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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > Really!! Another E85 Thread...



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      07-10-2012, 10:15 PM   #1
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Question Really!! Another E85 Thread...

The objective: E85 how to use it correctly?

I have read various post that support and don't support E85 for the N54.

Some say yes, mix a little E85 (20%) and this will help with timing corrections.
Some say, no don't mix any E85 unless you have a proper tune



I have received feedback from others that say "are you worried about your fuel pump and injectors?"
And have read from the EVO Thread, "i have never seen such a clean fuel pump. E85 Rocks!..." (yeah i know, different car, but its relative to E85.)

Anyway, So what are the proper precautions to run E85 for miles to come??

Yes, I have a mix of 80/20. So far very nice results and it fixed all my timing corrections with my tune. I am not worried and I will continue to run this mix until convinced otherwise. Research? yes I have been doing a lot of research, but have not found anything really wrong with using it. besides the bad press about lower fuel economy. and that's the least of my worries.

Please, this thread is meant to be constructive, try not to troll. Please post your experience and if you are running E85, what is your mix, tune, and any specific mods to support E85....

thanks, Vince
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      07-10-2012, 10:35 PM   #2
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JB4 - MAP 5, 50/50 Mix E85/91, 3K Miles on E85

Runs great, no issues better then regular 91. But now that I'm back in cali and the closes E85 station is 25ish minutes away I am switching back to 91
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      07-10-2012, 10:53 PM   #3
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Jb4 map 5.

Car runs great anywhere from a 50% to 20% e85 mix.

Thousands of miles and couple of 1/4 mile passes.
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      07-10-2012, 11:24 PM   #4
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I run 50/50. I have about 3k miles no problems. I run the agressive e85 map for the procede. All logs look good.
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      07-10-2012, 11:35 PM   #5
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COBB -- Mixing 3 gallons (~20%) into one full tank of 93, especially when I flash for the Stg 2+FMIC Aggressive Map. Here's my Pros vs Cons Listing

Pros:
  • Significantly reduces timing corrections (better logs = happy car)
  • Inexpensive when compared to 100 octane Race Gas (mid $3 a gal vs mid/high $5s per gal)
  • Burns at a lower temp then 100 octane
  • Proven HP gains
Cons:
  • E85 isn't very common
  • E85 lowers your MPG
  • No one knows for sure how the BMW fueling system will hold up with extended use of ethanol based fuel
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      07-10-2012, 11:44 PM   #6
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I did a lot of testing with E85 last month. I use 20-35% of E85. Whenever I used from 35-50% my car threw codes at high loads.
My ECU doesn't like to much of it but it sure gives it much more power.
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      07-11-2012, 01:00 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AltecBX View Post
I did a lot of testing with E85 last month. I use 20-35% of E85. Whenever I used from 35-50% my car threw codes at high loads.
My ECU doesn't like to much of it but it sure gives it much more power.
yeah but do you have a tune?
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      07-11-2012, 01:46 AM   #8
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is it ok to run map 5 on jb4 with just dci intake?
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      07-11-2012, 07:01 AM   #9
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I would at least run enough to get near a 0 value in timing retard (JB4) or very little to no timing corrections (Procede and Cobb) for the map you plan to run; it will take some experimenting but rewarding because of the results. For me, that means mixing 5 gallons or E70 (31%) to a full tank of 93 octane on map 3 set at 17.5psi.

FWIW, our Brazil counterparts have the same fueling system as we do and they have mandatory E25 content.
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      07-11-2012, 07:35 AM   #10
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According to the owner's manual, E85 is specifically not recommended for the engines in current BMWs - the fuel systems are not equipped for it, and damage could occur with long-term use. If you run E85 and develop fuel system problems or other types of issues or damage to the engine, your warranty won't be honored. That said, almost all gasoline these days contains a certain percentage of ethanol, but not 85% like E85 - more like "may contain up to 10% ethanol", as it says on the pumps. So if you stick with no more than 10 to 15 percent, it will probably be diluted enough not to cause damage. The other factor is that ethanol is "hygroscopic" and will retain water/moisture unlike gasoline, so there is a possibility of injector damage. It's like it says on over-the-counter drugs - "please read the label carefully and use only as directed".
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      07-11-2012, 08:39 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave W. View Post
yeah but do you have a tune?
Been testing it on the JB4
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      07-11-2012, 09:14 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roundel335 View Post
According to the owner's manual, E85 is specifically not recommended for the engines in current BMWs - the fuel systems are not equipped for it, and damage could occur with long-term use. If you run E85 and develop fuel system problems or other types of issues or damage to the engine, your warranty won't be honored. That said, almost all gasoline these days contains a certain percentage of ethanol, but not 85% like E85 - more like "may contain up to 10% ethanol", as it says on the pumps. So if you stick with no more than 10 to 15 percent, it will probably be diluted enough not to cause damage. The other factor is that ethanol is "hygroscopic" and will retain water/moisture unlike gasoline, so there is a possibility of injector damage. It's like it says on over-the-counter drugs - "please read the label carefully and use only as directed".


I was talking with someone locally who was testing the ethanol content in various gas stations and he said some were testing as high as 17% even though they reported 10%. My point in bringing this up is that it's probably difficult to know exactly what we're getting.

With all that being said, I've been running a 50/50 mix with PROcede for about 2 weeks. I noticed that the car seems to be adapting to it rather nicely as the timing looks better than it did when I first ran it. (Probably took some time to get the mixture right in my tank and for the car to adapt.)
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      07-11-2012, 09:36 AM   #13
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Jb4 / e85

JB4 tuned FBO+meth
I went to the track on Friday night 50/50 e85/93
1st run 12.0@116
2nd run 12.3 codes 29e2/29f2
3rd run 12.5 same codes
Codes popped just before 100mph at WOT
Hooked up to laptop and fuel loop was @ 98 each time it coded
Terry advised me to me to turn off loop auto learn and set loop to 80 to stop codes
I was wondering if maybe codes were due to e85
Still running out the e85 tank
I'll fill up with93 tomorrow and do some logs to see if I get the same codes without e85 before turning off the fuel loop auto loop
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      07-11-2012, 09:54 AM   #14
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As alluded to earlier, almost all gasoline currently sold in the US is atleast 10%-15% ethanol(higher concentrations elsewhere in the world.) It has been this way for a while now and i'm sure BMW/Continental was aware of this when designing the fuel system.

IMO the thing that e85 is most useful for, when not autotooning, is to keep timing corrections at bay on aggressive maps. If making an e85 map in ATR then a set ratio has to be determined and strictly adhered to, which isn't a problem if e85 and 9x are sold together in the same station are conveniently located to you.
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      07-11-2012, 10:05 AM   #15
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Running E85 for about 4K miles now.
Throw 5 gallons of it to every tank which is around 30% mix.
Cleans up timing very nicely! Able to run more boost.
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      07-11-2012, 10:05 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by benzy89 View Post
COBB -- Mixing 3 gallons (~20%) into one full tank of 93, especially when I flash for the Stg 2+FMIC Aggressive Map. Here's my Pros vs Cons Listing

Pros:
  • Significantly reduces timing corrections (better logs = happy car)
  • Inexpensive when compared to 100 octane Race Gas (mid $3 a gal vs mid/high $5s per gal)
  • Burns at a lower temp then 100 octane
  • Proven HP gains
Cons:
  • E85 isn't very common
  • E85 lowers your MPG
  • No one knows for sure how the BMW fueling system will hold up with extended use of ethanol based fuel
Great feedback, I think you read between my lines. I was alluding to this...

Quote:
Originally Posted by roundel335 View Post
According to the owner's manual, E85 is specifically not recommended for the engines in current BMWs - the fuel systems are not equipped for it, and damage could occur with long-term use. If you run E85 and develop fuel system problems or other types of issues or damage to the engine, your warranty won't be honored. That said, almost all gasoline these days contains a certain percentage of ethanol, but not 85% like E85 - more like "may contain up to 10% ethanol", as it says on the pumps. So if you stick with no more than 10 to 15 percent, it will probably be diluted enough not to cause damage. The other factor is that ethanol is "hygroscopic" and will retain water/moisture unlike gasoline, so there is a possibility of injector damage. It's like it says on over-the-counter drugs - "please read the label carefully and use only as directed".
Yeah, i have heard about the ethanol is being "Hygroscopic". Is this really only an issue if you let your car sit for a while? Thus the fuel will begin to separate?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Randomaccess335 View Post
JB4 tuned FBO+meth
I went to the track on Friday night 50/50 e85/93
1st run 12.0@116
2nd run 12.3 codes 29e2/29f2
3rd run 12.5 same codes
Codes popped just before 100mph at WOT
Hooked up to laptop and fuel loop was @ 98 each time it coded
Terry advised me to me to turn off loop auto learn and set loop to 80 to stop codes
I was wondering if maybe codes were due to e85
Still running out the e85 tank
I'll fill up with93 tomorrow and do some logs to see if I get the same codes without e85 before turning off the fuel loop auto loop
thanks for the feedback..

Quote:
Originally Posted by rader1 View Post
As alluded to earlier, almost all gasoline currently sold in the US is atleast 10%-15% ethanol(higher concentrations elsewhere in the world.) It has been this way for a while now and i'm sure BMW/Continental was aware of this when designing the fuel system.

IMO the thing that e85 is most useful for, when not autotooning, is to keep timing corrections at bay on aggressive maps. If making an e85 map in ATR then a set ratio has to be determined and strictly adhered to, which isn't a problem if e85 and 9x are sold together in the same station are conveniently located to you.
I can say with experience, this definitely help with my timing corrections.
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      07-11-2012, 11:01 AM   #17
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I have been mixing E85 with CA 91 for about 20,000 miles now. I only used about 20-30% E85 up until JB4 started to be tuned for it at the beginning of this year. Since then I have been on about 40-50% on map 6 then map 5 and have had no fuel or air issues. I have good timing and am boosting over 16 psi consistently.
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      07-11-2012, 02:37 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roundel335
According to the owner's manual, E85 is specifically not recommended for the engines in current BMWs - the fuel systems are not equipped for it, and damage could occur with long-term use. If you run E85 and develop fuel system problems or other types of issues or damage to the engine, your warranty won't be honored. That said, almost all gasoline these days contains a certain percentage of ethanol, but not 85% like E85 - more like "may contain up to 10% ethanol", as it says on the pumps. So if you stick with no more than 10 to 15 percent, it will probably be diluted enough not to cause damage. The other factor is that ethanol is "hygroscopic" and will retain water/moisture unlike gasoline, so there is a possibility of injector damage. It's like it says on over-the-counter drugs - "please read the label carefully and use only as directed".
Does this mean that meth injection will have the same risk?
I ask this, because I'm contemplating on either getting e85 mix or meth injection for my car
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      07-11-2012, 02:47 PM   #19
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Does this mean that meth injection will have the same risk?
I ask this, because I'm contemplating on either getting e85 mix or meth injection for my car
No... Meth is injected in the chargepipe
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      07-11-2012, 02:54 PM   #20
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Running E85 for the past 8,000 miles, mods in signature....running it at 45-50%
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      07-11-2012, 04:01 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Randomaccess335 View Post
JB4 tuned FBO+meth
I went to the track on Friday night 50/50 e85/93
1st run 12.0@116
2nd run 12.3 codes 29e2/29f2
3rd run 12.5 same codes
Codes popped just before 100mph at WOT
Hooked up to laptop and fuel loop was @ 98 each time it coded
Terry advised me to me to turn off loop auto learn and set loop to 80 to stop codes
I was wondering if maybe codes were due to e85
Still running out the e85 tank
I'll fill up with93 tomorrow and do some logs to see if I get the same codes without e85 before turning off the fuel loop auto loop

u have good tires?? should be 11s i would say
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      07-11-2012, 04:53 PM   #22
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jb4 and map 5 wih 50/50 with e85/93. 17psi with no meth, no dips in timing....Nuff Said
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