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      01-25-2013, 08:53 AM   #111
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Originally Posted by SaMaster14 View Post
I thought Dinan did?
So where is the big advantage of being way more tunable?
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      01-25-2013, 11:16 AM   #112
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I have found the majority of people that taunt others for getting a DCT over an MT are those who never owned a DCT car in their life and tend to classify the DCT with an AT.
And they would be correct for classifying it as such. DCT is a AT. It isn't your traditional AT but it is still automatic.
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      01-25-2013, 11:25 AM   #113
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And they would be correct for classifying it as such. DCT is a AT. It isn't your traditional AT but it is still automatic.
Thank you. I agree. Shifting in manual mode just isnt the same.
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      01-25-2013, 11:48 AM   #114
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speed 335 is
look S5
women prefer s5
Yes, just last night I was on a hot date... we pulled up next to a s5 at a stoplight. She looked over at the s5 and said "your car is a pile of junk, I am going with Mr s5". I was devastated.
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      01-25-2013, 02:27 PM   #115
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Thank you. I agree. Shifting in manual mode just isnt the same.
Your right its not the same as an MT, 7DCT in manual mode is a lot faster. I have raced nothing but MT's since 1960 starting with Muncie 4SPD Rock Crushers. The DCT is not any easier to run its just runs faster which is what its all about if you are racing with it.

In fact its a lot easier to hold traction when you have both a throttle & clutch to work with than it is with just a throttle.

Personally I have nothing against the current 6SPD MT's, just bought a 135IS 6MT for my daughter to replace the 330Ci ZHP 6MT. I just think there is way to much posturing about what great drivers people are because they have a MT.

If people feel its necessary to take a bow because they have an MT they might want to remember the best drivers in the world, F1, use DCT's

BTW BuraQ's post above is very good description of driving the DCT & how you have to workout the best way to run within your own comfort levels. We both use different techniques, BuraQ a modified launch control start in first - Me a 2nd gear start with throttle feathering, and at similar power levels were about .007 apart in 1/4 mile ET. BuraQ has since added more power & knocked off about 4 tenths but the start, which is the hard part with the 7DCT has improved by .116. If it was all that easy to just point & shoot he would be in the 11's now.
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      01-25-2013, 04:39 PM   #116
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Your right its not the same as an MT, 7DCT in manual mode is a lot faster. I have raced nothing but MT's since 1960 starting with Muncie 4SPD Rock Crushers. The DCT is not any easier to run its just runs faster which is what its all about if you are racing with it.

In fact its a lot easier to hold traction when you have both a throttle & clutch to work with than it is with just a throttle.

Personally I have nothing against the current 6SPD MT's, just bought a 135IS 6MT for my daughter to replace the 330Ci ZHP 6MT. I just think there is way to much posturing about what great drivers people are because they have a MT.

If people feel its necessary to take a bow because they have an MT they might want to remember the best drivers in the world, F1, use DCT's

BTW BuraQ's post above is very good description of driving the DCT & how you have to workout the best way to run within your own comfort levels. We both use different techniques, BuraQ a modified launch control start in first - Me a 2nd gear start with throttle feathering, and at similar power levels were about .007 apart in 1/4 mile ET. BuraQ has since added more power & knocked off about 4 tenths but the start, which is the hard part with the 7DCT has improved by .116. If it was all that easy to just point & shoot he would be in the 11's now.
re F1..I think thats a huge shame as shifting was a huge part of racing. You are talking about racing .....to me dct on the road is boring and annoying. I don't do 0-60 blasts from every light etc. I know they shift faster and I'm not saying anyone is a better driver for driving mt...just saying dct IS automatic in normal driving. Nothing like matching your own revs.
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      01-25-2013, 05:28 PM   #117
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How about when they are tuned?
Dont think there are many tunes for the V8. If there were theyd have to dump a ton of money into the car. Its just not very tune friendly that engine.
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      01-25-2013, 06:24 PM   #118
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...........just saying dct IS automatic in normal driving. Nothing like matching your own revs.

Thing to think about. Corvette uses a DCT in ALMS even though you can't get one from the factory. Reason given "our competitors can use them & we need to keep up".

Next time I am out normal driving one of our 6MT's will try to keep track of my shifts. Shifting has long been relegated to muscle memory & not something I pay a whole lot of attention too. Keeping SA is what keeps me from getting bored on the street not shifting.

One thing I do know is over the same route I will shift the Ranger a lot more than the 6MT BMW. Based on that I might have to be thinking about whether the BMW is more boring than the truck or not.
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      01-26-2013, 12:42 AM   #119
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Dont think there are many tunes for the V8. If there were theyd have to dump a ton of money into the car. Its just not very tune friendly that engine.
It's a supercharged v6.......very tuneable . 400+ is easy with Stasis....warranty too. Not much you can do to normally aspirated engines like the v8, you are right.
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      01-26-2013, 11:58 AM   #120
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Originally Posted by etichi View Post
And they would be correct for classifying it as such. DCT is a AT. It isn't your traditional AT but it is still automatic.
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Originally Posted by 335BBS View Post
Thank you. I agree. Shifting in manual mode just isnt the same.
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Originally Posted by chaz_master View Post
DCT's are still closer to an AT than a MT, the car does most of the work.

I've said it before but unless you're tracking a car then I see little point in DCT.
A DCT can only be classfied as A DCT. Calling it an AT is a misnomer, period, and lacking in knowledge of its reality. In fact I challenge all of you to show me the "mechanical" relation of the DCT to an AT. YOU WILL FIND NONE ! What you will find is the DCT mechanical relation to the MT ie clutches, pressure plates etc.

What sets it apart from the MT is the introduction of an electronic governor/controller that barely makes up 1/10 of the DCT transmission

DCT is DCT. What do you call a vehicle that is electric driven and gas driven ? A Hybrid. DCT is exactly this, a cross class of both MT and AT having the best of two worlds and out performing both whereas the DCT has mechanical relation to the MT all day long

The knowledge of MT on a road course track can be applied the same, but is more challenging with a DCT as you have to predict the DME

100% all manual shifting in a M6 DCT on a road course track
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      01-27-2013, 03:51 AM   #121
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It's a supercharged v6.......very tuneable . 400+ is easy with Stasis....warranty too. Not much you can do to normally aspirated engines like the v8, you are right.
Yeah now its a supercharged v6........when this post was created they were still being made with v8s.
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      01-27-2013, 04:06 AM   #122
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DCT is not a automatic transmission. Instead it is classified as semi-manual or Semi-automatic dual clutch transmission. In other words it is basically a 2 manual transmission with dual clutch housed in one assembly. It has an ability to be driven as a manual without a foot depressed clutch pedal or can be driven like a traditional automatic in certain mode.

As for its superiority over fully manual foot depressed clutch pedal transmission. There is no comparison without a doubt it is way faster in shift speeds that is not humanly possible. Also, even the best of the best fully automatic transmissions can't match its shift speeds.


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And they would be correct for classifying it as such. DCT is a AT. It isn't your traditional AT but it is still automatic.
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      01-27-2013, 01:03 PM   #123
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This whole thing about accepting the DCT in the world of 6MT traditionalists reminds me of the 1966 Corvette. In 66 the Corvette switched to the new fangled disc breaks from the traditional tried & true drum brakes.

GM was afraid the traditionalists would hit hard against the discs so it offered a one model year option for drum brakes on the car. Over 300 were optioned with drums. The 1967 was disc only.

Another interesting point disc brakes were used on 1940’s combat aircraft in WWII so they were not quite as new fangled as the traditionalists might have suggested.
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      01-27-2013, 09:08 PM   #124
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A DCT can only be classfied as A DCT. Calling it an AT is a misnomer, period, and lacking in knowledge of its reality. In fact I challenge all of you to show me the "mechanical" relation of the DCT to an AT. YOU WILL FIND NONE ! What you will find is the DCT mechanical relation to the MT ie clutches, pressure plates etc.

What sets it apart from the MT is the introduction of an electronic governor/controller that barely makes up 1/10 of the DCT transmission

DCT is DCT. What do you call a vehicle that is electric driven and gas driven ? A Hybrid. DCT is exactly this, a cross class of both MT and AT having the best of two worlds and out performing both whereas the DCT has mechanical relation to the MT all day long

The knowledge of MT on a road course track can be applied the same, but is more challenging with a DCT as you have to predict the DME

100% all manual shifting in a M6 DCT on a road course track
When transmission is placed in D does it shift AUTOMATICALLY?
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      01-27-2013, 09:53 PM   #125
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When transmission is placed in D does it shift AUTOMATICALLY?
yes.....when a jet is put on auto pilot is an automatic ?
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      01-27-2013, 10:36 PM   #126
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yes.....when a jet is put on auto pilot is an automatic ?
Totally different question.
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      01-27-2013, 10:38 PM   #127
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Originally Posted by BEAR-AvHistory View Post
This whole thing about accepting the DCT in the world of 6MT traditionalists reminds me of the 1966 Corvette. In 66 the Corvette switched to the new fangled disc breaks from the traditional tried & true drum brakes.

GM was afraid the traditionalists would hit hard against the discs so it offered a one model year option for drum brakes on the car. Over 300 were optioned with drums. The 1967 was disc only.

Another interesting point disc brakes were used on 1940ís combat aircraft in WWII so they were not quite as new fangled as the traditionalists might have suggested.
Some people love them and some don't. If you have to have a/t then dct is the way to go obviously.
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      01-27-2013, 11:57 PM   #128
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Totally different question.
The scenario applies the same, your just not seeing pass the electronic automated function. When I mention a technology with an AUTOMATIC function you obviously noticed the "mechanical" difference regardless if it has a AUTOMATIC function
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      01-28-2013, 09:31 AM   #129
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The scenario applies the same, your just not seeing pass the electronic automated function. When I mention a technology with an AUTOMATIC function you obviously noticed the "mechanical" difference regardless if it has a AUTOMATIC function
you still dont have control of the function like you do with MT. It is mechanical but the function of changing gears is done automatically when a computer tells it to.
...I'd buy the S5.
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      01-28-2013, 10:39 AM   #130
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you still dont have control of the function like you do with MT. It is mechanical but the function of changing gears is done automatically when a computer tells it to.
...I'd buy the S5.
When the computer tells it to if the function is static. If the function is set to dynamic there is limited dictation by the computer unless you do something that can cause potential damage then the computer intervenes.

Dynamic shifting is based on when I tell it to shift, not it dictating the shift

Btw yes you can Rev Match in M Mode on a DCT, and yes you can down shift directly to desired gear so long as it is safe
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      01-28-2013, 10:49 AM   #131
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When the computer tells it to if the function is static. If the function is set to dynamic there is limited dictation by the computer unless you do something that can cause potential damage then the computer intervenes.

Dynamic shifting is based on when I tell it to shift, not it dictating the shift

Btw yes you can Rev Match in M Mode on a DCT, and yes you can down shift directly to desired gear so long as it is safe
....and the upshifts are always smooth regardless of position in the powerband?
Not sure why you won't let this go? There are only 2 pedals. Period.
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      01-28-2013, 11:09 AM   #132
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....and the upshifts are always smooth regardless of position in the powerband?
Not sure why you won't let this go? There are only 2 pedals. Period.
Absolutely yes, it reacts in the same way a MT does but with far more accuracy and precision....the reason why I am am drilling this its because the statements being made show how much many of you are inexperience DCT drivers, therefore making conjecture and assumptions.

Btw does it look like I am using the pedals in that track vid ? No, I dont use pedals and anyone with a MT backgroup will be more prone to use the actual shifter not the pedals. Thats how you can distinguish MT driver by nature behind a DCT car
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