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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > How to lower engine oil temps



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      07-09-2012, 10:06 AM   #23
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I track with a bunch of guys who remove the engine cover for track events but put it back on for street use. My personal opinion (for whatever that's worth) is that it probably doesn't do much harm to remove the cowl and engine cover for specific use here and there, but long term you could expose your engine to things you don't want to.

I know a lot of people remove the cowl, I never do because I don't want to bypass the cabin filter. Just my personal opinion, not really based on anything.

As for reducing oil temps from using different types of brands, etc, I have no idea.
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      07-09-2012, 10:10 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesM3M5 View Post
Actually, the oil temp is hottest in the pan. ...

That's a good point about the cover. Water can get in, and the injectors are not supposed to get wet. Dirt builds up and is very hard to blow out of the valley in the middle of the head. I might run it off on track, but on the street, there's just too much dirt swirling around to leave it off.
This I agree with. That is why I plan to run with the cowl and engine cover off at Homestead in Miami next weekend. Should be pretty hot and weather calls for clear skys. If it rains I will likely leave it on. But for DD it is on all the time without a doubt.
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      07-09-2012, 10:44 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesM3M5 View Post
Stett cooler with lower temp thermostat is ideal for street driven / track cars. I'm going to make up my own this summer once I get a spare second when I'm not completely exhausted.
Perhaps a bit OT, but would a lower thermostat actually benefit a car subject to sustained heavy loads on the track?

By opening at a lower temperature the motor will, or course, run cooler in low load situations. But am I correct that the lower temp thermostat provides no benefit once it is fully open and the coolant temp rises above the thermostat setting as occurs when running on the track and/or in stop-and-go driving?

It strikes me that the primary benefit of the Stett (or Advan) oil coolers for the N54 is the larger heat exchanger and not the lower temp thermostat.

TIA.

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Last edited by MDORPHN; 07-09-2012 at 11:45 AM.
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      07-09-2012, 11:19 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by MDORPHN View Post
Perhaps a bit OT, but would a lower thermostat actually benefit a car subject to sustained heavy loads on the track?

By opening at a lower temperature that the motor will, or course, run cooler in low load situations. But am I correct that the lower temp thermostat provides no benefit once it is fully open and the coolant temp rises above the thermostat setting as occurs when running on the track and/or in stop-and-go driving?

It strikes me that the primary benefit of the Stett (or Advan) oil coolers for the N54 is the larger heat exchanger and not the lower temp thermostat.

TIA.

Neil
You are correct. The T-stat does nothing for controlling overall temp. It only controls the temp at which the cooler/radiator is starting to come into the cooling system to help alleviate heat. So it should reduce the time to build to equilibrium temp state but the equilibrium temp state would remain the same. The only ways to increase cooling efficiency is to either increase size of radiator/cooler (to a point), increase air flow across it, and increase flow of coolant/oil across the radiator/cooler core (also to a point).

The "theory" that removing the engine cover and cowl is only trying to assist with air flow by removing any build up of hot air behind the radiator. Too much hot air behind it COULD limit heat exchange in the radiator and subsequently the oil. This would limit radiator efficiency because of relative temp and air pressure differences across the radiator core.
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      07-09-2012, 11:56 AM   #27
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what's the difference between running 10w-40, 0w-40, 5w-30? I never understood what these numbers really meant as I've always just used the oem stuff, but after hearing alot of people say it's garbage for the price you pay, I'm looking into alternatives.

does the higher second number mean it's a thicker oil?
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      07-09-2012, 12:04 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by AU335i View Post
what's the difference between running 10w-40, 0w-40, 5w-30? I never understood what these numbers really meant as I've always just used the oem stuff, but after hearing alot of people say it's garbage for the price you pay, I'm looking into alternatives.

does the higher second number mean it's a thicker oil?
The "W" is how the oil reacts in colder (or winter) conditions, the second number is how it reacts in warmer conditions. I think the lower the number, the thinner the oil. This is a VERY simplistic overview.
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      07-09-2012, 12:10 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by BMWsky View Post
The "W" is how the oil reacts in colder (or winter) conditions, the second number is how it reacts in warmer conditions. I think the lower the number, the thinner the oil. This is a VERY simplistic overview.
I just googled it. and yeah that's basically much it... I've read that running thicker oil does help with oil temps but our motors were built for 5w-30... wonder what other side effects you get from running thicker oil?
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      07-09-2012, 12:12 PM   #30
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http://www.bobistheoilguy.com, etc. The first number is the Winter or very cold weather "pumpability" rating, not a viscosity. The second number is SAE viscosity rating taken at 100C/212F.
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      07-09-2012, 12:16 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesM3M5 View Post
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com, etc. The first number is the Winter or very cold weather "pumpability" rating, not a viscosity. The second number is SAE viscosity rating taken at 100C/212F.
thanks! I was actually just reading one of your posts from an old thread about people seeing hp gains from running Motul...


