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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Technical Forums > Mechanical Maintenance: Break-in / Oil & Fluids / Servicing / Warranty > Why you shouldn't do 15,000 mile oil changes



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      07-18-2007, 08:25 AM   #89
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these engines are built to go 15k miles without oil changes....if you use synthetic. i dont get why people dont listen. this didnt happen just because of regular service intervals....this is something completely different. must have used dino oil.
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      07-18-2007, 08:44 AM   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fizzle View Post
these engines are built to go 15k miles without oil changes....if you use synthetic. i dont get why people dont listen. this didnt happen just because of regular service intervals....this is something completely different. must have used dino oil.
if you read thru the thread, same problem has happened to people who run synthetic and there is nothing to disprove that its not to do with the 15K-20K mile service intervals.

Do your self a favour, if you have oil in your car that has 15K miles on it, don't rev your engine past 4,000 rpm too much.
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      07-18-2007, 10:18 AM   #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by epiphone3 View Post
if you read thru the thread, same problem has happened to people who run synthetic and there is nothing to disprove that its not to do with the 15K-20K mile service intervals.

Do your self a favour, if you have oil in your car that has 15K miles on it, don't rev your engine past 4,000 rpm too much.
there is also nothing that proves it's related to the service intervals

if following the service intervals as the factory recommends really cause the engines to sludge up badly we'd be seeing tons of cases by now, since BMW has been doing longer intervals for years now.

we're seeing far more fuel pumps go bad than engines needing replacement due to sludge buildup. I know E90's haven't been around long enough, but plenty of us on the board have run newer BMW's for many miles without issue.

quit with the BS about I hope you don't rev your engine.... it's all crap

you have no proof the engine buildup is due to intervals, and until cases start coming up I'm going to go ahead and kind of disagree with you.
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      07-18-2007, 12:58 PM   #92
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Originally Posted by ward View Post
there is also nothing that proves it's related to the service intervals

if following the service intervals as the factory recommends really cause the engines to sludge up badly we'd be seeing tons of cases by now, since BMW has been doing longer intervals for years now.

we're seeing far more fuel pumps go bad than engines needing replacement due to sludge buildup. I know E90's haven't been around long enough, but plenty of us on the board have run newer BMW's for many miles without issue.

quit with the BS about I hope you don't rev your engine.... it's all crap

you have no proof the engine buildup is due to intervals, and until cases start coming up I'm going to go ahead and kind of disagree with you.
All I know is that I have now seen several people show up with stories like "I change my oil every 7,500 miles and my engine looks brand new inside after 100K+ miles." I'd rather be one of them.

And I won't quit telling people not to rev the piss out of their engine with 15,000+ miles on the oil. I think its a bad idea and if your oil is that old that you should be taking it easy on the engine. I personally don't see the good sense in pushing the engine oil to its absolute, drop-dead limit... especially not in an engine as expensive as a BMW.
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      07-18-2007, 02:08 PM   #93
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Originally Posted by epiphone3 View Post
All I know is that I have now seen several people show up with stories like "I change my oil every 7,500 miles and my engine looks brand new inside after 100K+ miles." I'd rather be one of them.

And I won't quit telling people not to rev the piss out of their engine with 15,000+ miles on the oil. I think its a bad idea and if your oil is that old that you should be taking it easy on the engine. I personally don't see the good sense in pushing the engine oil to its absolute, drop-dead limit... especially not in an engine as expensive as a BMW.
The "limit" is above what BMW tells us, there's a safety factor used here
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      07-18-2007, 02:38 PM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ward View Post
The "limit" is above what BMW tells us, there's a safety factor used here
A safety factor against what service life? and what accepted engine condition? Maybe BMW accepts more degradation in the engine than you might think or maybe they have shortened their service life with the long oil changs... I am not saying this is for sure the case, but the expected service life with these long oil changes could be lower than you would think or want... all you know for sure is that it will make it to the end of the warantee period with the regular service intervals. But will the engine run like brand new with 100K miles on it? I know mine will...
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      07-18-2007, 05:27 PM   #95
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I agree with Ward that there is too little information here to reach any conclusions. Further, since the car that provided the first set of pictures has little to no documentation I accept that its maintenance history is poor. There is no such thing as good maintenance without good documentation.

That said, we keep chasing our tails in these oil/fluid discussions. No one number is right for everyone. People have different expectations of service life and different levels of risk that they are willing to take on. And most importantly, people have different usage patterns.

The latter is why I am skeptical of BMW’s system. Even GM uses an oil life monitor that looks at cold starts and short trips—but not BMW. And clearly someone who runs highway miles in Georgia should get a longer life out of their oil (and everything else) than someone doing short trips in Fargo.

And then there is the issue of something going wrong, often crankcase ventilation problems. A conservative oil change interval provides protection from problems that can and do occur that shorten oil life but that are not immediately apparent.

But what I really want to see are more 15k oil analysis reports.
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      07-19-2007, 08:57 AM   #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 742 View Post
I agree with Ward that there is too little information here to reach any conclusions. Further, since the car that provided the first set of pictures has little to no documentation I accept that its maintenance history is poor. There is no such thing as good maintenance without good documentation.

That said, we keep chasing our tails in these oil/fluid discussions. No one number is right for everyone. People have different expectations of service life and different levels of risk that they are willing to take on. And most importantly, people have different usage patterns.

The latter is why I am skeptical of BMW’s system. Even GM uses an oil life monitor that looks at cold starts and short trips—but not BMW. And clearly someone who runs highway miles in Georgia should get a longer life out of their oil (and everything else) than someone doing short trips in Fargo.

And then there is the issue of something going wrong, often crankcase ventilation problems. A conservative oil change interval provides protection from problems that can and do occur that shorten oil life but that are not immediately apparent.

But what I really want to see are more 15k oil analysis reports.
I can get along with this point!
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      10-07-2008, 04:39 AM   #97
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So if buying used:

Hey, after reading all of these posts, I'm now concerned about the vehicle that I have a down payment on which is currently being held for me till this weekend. 2002 330 CI with 66k 2nd owner. I have service records from the dealer from the begining indicating oil changes at 8,860, 11,480, 3rd at 15,025 and that is when the car was sold. The 2nd owner changed the oil at 26,478, then at 41,299 and that is when the records end. Again the car has 66k on it currently. I'm in awe that this 2nd owner put 11,334miles on it in 87 days especially in Chicago. This is a convertible and during the winter months only averaged 130miles/day according to dealer records. Mobile 1 5w30 synthetic used every oil change performed by the dealer. No records after 41,299 so 24,700 is a big mystery.. By the looks of it, this 2nd owner didn't care or was just completely oblivious. I agree with piece of mind of changing oil at least 7,500 miles. I would very much appreciate some wise cousel on how to proceed as it pertains to buying this 330ci mystery?? The car is super clean yet I reside in MI and am driving to IL to pick up the car and therefore not close to my trusted mechanic. Should i be concerned??
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      10-07-2008, 09:20 AM   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PFP28 View Post
Hey, after reading all of these posts, I'm now concerned about the vehicle that I have a down payment on which is currently being held for me till this weekend. 2002 330 CI with 66k 2nd owner. I have service records from the dealer from the begining indicating oil changes at 8,860, 11,480, 3rd at 15,025 and that is when the car was sold. The 2nd owner changed the oil at 26,478, then at 41,299 and that is when the records end. Again the car has 66k on it currently. I'm in awe that this 2nd owner put 11,334miles on it in 87 days especially in Chicago. This is a convertible and during the winter months only averaged 130miles/day according to dealer records. Mobile 1 5w30 synthetic used every oil change performed by the dealer. No records after 41,299 so 24,700 is a big mystery.. By the looks of it, this 2nd owner didn't care or was just completely oblivious. I agree with piece of mind of changing oil at least 7,500 miles. I would very much appreciate some wise cousel on how to proceed as it pertains to buying this 330ci mystery?? The car is super clean yet I reside in MI and am driving to IL to pick up the car and therefore not close to my trusted mechanic. Should i be concerned??

Yes, and that would go for any car in a similar condition, not just a BMW.
BTW, I have an 03 X5 with 70K. I can't begin to tell you how many bugs this, like all older BMW's has.

Before you buy this car take it to a good BMW mechanic for a full inspection.

A simple test. Check all 4 windows. Roll them up and down, if any of them click, are slow, or stutter in any way then set aside $1000+ for new window regulators.
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      10-07-2008, 08:52 PM   #99
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buy = 5k miles oil change interval

lease = who cares.....20/25k miles oil change interval....or lifetime

better yet....just top of when the low oil light comes on.....
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      10-08-2008, 11:34 AM   #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 742 View Post

But what I really want to see are more 15k oil analysis reports.
Mine:


Mileage: 17,900ish
Top Off: ~2qts

The chances are your engine is okay but you couldn't tell it from the amount of metal we found in the oil. The problem with the oil change lights is they don't take into account that your engine needs to pass through wear-in and a few brief oil changes get the engine there until the routine oil changes.
This oil is terribly abrasive with metals and silicon and it is abrading parts. The TBN was okay at 2.4 but the oil is thick into the 20W/50 range. Moisture was present but it probably isn't anti-freeze. Run two 2,000 mile
oil changes to clean up the engine.
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