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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > Really!! Another E85 Thread...



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      07-30-2012, 08:39 PM   #89
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Everyone needs to remember that once temps drop into the 50* range, you should stop putting E85 in your tank since it's more likely to absorb water moisture as it gets colder (and if there's enough water moisture in your tank & it's cold out, it won't evaporate out & could hydrolock your engine -- FTL )
How do the thousands of flex fuel vehicles get by if this was highly probable?
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      07-30-2012, 10:18 PM   #90
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How do the thousands of flex fuel vehicles get by if this was highly probable?
They're purpose built to use E85, we're NOT (in case you haven't noticed we don't have one of these on the back of our cars)
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      07-30-2012, 11:00 PM   #91
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They're purpose built to use E85, we're NOT (in case you haven't noticed we don't have one of these on the back of our cars)
Thank you for the pictures, those trunk emblems were incredibly insightful.

Seriously, my question is really searching for understanding. Do we know what is different about their fuel systems, such as tank fluid separators, tank vent check valves, etc.? No speculation please.

FWIW some other, non-"flex fuel" platforms run e85 year-round.
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      07-31-2012, 07:04 AM   #92
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FWIW some other, non-"flex fuel" platforms run e85 year-round.
Your sarcasm illustrates how little you've looked into this If you want to be adventurous, you could run E85 year round. Since the N54 was designed to run on real pump gas (minimum 91 octane, 93 if available), I don't have a problem running E85 when the (warm) weather supports it.

Also, here's an article how E85 actually has a "winter formula" for states that experience cold winter's actually switch over to what would be E70
http://green.autoblog.com/2007/02/27...ith-an-e85-st/
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      07-31-2012, 07:26 AM   #93
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Benzy, the guy who knows 60% and argues like an authoritative source!

E85 has 3 blends and runs class 2 during shoulder months.

Moisture in e85 can be a problem from a long term corrosively standpoint, but it picks up that moisture at the pump station where turn over is low.

You will not hydrolock your engine from moisture in e85, these injectors atomize the fuel, including whatever water is in it. Have you seen people deadpan their engines? Extrapolate and reign back the silly crap advice/half logic half making stuff up. I got my eye on you
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      07-31-2012, 07:28 AM   #94
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      07-31-2012, 09:06 AM   #95
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Originally Posted by The Ghost View Post
Thank you for the pictures, those trunk emblems were incredibly insightful.

Seriously, my question is really searching for understanding. Do we know what is different about their fuel systems, such as tank fluid separators, tank vent check valves, etc.? No speculation please.

FWIW some other, non-"flex fuel" platforms run e85 year-round.
The 2 main differences that allow OEM flexfuel vehicles to run E85 year round is the winter blend, as others have stated, and the built-in tuning compensation which is based on the flex fuel sensor. From what I've seen using E85 in 2 of my cars is that it needs different compensation for engine temp and air temp (which is closely related to fuel temp) since the density of the fuel is different and the atomisation characteristics change more drastically than gasoline at different temps.
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      07-31-2012, 09:34 AM   #96
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Does anyone have a list of states that show which states have a winter blend? I'm guessing where I am in SoCal it's the same blend year round?
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      07-31-2012, 09:39 AM   #97
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Does anyone have a list of states that show which states have a winter blend? I'm guessing where I am in SoCal it's the same blend year round?
This chart seems to show two blends in SoCal, but it's a little outdated. The guys down there are saying they get the same blend year round.
http://www.e85mustangs.com/regions123.html
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      07-31-2012, 10:03 AM   #98
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Let's look at this from a layman's perspective.

Has anyone accidentally pulled up to a diesel pump and tried putting the nozzle into your car. (Unless you are a 335d) It won't fit, because the mistake of putting diesel into your car is detrimental.

Now if e85 was extremely harmful to cars that weren't designed for it, don't you think the manufacturers would have also thought to make the fuel nozzle a different size.
I'm just saying.


Also, do you ever wonder why car companies don't make their high compression, high horsepower cars e85 compatible? It's all about EPA standards, many high hp cars are close to a gas guzzler tax (I'm not talking bout the 335) and if the company said, "this car is e85 compatible" that would hammer their EPA gas ratings and we all know how strict the govt is pushing for new gas mileage regulations.

Think outside of the box benzy.
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      07-31-2012, 10:31 AM   #99
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Now if e85 was extremely harmful to cars that weren't designed for it, don't you think the manufacturers would have also thought to make the fuel nozzle a different size.
I'm just saying.
This isn't a terribly useful point, though I agree, the government shouldn't have to babysit to make sure we don't do stupid crap, like use the wrong fuel. If they know curbs can hurt our wheels why don't they put pillows over them? If they know driving fast is dangerous why don't they just limit all our cars to 65mph? If they know hot coffee can hurt you why don't they put warnings on it?

Oh wait. They do. People should just try not being stupid. If you wanna use e85, try it. Other people are doing it. If your car explodes, well then that's what you get. No matter how much we discuss this it won't change anything. Read the facts, create an opinion, act upon it. Problem solved. Let's eat cake.
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      07-31-2012, 11:01 AM   #100
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      07-31-2012, 11:12 AM   #101
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Originally Posted by mrbillytalent View Post
This isn't a terribly useful point, though I agree, the government shouldn't have to babysit to make sure we don't do stupid crap, like use the wrong fuel. If they know curbs can hurt our wheels why don't they put pillows over them? If they know driving fast is dangerous why don't they just limit all our cars to 65mph? If they know hot coffee can hurt you why don't they put warnings on it?