you were actually the one who said our motors are built for 5w-30 and we should stick to that for street use...

just wanted to ask with increased power levels we run on our engines after tuning/bolt-ons would running a thicker oil still be bad? you said we may lose a couple HP but that's not bad to me for lower oil temps.
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      07-09-2012, 12:23 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AU335i View Post
what's the difference between running 10w-40, 0w-40, 5w-30? I never understood what these numbers really meant as I've always just used the oem stuff, but after hearing alot of people say it's garbage for the price you pay, I'm looking into alternatives.

does the higher second number mean it's a thicker oil?
The first W number is the temp related to the cold start. The lower the number the better it will start/crank in cold temps. The second number is the viscosity and is usually specified by the maker of the car for a specific engine recommendation. It is the viscosity the engine sees when warm.
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      07-09-2012, 01:24 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AU335i View Post
thanks! I was actually just reading one of your posts from an old thread about people seeing hp gains from running Motul...


you were actually the one who said our motors are built for 5w-30 and we should stick to that for street use...

just wanted to ask with increased power levels we run on our engines after tuning/bolt-ons would running a thicker oil still be bad? you said we may lose a couple HP but that's not bad to me for lower oil temps.
I run 40-weight oils personally, especially for track use. For competitive race cars that have their oil temps in check (240F max) we run 5W30 Motul 300V, but for racecars without oil coolers, cars with lots of extra HP, built motors with looser clearances, etc, we run 10W40 300V.

For N54s that see track use, I recommend 10W40 300V to counteract the lower viscosity seen from the higher oil temps. That oil does a great job of shedding heat compared to some other brands. 300V is a full Group V synthetic - not made from any petroleum stock. It is ester-based from plant materials. Smells like a pina colada when you open a new can! All of the top end race engine builders and teams will use a Group V synthetic whenever they can simply because it is a much better lubricant than Group IV or III synthetics with fewer additives needed to "build up" the viscosity or reduce the low temp pour point.
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      07-09-2012, 01:55 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesM3M5 View Post
I run 40-weight oils personally, especially for track use. For competitive race cars that have their oil temps in check (240F max) we run 5W30 Motul 300V, but for racecars without oil coolers, cars with lots of extra HP, built motors with looser clearances, etc, we run 10W40 300V.

For N54s that see track use, I recommend 10W40 300V to counteract the lower viscosity seen from the higher oil temps. That oil does a great job of shedding heat compared to some other brands. 300V is a full Group V synthetic - not made from any petroleum stock. It is ester-based from plant materials. Smells like a pina colada when you open a new can! All of the top end race engine builders and teams will use a Group V synthetic whenever they can simply because it is a much better lubricant than Group IV or III synthetics with fewer additives needed to "build up" the viscosity or reduce the low temp pour point.
wow thats very interesting...wonder how much a bottle costs...probably too expensive for me but then again im using os giken diff fluid that costs $50 a liter.

anyway thats for the info helps a lot.
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      07-09-2012, 01:56 PM   #35
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I have some experience with hardware design in the automotive industry and yes, the engine cover is one of the contributing factors to increased oil temperatures. The general consumer wants silent, smooth operating vehicles. Look under any modern engine cover and find a ton of NVH material (usually a foam like material) which dampens the sounds coming from the engine. A common issue now is keeping the engine cool because the big covers basically insulate the engine and trap the heat. The other new contributor to cooling problems are under body panels for aerodynamic gains. Remove the under engine compartment panels and the engine compartment will breath better. Your highway fuel economy will suffer a little, but something tells me most of you don't care about that
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      07-09-2012, 02:10 PM   #36
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300V is about $36 per 2 liter can.
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      07-09-2012, 02:38 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkent View Post
I have some experience with hardware design in the automotive industry and yes, the engine cover is one of the contributing factors to increased oil temperatures. The general consumer wants silent, smooth operating vehicles. Look under any modern engine cover and find a ton of NVH material (usually a foam like material) which dampens the sounds coming from the engine. A common issue now is keeping the engine cool because the big covers basically insulate the engine and trap the heat. The other new contributor to cooling problems are under body panels for aerodynamic gains. Remove the under engine compartment panels and the engine compartment will breath better. Your highway fuel economy will suffer a little, but something tells me most of you don't care about that
thanks...and yeah thats what i thought but what about others who are saying that maybe you should have the cover on so debris doesnt get into the injectors or what not? i mean a lot of other companies like honda used to not put covers on and they still run til this day with over 300k miles so im assuming that really doesnt matter.

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300V is about $36 per 2 liter can.
wow that is really expensive lol
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      07-09-2012, 06:51 PM   #38
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Just FYI, Cleex - I change my oil every 7.5K. My comment was directed towards the poster that said their oil looked too dark and thought it needed changing. Your oil will turn black within 100 miles of changing it.

As far as taking off the cowl and engine cover (and any insulation underneath it), I'll stick with my ER Sport oil cooler that's 3x the size of the OE cooler. The cover's there for more than just good looks. Funny how some people think they're way smarter than those German engineers who design our cars...

Regarding different brands of oil supposedly transferring heat better than others - if they'd changed the oil to Motul on the car that kept getting into limp mode and it cured the problem - THEN I'd believe there was something to it. No two cars are completely identical (other than theoretically), and there had to be some other reason for the one car staying out of limp mode. If one brand of oil is more resistant to breaking down and losing its lubricity, that might explain why the difference - not some mysterious heat transfer capability.

50 years of driving and working on cars (including building racing engines) says I'm probably right, but to each their own.
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      07-09-2012, 08:51 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by roundel335 View Post
Just FYI, Cleex - I change my oil every 7.5K. My comment was directed towards the poster that said their oil looked too dark and thought it needed changing. Your oil will turn black within 100 miles of changing it.

As far as taking off the cowl and engine cover (and any insulation underneath it), I'll stick with my ER Sport oil cooler that's 3x the size of the OE cooler. The cover's there for more than just good looks. Funny how some people think they're way smarter than those German engineers who design our cars...

Regarding different brands of oil supposedly transferring heat better than others - if they'd changed the oil to Motul on the car that kept getting into limp mode and it cured the problem - THEN I'd believe there was something to it. No two cars are completely identical (other than theoretically), and there had to be some other reason for the one car staying out of limp mode. If one brand of oil is more resistant to breaking down and losing its lubricity, that might explain why the difference - not some mysterious heat transfer capability.

50 years of driving and working on cars (including building racing engines) says I'm probably right, but to each their own.
its actually more funny that you think you are smarter than all of us...putting in an engine cover is ONLY there for looks and no other reason. Now when it comes to the foam its to reduce the noise and vibrations as most owners of this vehicle would not want to hear the engine pings and knocks.

why would you think that the piece of foam and about 1.5 inches thick would not trap heat?

as for oil there are different additives and "secret" ingredients they put in the oil to make it perform a little better (supposedly)...im not saying that is always the case but some oils do perform better than others even if the viscosity is the same.

if you really dont think there are any differences in oil then go put in penzoil or maybe something cheaper than that and live with it...since there is no difference to you it shouldnt be a problem for you to switch to it.

again i dont know why you keep arguing with me about this when you havent even tried it...you dont even try to understand why they put engine covers on except that you think there is more behind it. remember older engines did not have it as they didnt care about how clean the engine compartment looked.
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      07-09-2012, 09:40 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by roundel335 View Post
Just FYI, Cleex - I change my oil every 7.5K. My comment was directed towards the poster that said their oil looked too dark and thought it needed changing. Your oil will turn black within 100 miles of changing it.

As far as taking off the cowl and engine cover (and any insulation underneath it), I'll stick with my ER Sport oil cooler that's 3x the size of the OE cooler. The cover's there for more than just good looks. Funny how some people think they're way smarter than those German engineers who design our cars...

Regarding different brands of oil supposedly transferring heat better than others - if they'd changed the oil to Motul on the car that kept getting into limp mode and it cured the problem - THEN I'd believe there was something to it. No two cars are completely identical (other than theoretically), and there had to be some other reason for the one car staying out of limp mode. If one brand of oil is more resistant to breaking down and losing its lubricity, that might explain why the difference - not some mysterious heat transfer capability.

50 years of driving and working on cars (including building racing engines) says I'm probably right, but to each their own.
I notice a HUGE amount of heat in the engine bay. So I plan to run at the track without the cover and cowl because it makes sense to me to do so under heavy track conditions. I also think your 2 bolded statement are COMPLETELY contradictory. How can you make an arrogant remark about someone "thinking they're way smarter than those German engineers who design our cars..." when YOU obviously think you are smarter than the German engineers or you would not have placed an after market Oil cooler that is "3x the size of the OE oil cooler." By the way some with the single oil cooler cars have still had high oil temps at the track. Thats why I went with the ER Dual Oil cooler.

But what do I know,... I have 0 years of experience building race cars and I am an arrogant American that thinks he is smarter than the German Engineer that designed the car.
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      07-09-2012, 10:02 PM   #41
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get ER comp dual oil coolers and remove the spring from the thermostat, i am also in miami and its a must. when are you running homestead?
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      07-09-2012, 10:38 PM   #42
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get ER comp dual oil coolers and remove the spring from the thermostat, i am also in miami and its a must. when are you running homestead?
Saturday.
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      07-09-2012, 10:46 PM   #43
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cool, i may come out just to hang out, but will run HOD in a few weeks.
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      07-09-2012, 10:50 PM   #44
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have been holding off on homestead in summer but will try to get meth installed before the 22nd to cool things off as well, but the dual oil coolers are great.
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