurance companies need to do so to be able to keep up. Its not the evil greedy private insurance companies that do this cause they can.
RambleJ is offline   No_Country
0
Reply With Quote
      07-03-2012, 03:34 PM   #19
Fox128i
First Lieutenant
 
Fox128i's Avatar
 
Drives: 2012 E82
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Dromund Kaas

Posts: 317
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2012 128i  [4.75]
I must admit, there is a lot that I still do not understand. The one thing about the whole law that was a win for me was me not being denied due to my pre-existing condition and no more limits.

I am not asking for a hand-out mind you. I'm willing to pay for my share, I'm just asking not to be denied coverage because of a medical condition I was born with and still deal with 40 years later.

Glad I am not an employer though, looks like you would need a constitutional attorney to sift through the fine print.
__________________
Deutsche Bahn, DB | Österreichische Bundesbahnen, ÖBB | Schweizerische Bundesbahnen, SBB
Fox128i is offline   Germany
0
Reply With Quote
      07-03-2012, 03:48 PM   #20
JesterEXW
Private First Class
 
Drives: 2009 335i, Space Gray / Black
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Reston, VA

Posts: 146
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by RambleJ
Quote:
Originally Posted by JesterEXW View Post

Good:

Due to a government provided option, private insurance now no longer monopolizes this sector. Insurance had long ago spun out of control and costs became far too high, this may drive the market down.
I didn't want to quote your whole post. But this stood out to me and is completely misleading. The main reason why insurance companies need to keep raising cost is due to the inflation in healthcare cost. When the hospitals/docs/facilities raise their prices for services the insurance companies need to do so to be able to keep up. Its not the evil greedy private insurance companies that do this cause they can.
No, of course the insurance companies are not entirely to blame but the fact is that they have had a lot of unchecked power in this market for some time which has not allowed the market to highlight true expenses. I agree that the larger problem is cost overall being driven up by numerous factors. Were it my decision I would first attack frivolous malpractice lawsuits to begin dropping that cost.

It is hard to deny that with a cheap government option on the table it is possible that some private insurance companies will drive costs down to attract a customer base. As I stated before, only time will tell but these are thoughts that have arisen within myself and have been shared by numerous political and economic strategists.

This is not to say that I am for this being passed, I simply wanted to post some possible pros and cons as my post stated. I do appreciate the sarcastic "sigh" sign thrown into the end of your post. Sorry if my attempting to post some logical and legitimate possible outcomes is that frustrating to you.
JesterEXW is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      07-03-2012, 04:00 PM   #21
mspeasl
Sixties Drag Racer
 
mspeasl's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011 Cashmere Silver 528i
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Decatur, IL - USA

Posts: 410
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by RambleJ View Post
I didn't want to quote your whole post. But this stood out to me and is completely misleading. The main reason why insurance companies need to keep raising cost is due to the inflation in healthcare cost. When the hospitals/docs/facilities raise their prices for services the insurance companies need to do so to be able to keep up. Its not the evil greedy private insurance companies that do this cause they can.
This may not be completely true. My GP tells me that he is bound by what Medicare states he can charge for his services.
__________________
Mspeasl - Central Illinois - USA :
My Garage: 2011 - Cashmere Silver Metallic BMW, 528i (Delivered 17 January 2011)
2008 - Radiant Red Toyota, M6 'X-Runner' (Delivered 15 November 2007)
1957 - Chevrolet Bel Air 2dr Coupe' Drag Car (2nd Owner since 1964)
1947 - Chevrolet Sport Master Coupe' Street Rod (2nd Owner since 1974)
mspeasl is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      07-03-2012, 04:49 PM   #22
RambleJ
Colonel
 
RambleJ's Avatar
 
Drives: F10 535i M-sport
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Back in teh so cal

Posts: 2,013
iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by mspeasl View Post
This may not be completely true. My GP tells me that he is bound by what Medicare states he can charge for his services.
Here is the way it works in Medicare Advantage plans in the simplist form.....

*An insurance company Y wants to offer X medical group under it list of contracted providers.
*X medical group agrees to contract with Insurance Company Y for X amount of dollars per member per month.
*Elected Primary Care phys receive a monthly capitation per member per month whether the person is seen or not. When the person is seen the doc also collects co- payments as icing on the cake.
*Primary Care phys capitation is driven from the medical group, the insurance company has no influence on this.


FYI, if your doc would have been completely honest with you he would have told you that he is legally allowed to bill up 15% above the Medicare allowable.

So to be completely honest it is mostly the insurance companies trying to keep up with the cost of care and the cost of the medical group contracts which drives up overall cost. If Medical group X has top docs and top hospitals, and they know it, they ask for higher PMPM's and guess what... cost go up.
RambleJ is offline   No_Country
0
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:10 AM.




e90post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST