E90Post
 


TNT Racewerks
 
BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > BMW E90/E92/E93 3-series General Forums > Regional Forums > UK > Eibach Pros on an Msport.... Waste of money



Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      07-16-2012, 11:23 AM   #45
Guvernator
Captain
 
Drives: BMW 335i SE Cabriolet
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: LONDON

Posts: 616
iTrader: (0)

Still curious as to what the place you had them fitted might have to say on the matter OP, have you asked them? Surely they must fit loads of these kits so might have some insight into why some cars appear to get lower and others don't.
Guvernator is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      07-16-2012, 11:24 AM   #46
parapaul
Colonel
 
parapaul's Avatar
 
Drives: E91 330d M Sport
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Stoke on Trent

Posts: 2,215
iTrader: (1)

Garage List
Eibach website lists E10-20-014-07-22 for the 335d...
__________________
Just how many Yorkshire sheep can you fit inside one exhaust?
parapaul is offline   United Kingdom
0
Reply With Quote
      07-16-2012, 11:39 AM   #47
1sh@Crystalwhite
Banned
 
Drives: E92 Space Grey
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: All over the UK!

Posts: 907
iTrader: (19)

I got them done at m-style, these are the springs they ordered:

E10-20-014-12-22

I checked online and they are for my 320i:

Engine:320i or 325i or 330i or 320d
Year: 06.06 - Part No: E10-20-014-12-22
Product Type: Pro-Kit Lowering Front: 35 mm
Lowering Rear: 25 mm


Anyways, in the day of drop, When I asked them, they said give it a week to settle....

These guys are pro's so I do trust their work....

But what would you guys recommend? From their end they've fitted and done everything correctly...

It's only been 2 days but I sincerely doubt they'll drop 30mm suddenly like that!
1sh@Crystalwhite is offline   United Kingdom
0
Reply With Quote
      07-16-2012, 12:18 PM   #48
Hotcoupe
Major General
 
Hotcoupe's Avatar
 
Drives: Don't know yet!
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: UK

Posts: 6,098
iTrader: (2)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1SH View Post
I got them done at m-style, these are the springs they ordered:

E10-20-014-12-22

I checked online and they are for my 320i:

Engine:320i or 325i or 330i or 320d
Year: 06.06 - Part No: E10-20-014-12-22
Product Type: Pro-Kit Lowering Front: 35 mm
Lowering Rear: 25 mm


Anyways, in the day of drop, When I asked them, they said give it a week to settle....

These guys are pro's so I do trust their work....

But what would you guys recommend? From their end they've fitted and done everything correctly...

It's only been 2 days but I sincerely doubt they'll drop 30mm suddenly like that!
Ish,according to the Eibach website the Pro kit only offers a drop of 30mm all round,however, resellers claim a more generous drop


Info direct from Eibach:

335d PN- E10-20-014-13-22
Lowering 30 mm -Axle Load FA to 990 kg, Axle Load RA to 1090kg

335i PN-E10-20-014-13-22
Lowering 30 mm Axle Load FA to 990 kg, Axle Load RA to 1090kg

330D PN-E10-20-014-13-22
Lowering 30 mm Axle Load FA to 990 kg, Axle Load RA to 1090kg

330i PN-E10-20-014-12-22
Lowering 30 mm Axle Load FA to 930 kg, Axle Load RA to 1090kg

325D PN-E10-20-014-13-22
Lowering 30 mm Axle Load FA to 990 kg, Axle Load RA to 1090kg

325i PN-E10-20-014-12-22
Lowering 30 mm Axle Load FA to 930 kg, Axle Load RA to 1090kg

320D PN-E10-20-014-12-22
Lowering 30 mm Axle Load FA to 930 kg, Axle Load RA to 1090kg

320i PN-E10-20-014-12-22
Lowering 30 mm Axle Load FA to 930 kg, Axle Load RA to 1090kg
__________________
=================================


Never argue with an idiot on the internet. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.
Hotcoupe is offline   United Kingdom
0
Reply With Quote
      07-16-2012, 02:38 PM   #49
1sh@Crystalwhite
Banned
 
Drives: E92 Space Grey
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: All over the UK!

Posts: 907
iTrader: (19)

Thanks for the info bro, but I haven't had any drop at all! If you compare my pics from before and after, the only visible difference is the location!

Lol maybe I should contact eibach!
1sh@Crystalwhite is offline   United Kingdom
0
Reply With Quote
      07-16-2012, 03:09 PM   #50
HighlandPete
Brigadier General
 
Drives: BMW F11 535i Touring
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Scotland, Highland Region

Posts: 4,296
iTrader: (0)

The correct part number is being used, assume the actual parts are to that number.

Eibach state 30mm drop (as stated in other posts), but from what baseline? Standard ride height for non M-sport supension I understand. M-sport is not mentioned in data as the baseline, so are for both suspension options of designated model code and engine size.

If my understanding is correct, for M-sport suspension, only about 15mm is expected anyway.

HighlandPete
HighlandPete is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      07-16-2012, 03:21 PM   #51
doughboy
Major General
 
doughboy's Avatar
 
Drives: E91 335i Sold.
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: UK

Posts: 6,370
iTrader: (2)

OP,

If yours is an M sport, then the drop should be 10mm right? As the quoted drops are from SE spec, and M sport is 20mm lower than that already?

Also, IMO the first picture shows the highest front arch clearance I have ever seen!!

Ideally you should have measured the ride height before fitting and written it down. (measure from wheel centre cross vertically up to the arch lip)

You can still measure it now and then again in a week, otherwise you'll never be able to spot a few mm change.
__________________
335i gone E63 AMG here at last!
doughboy is offline   United Kingdom
0
Reply With Quote
      07-16-2012, 04:10 PM   #52
makkan00
Major General
 
makkan00's Avatar
 
Drives: E91 330D
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Essex

Posts: 6,758
iTrader: (46)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guvernator View Post

Also the sportline kits are definately also listed as progressive springs on the website. I just wonder if the drop is too aggrresive on that kit and will cause issues over speedbumps, especially for those with front spoilers\splitters.
Waiting for my sportsline kit. Damn! it is taking some time to come from Germany.
It is not as aggressive as H&R. It is somewhere b/w Eibach pro and H&R.
Will update with photos once they are fitted.
__________________
makkan00 is online now   United Kingdom
0
Reply With Quote
      07-16-2012, 04:34 PM   #53
mobilejo
Second Lieutenant
 
Drives: e70 3.0d
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: United Kingdom

Posts: 233
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by doughboy View Post
OP,

If yours is an M sport, then the drop should be 10mm right? As the quoted drops are from SE spec, and M sport is 20mm lower than that already?

Also, IMO the first picture shows the highest front arch clearance I have ever seen!!

Ideally you should have measured the ride height before fitting and written it down. (measure from wheel centre cross vertically up to the arch lip)

You can still measure it now and then again in a week, otherwise you'll never be able to spot a few mm change.
I don't think its about the 'numbers', I think what the OP is miffed about is that his car doesn't look like other cars of that kind on eibachs. SE or M Sport they should all end up at the same place once the springs are changed and thats what bothers me - the end result on his car is just not right.

Mine is an SE (saloon granted) but technically started higher than the OP's and yet on eibachs has ended up lower than the OP's.

Something is not right.
mobilejo is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      07-17-2012, 05:07 AM   #54
1sh@Crystalwhite
Banned
 
Drives: E92 Space Grey
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: All over the UK!

Posts: 907
iTrader: (19)

Quote:
Originally Posted by HighlandPete View Post

If my understanding is correct, for M-sport suspension, only about 15mm is expected anyway.

HighlandPete
I dont think I've even had a 1mm drop let alone 15mm!

Quote:
Originally Posted by doughboy View Post
OP,

If yours is an M sport, then the drop should be 10mm right? As the quoted drops are from SE spec, and M sport is 20mm lower than that already?

Also, IMO the first picture shows the highest front arch clearance I have ever seen!!