Oh wait. They do. People should just try not being stupid. If you wanna use e85, try it. Other people are doing it. If your car explodes, well then that's what you get. No matter how much we discuss this it won't change anything. Read the facts, create an opinion, act upon it. Problem solved. Let's eat cake.
Trust me, that's not the logic that I'm using to say it's ok to use E85. I'm just stating that making things dummy proof for the average consumer is what many companies do.

I know some people who grew up in jersey that don't even know how to pump their own gas because it's state law to have a worker do it for you.
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      07-31-2012, 02:48 PM   #102
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Originally Posted by dfv2 View Post
Benzy, the guy who knows 60% and argues like an authoritative source!

E85 has 3 blends and runs class 2 during shoulder months.

Moisture in e85 can be a problem from a long term corrosively standpoint, but it picks up that moisture at the pump station where turn over is low.

You will not hydrolock your engine from moisture in e85, these injectors atomize the fuel, including whatever water is in it. Have you seen people deadpan their engines? Extrapolate and reign back the silly crap advice/half logic half making stuff up. I got my eye on you
+1

99% of the time I just skip over his posts nowadays.
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      07-31-2012, 03:03 PM   #103
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Originally Posted by dfv2 View Post
Benzy, the guy who knows 60% and argues like an authoritative source!

E85 has 3 blends and runs class 2 during shoulder months.

Moisture in e85 can be a problem from a long term corrosively standpoint, but it picks up that moisture at the pump station where turn over is low.

You will not hydrolock your engine from moisture in e85, these injectors atomize the fuel, including whatever water is in it. Have you seen people deadpan their engines? Extrapolate and reign back the silly crap advice/half logic half making stuff up. I got my eye on you
Came here to say this almost verbatim. Thanks for saving me the time. E85 blends also drop in the winter in ethanol content to help with cold cranking as ethanol has a lower heat of vaporization which makes cranking more difficult without heat in the engine to help vaporize the fuel. E85 is hygroscopic, but it doesn't just sit around sopping up water if you open the gas cap. Long term storage (multi-month) can be an issue without proper containers, but certainly no problem in a decently used car. There is absolutely no problem with moisture in the fuel in the winter as compared to the summer with regards to hydrolocking, that is complete BS.
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      07-31-2012, 03:27 PM   #104
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Quote:
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Moisture in e85 can be a problem from a long term corrosively standpoint
Alot of lsx guys run small amounts of tcw3 2 cycle lube in the fuel to combat the corrosive properties of the ethanol blends in modern fuels, and tons of rotary guys use it in much larger amounts for other reasons. Im sure the majority of bmw owners would want nothing to do with it but I wonder if it would provide any benefits to running higher concentration of ethanol over the long run.
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      08-19-2012, 09:09 PM   #105
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It's all about EPA standards, many high hp cars are close to a gas guzzler tax (I'm not talking bout the 335) and if the company said, "this car is e85 compatible" that would hammer their EPA gas ratings and we all know how strict the govt is pushing for new gas mileage regulations.

Think outside of the box benzy.
Looking for a link some1 posted about Ethanol Fuel Drums for sale & I saw this. E85 gas worse gas mileage, you're point makes no sense.

Also for every1, here's a link about Ethanol Fuel & it's water absorption properties. It specifically details how prone Ethanol Fuel is to water absorption, specifically recommending that you empty a tank every 2-3 weeks.

http://www.fuel-testers.com/expirati...hanol_gas.html

NOW for anyone that's run an E85 blend, you're lucky if it last more than a weekend. Now I will acknowledge that it's much more likely that there will be corrosive damage to your fuel system if the Ethanol fuel absorbs a large amount of water, but no one knows for sure with this platform how we'll fair through a real winter if people continue to run E85 once it gets into freezing temps.

Once it gets cold, I will return to regular 93 octane pump gas. Why? Well for one the ethanol content will decrease in E85 and I won't be able to run my E85 map appropriately (no AutoTune for COBB), but more because there's no need to run a high performance map when its 25* outside & there's snow on the ground.
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      08-19-2012, 10:31 PM   #106
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Looking for a link some1 posted about Ethanol Fuel Drums for sale & I saw this.
This one?

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...=712323&page=2
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      08-19-2012, 10:52 PM   #107
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No, unfortunately (?) both the websites on that thread are for E98
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      11-20-2012, 05:48 PM   #108
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In fact, I just plain haven't seen diddly to support e85's corrosive-witchcraft with ANY late model vehicle.
hate to be the bearer of bad news,
I have inside information that flex fuel cars (vehicles that are designed to run pure E85 from the factory) are having issues with the high alcohol content removes the plasticizer added to plastic/rubber parts to make them more elastic, they end up drying up and cracking prematurely.
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      11-20-2012, 05:58 PM   #109
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hate to be the bearer of bad news,
I have inside information that flex fuel cars (vehicles that are designed to run pure E85 from the factory) are having issues with the high alcohol content removes the plasticizer added to plastic/rubber parts to make them more elastic, they end up drying up and cracking prematurely.
i have inside information that our plastic/rubber parts dont have "plasticizer" added

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      11-20-2012, 06:48 PM   #110
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