Ideally you should have measured the ride height before fitting and written it down. (measure from wheel centre cross vertically up to the arch lip)

You can still measure it now and then again in a week, otherwise you'll never be able to spot a few mm change.
I'll do that today! Thanks mate!

Quote:
Originally Posted by mobilejo View Post
I don't think its about the 'numbers', I think what the OP is miffed about is that his car doesn't look like other cars of that kind on eibachs. SE or M Sport they should all end up at the same place once the springs are changed and thats what bothers me - the end result on his car is just not right.

Mine is an SE (saloon granted) but technically started higher than the OP's and yet on eibachs has ended up lower than the OP's.

Something is not right.
I know mate! Ive been trying to figure that out myself.... Do I uprate the dampers/ shocks too?

Very frustrating!
1sh@Crystalwhite is offline   United Kingdom
0
Reply With Quote
      07-17-2012, 05:24 AM   #55
mobilejo
Second Lieutenant
 
Drives: e70 3.0d
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: United Kingdom

Posts: 233
iTrader: (0)

If you're on standard M Sport dampers then they will not be the reason for the lack of drop.

I've heard of Koni FSD's raising the ride height on the e46 but that was due (I suspect) to different spring perch design/height which effectively gives the height an additional few mm.

Your M sport dampers are (I imagine) the same as everyone else's and so would not be responsible for lack of drop.

All other things being equal (perch location, thickness of rubber pad, position of spring on perch) the springs dictate the height, nothing else - shocks don't hold the weight of the car - without the spring to support the weight the shock just compresses, therefore the shock can't be 'keeping' the car higher if you know what I mean.

You said new bumpstops were installed, on the front can you see if the car is or is not basically 'sitting' on the bumpstops? i.e. can you see any of the shock piston itself or are you seeing bumpstop from top to bottom?

Also, can you read the part number off the actual front spring? I remember when I had my M3 a guy on the forum received the wrong springs in his box direct from eibach - each spring has a part number (its different to the part numbers listed above which is the number for a SET of springs) and you can check on the website that you have the correct springs in the box to make up that particular set.
mobilejo is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      07-17-2012, 05:26 AM   #56
1sh@Crystalwhite
Banned
 
Drives: E92 Space Grey
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: All over the UK!

Posts: 907
iTrader: (19)

Quote:
Originally Posted by mobilejo View Post
If you're on standard M Sport dampers then they will not be the reason for the lack of drop.

I've heard of Koni FSD's raising the ride height on the e46 but that was due (I suspect) to different spring perch design/height which effectively gives the height an additional few mm.

Your M sport dampers are (I imagine) the same as everyone else's and so would not be responsible for lack of drop.

All other things being equal (perch location, thickness of rubber pad, position of spring on perch) the springs dictate the height, nothing else - shocks don't hold the weight of the car - without the spring to support the weight the shock just compresses, therefore the shock can't be 'keeping' the car higher if you know what I mean.

You said new bumpstops were installed, on the front can you see if the car is or is not basically 'sitting' on the bumpstops? i.e. can you see any of the shock piston itself or are you seeing bumpstop from top to bottom?

Also, can you read the part number off the actual front spring? I remember when I had my M3 a guy on the forum received the wrong springs in his box direct from eibach - each spring has a part number (its different to the part numbers listed above which is the number for a SET of springs) and you can check on the website that you have the correct springs in the box to make up that particular set.
Thanks so much for your time and help!

In regards to the bumpstop I dont think it's been changed however I'll check!

Also I'll check the springs as soon as possible.

Appreciate it!
1sh@Crystalwhite is offline   United Kingdom
0
Reply With Quote
      07-17-2012, 10:10 AM   #57
doughboy
Major General
 
doughboy's Avatar
 
Drives: E91 335i Sold.
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: UK

Posts: 6,370
iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by mobilejo View Post
I don't think its about the 'numbers', I think what the OP is miffed about is that his car doesn't look like other cars of that kind on eibachs. SE or M Sport they should all end up at the same place once the springs are changed and thats what bothers me - the end result on his car is just not right.


Something is not right.
Agree - But before he can go back to the fitter / eibach he needs some numbers, so he needs to get the tape measure out and write down some figures. No good saying 'it doesn't look right guv'.

I was saying how the pictures of the OPs car BEFORE the kit was fitted don't look right either.

That is some monster arch gap for the standard car, maybe some repair work and/or wrong parts had been fitted on the the car previously?
__________________
335i gone E63 AMG here at last!
doughboy is offline   United Kingdom
0
Reply With Quote
      07-17-2012, 10:37 AM   #58
Guvernator
Captain
 
Drives: BMW 335i SE Cabriolet
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: LONDON

Posts: 616
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by doughboy View Post
Agree - But before he can go back to the fitter / eibach he needs some numbers, so he needs to get the tape measure out and write down some figures. No good saying 'it doesn't look right guv'.

I was saying how the pictures of the OPs car BEFORE the kit was fitted don't look right either.

That is some monster arch gap for the standard car, maybe some repair work and/or wrong parts had been fitted on the the car previously?
To be honest the arch gap on mine is pretty similiar and mine is a 335i cab with M-sport suspension. The arch gap is actually quite comical.

Besides it doesn't really matter what arch gap he started off with, that still doesn't explain the discrepancy between the OP's car which doesn't seem to have changed AT ALL as opposed to other people's cars which have seen a considerable and noticeable change in ride height.
Guvernator is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      07-17-2012, 12:38 PM   #59
1sh@Crystalwhite
Banned
 
Drives: E92 Space Grey
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: All over the UK!

Posts: 907
iTrader: (19)

Quote:
Originally Posted by doughboy View Post
Agree - But before he can go back to the fitter / eibach he needs some numbers, so he needs to get the tape measure out and write down some figures. No good saying 'it doesn't look right guv'.

I was saying how the pictures of the OPs car BEFORE the kit was fitted don't look right either.

That is some monster arch gap for the standard car, maybe some repair work and/or wrong parts had been fitted on the the car previously?
No repair work whatsoever mate. Everything was still OEM prior to changing springs. A couple of friends of mine who have stock 3 series also have the same arch gap.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guvernator View Post
To be honest the arch gap on mine is pretty similiar and mine is a 335i cab with M-sport suspension. The arch gap is actually quite comical.

Besides it doesn't really matter what arch gap he started off with, that still doesn't explain the discrepancy between the OP's car which doesn't seem to have changed AT ALL as opposed to other people's cars which have seen a considerable and noticeable change in ride height.
Im going to contact eibach tomorrow.
1sh@Crystalwhite is offline   United Kingdom
0
Reply With Quote
      07-17-2012, 02:12 PM   #60
parapaul
Colonel
 
parapaul's Avatar
 
Drives: E91 330d M Sport
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Stoke on Trent

Posts: 2,215
iTrader: (1)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1SH View Post
Im going to contact eibach tomorrow.
I strongly suspect the first thing they'll say is take it back to whoever did the work

That's what I'd suggest too - first port of call is to make sure everything's fitted right, although with both sides being the same height the fitting is probably ok.

It honestly looks like the springs are just too stiff for your car - like they're designed for a much heavier engine.
__________________
Just how many Yorkshire sheep can you fit inside one exhaust?
parapaul is offline   United Kingdom
0
Reply With Quote
      07-17-2012, 02:39 PM   #61
parapaul
Colonel
 
parapaul's Avatar
 
Drives: E91 330d M Sport
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Stoke on Trent

Posts: 2,215
iTrader: (1)

Garage List
Just been trawling through my old photos and posts on another forum, but can't find the pictures I thought I had - I had this exact problem with my old Signum. It started with standard (ie non-sport) suspension, and I lowered it with Pro-Kit springs but I could barely tell by looking at it. Ride was improved no end, but visually it looked rubbish.

If there hadn't been so many pictures on here to convince me, I'd have avoided Pro-Kit springs myself.
__________________
Just how many Yorkshire sheep can you fit inside one exhaust?
parapaul is offline   United Kingdom
0
Reply With Quote
      07-17-2012, 05:42 PM   #62
Guvernator
Captain
 
Drives: BMW 335i SE Cabriolet
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: LONDON

Posts: 616
iTrader: (0)

Still worth speaking to Eibach too I reckon. There HAS to be a logical explanation for the difference in ride heights between cars with the same kit.
Guvernator is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      07-18-2012, 02:59 AM   #63
doughboy
Major General
 
doughboy's Avatar
 
Drives: E91 335i Sold.
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: UK

Posts: 6,370
iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guvernator View Post
Still worth speaking to Eibach too I reckon. There HAS to be a logical explanation for the difference in ride heights between cars with the same kit.
The only logical explanation is that the springs are not consistent, either slightly different lengths or rates OR the model variants weight differences are at fault, or a combination of both.

That's the only way the same cars can differ in ride height. As I said before, BMW fit different rate springs simply because you have an auto box or a sunroof, so it's quite fine line to get the height right if you're not just slamming it and want good ride too.

So let for example, if BMW use 3 or 4 or more different spring choices on a SINGLE '320i' depending on spec and options, how can one '320i' spring from Eibach cover all '320i' equally well?

It can't.

When Birds Auto were developing their B3 suspension kits, they were using Eibach for test springs and they had real trouble with consistency i.e. the 'same' springs were not the 'same' when it came dowm to it. And sometimes they would send the wrong spring for the requested application.
__________________
335i gone E63 AMG here at last!

Last edited by doughboy; 07-18-2012 at 03:07 AM.
doughboy is offline   United Kingdom
0
Reply With Quote
      07-18-2012, 07:43 AM   #64
1sh@Crystalwhite
Banned
 
Drives: E92 Space Grey
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: All over the UK!

Posts: 907
iTrader: (19)

Hey guys!

I spoke with Eibach.

So the spring are the correct version for my car.
I measured the distance from the centre of the wheel to the top of the arch: 14.5cm
Eibach checked and said that it was exactly what they have on their system for a M-sport 320i with pro-kit springs installed.

The quoted value on their website/product page about these springs correlates with SE version cars.

SO I would recommend that in the future, you call Eibach springs (01455 285850) and confirm with them how much drop you'd get first!

Thank you to all of you who helped me out and gave me suggestions!

I'm not going to go coilover route on this car, I guess I'm going to have to live with this arch gap!
1sh@Crystalwhite is offline   United Kingdom
0
Reply With Quote
      07-18-2012, 07:48 AM   #65
Guvernator
Captain
 
Drives: BMW 335i SE Cabriolet
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: LONDON

Posts: 616
iTrader: (0)

I guess as in all things you get what you pay for, I'd still be surprised that someone with the reputation and longevity of Eibach, they've been in the suspension business for years afterall would make such a basic error.

We have also had a report from a poster who changed the springs on his 335d which I beleive is one of the heaviest engine\drivetrain configurations and there was still no change in ride height so if what you say is true about inconsitency, thats rather worrying.

PS What does the Birds setup consist of, just springs or springs and dampers?
Guvernator is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      07-18-2012, 08:01 AM   #66
mobilejo
Second Lieutenant
 
Drives: e70 3.0d
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: United Kingdom

Posts: 233
iTrader: (0)

Wow, I'm pretty shocked.

Although what does this mean then - that if your car was an SE it would have started off 30mm higher than it is now? So it would be at 17.5cm - Anyone with an SE coupe able to check this?

Does this also mean that those of us who have achieved a decent drop with Eibachs have just been lucky?

Eibach have a world wide reputation for making good springs, and I must admit I am damn happy with mine, but this scenario makes think twice about putting them on future cars incase I end up in this predicament and the official answer is "yep, that's what we would expect for your car"!

Can you get any more side on pics of the car on a totally flat surface, wheels pointing dead ahead? stand back a bit and hold the camera at a height where the roof is totally flat at that level (i.e. not looking down on the car or up at it, but square on). That would give us a real indication of the overall effect - I'm just curious is all.
mobilejo is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:29 AM.




e90post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST