Raced another FBO 335i Last Night: Cobb VS JB4 - Video Inside - BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum

Laid Black 335i · 07-29-2012, 10:44 AM

Raced a friends FBO 335i last night (member "Stucks" here on e90post). Cars are pretty much identical except I have 6MT and Stucks has 6AT. Also, the tune is different. I am Cobb Tuned (Protuned by Jake aka FlyLow335i) and Stucks is JB4 Tuned (Map 5). His car pulls away when I shift from 2nd to 3rd and increases the gap when I shift from 3rd to 4th. The lesson here is that I need to shift FASTER next time

Cars Mods & Details:

2007 BMW 335i (6MT): Cobb Protune, Full Bult On, No Meth, Stock OEM Exhaust, running an 80/20 mix of 93/E85. This is the camera car.

VS.

2008 BMW 335i (6AT): JB4 Tuned (Map 5), Full Bult On, No Meth, Stock OEM Exhaust, running an 80/20 mix of 93/E85.

pits200 · 07-29-2012, 10:49 AM

Ya, it definitely appears he is getting you at the shifts. It also seems you're taking yours to redline where you may be losing some ground instead of short shifting at 6-6.5k rpms.

Good race either way.

AU335i · 07-29-2012, 10:55 AM

yeah those shifts lose you alot of ground.

Laid Black 335i · 07-29-2012, 10:58 AM

Yea I thought my shifts were decent but I guess I will have to work on that.

AU335i · 07-29-2012, 11:15 AM

install a clutch stop... its cheap and helps alot with quicker shifts

BoostAddict · 07-29-2012, 11:16 AM

Just curious, is your car bogging between shifts? Also, from what I've learned with racing other N54's that were AT's and DCT, the only way you will keep up is from 3rd gear 60 roll. The 2-3 shift kills the 6mt no matter how fast you shift. The gear spread is too large, and if you do shift fast you'll just bog.

Laid Black 335i · 07-29-2012, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AU335i

install a clutch stop... its cheap and helps alot with quicker shifts

I have BMS clutch stop, BMS modified clutch valve, and B&M short shifter.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BoostAddict

Just curious, is your car bogging between shifts? Also, from what I've learned with racing other N54's that were AT's and DCT, the only way you will keep up is from 3rd gear 60 roll. The 2-3 shift kills the 6mt no matter how fast you shift. The gear spread is too large, and if you do shift fast you'll just bog.

I agree with you that the 6MT's do better from a 60 roll. When we do another run, we will do a 60 roll. As for bogging, no I don't think so.

RnmEvo9 · 07-29-2012, 11:30 AM

That was a good video, though I am not surprised by the outcome. 6AT definitely has the advantage with its shorter gearing compared to 6MT, but starting at 60mph would definitely be a closer match.

zeenon53 · 07-29-2012, 11:38 AM

Are both of you tuned for the blend of fuel that your running? I wonder what would have happened if he brake boosted the auto? Makes me happy since I own one...

cleex024 · 07-29-2012, 11:42 AM

well obviously the jb4 is on map 5 which is autotune to whatever octane, yadda yadda they have.

cobb is pro tuned to im assuming that is also tuned for it.

6MTE92 · 07-29-2012, 12:01 PM

Ouch. Did jake etune or dynotune you?

91Octane · 07-29-2012, 12:22 PM

JB4 > Cobb...

Not shifting excuse...

benzy89 · 07-29-2012, 12:26 PM

It's the shift killing the race -- The car clearly has a "delay" as Laid_Black has to cross the gate going from 2nd to 3rd gear (~39 seconds into the video).

Obviously 2 cars with the same mods & transmissions (b/c of the gearing difference) would give the best representation of which tune can give more. BUT at the end of the day, who really cares though (unless you're tracking your car)

Be Safe, Go Fast & Have Fun

Laid Black 335i · 07-29-2012, 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 6MTE92

Ouch. Did jake etune or dynotune you?

Right now he is etuning, but since he is local, he will set up a dyno day in the near future for locals to compare numbers between OTS maps and the custom map.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 91Octane

JB4 > Cobb...

Not shifting excuse...

How so? Please explain without turning this into a tuning war.

E90Company · 07-29-2012, 12:38 PM

JB4 FTW

Stucks · 07-29-2012, 12:41 PM

The auto 335i's also have more drivetrain loss than the 6mt 335i's, don't they?

Cool race and quick cars!

Stucks · 07-29-2012, 12:43 PM

Both tunes are good. No tune is "ftw" lol.

idrift4wd · 07-29-2012, 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stucks

The auto 335i's also have more drivetrain loss than the 6mt 335i's, don't they?

Cool race and quick cars!

not necessarily. Its just that autos do not have to lift and stays in boost between shifts.

Stucks · 07-29-2012, 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by idrift4wd

not necessarily. Its just that autos do not have to lift and stays in boost between shifts.

So the auto transmission car with a torque converter does not have more drivetrain loss than a manual trans car of the exact same type? Interesting.

J3NGOe90 · 07-29-2012, 01:17 PM

Close your windows and race again you will see the difference

idrift4wd · 07-29-2012, 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stucks

So the auto transmission car with a torque converter does not have more drivetrain loss than a manual trans car of the exact same type? Interesting.

after i think 10mph torque converter locks up. 335i's are one of a couple cars that automatics are actually faster then the manual counterparts.

even ppk give more power and torque for automatic cars.

ive also raced a FBO 135 (6mt) with a tune-intake e90(6at) and beat him. and only beat him on the shifts.

Stucks · 07-29-2012, 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by idrift4wd

335i's are one of a couple cars that automatics are actually faster then the manual counterparts.

This is for the reasons you have already listed (holding boost through shifts and the ability to launch easier from a dead stop.)

The autos still put down less power though, when compared to 6mt cars. From a roll into triple digit speeds, if shifted quick enough, the 6mt has better gearing for top end

07-29-2012, 10:44 AM	#1
Laid Black 335i F1 Driver Drives: 2007 JB E92 335i 6MT Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: MD Posts: 893 iTrader: (6)	Raced another FBO 335i Last Night: Cobb VS JB4 - Video Inside Raced a friends FBO 335i last night (member "Stucks" here on e90post). Cars are pretty much identical except I have 6MT and Stucks has 6AT. Also, the tune is different. I am Cobb Tuned (Protuned by Jake aka FlyLow335i) and Stucks is JB4 Tuned (Map 5). His car pulls away when I shift from 2nd to 3rd and increases the gap when I shift from 3rd to 4th. The lesson here is that I need to shift FASTER next time Cars Mods & Details: 2007 BMW 335i (6MT): Cobb Protune, Full Bult On, No Meth, Stock OEM Exhaust, running an 80/20 mix of 93/E85. This is the camera car. VS. 2008 BMW 335i (6AT): JB4 Tuned (Map 5), Full Bult On, No Meth, Stock OEM Exhaust, running an 80/20 mix of 93/E85. __________________ Cobb PTF Protuned + FBO
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07-29-2012, 10:58 AM	#4
Laid Black 335i F1 Driver Drives: 2007 JB E92 335i 6MT Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: MD Posts: 893 iTrader: (6)	Yea I thought my shifts were decent but I guess I will have to work on that. __________________ Cobb PTF Protuned + FBO

07-29-2012, 11:16 AM	#6
BoostAddict Captain Drives: SGM 335i Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Boynton Beach, FL Posts: 693 iTrader: (4)	Just curious, is your car bogging between shifts? Also, from what I've learned with racing other N54's that were AT's and DCT, the only way you will keep up is from 3rd gear 60 roll. The 2-3 shift kills the 6mt no matter how fast you shift. The gear spread is too large, and if you do shift fast you'll just bog. __________________ Boost Addictions Inc. 2008 335i 1997 Jetta tdi 16v aba swap Precision 6266 2004.5 350z 475whp 505wtq sold 2000 BMW 323i sold

07-29-2012, 11:38 AM	#9
zeenon53 Major Drives: BMW Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: obx Posts: 1,023 iTrader: (3)	Are both of you tuned for the blend of fuel that your running? I wonder what would have happened if he brake boosted the auto? Makes me happy since I own one... __________________

07-29-2012, 11:42 AM	#10
cleex024 Major Drives: 2008 BMW 335i Coupe Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Virginia Beach Posts: 1,223 iTrader: (2)	well obviously the jb4 is on map 5 which is autotune to whatever octane, yadda yadda they have. cobb is pro tuned to im assuming that is also tuned for it. __________________ Space Gray l 6MT l OSG LSD w/ VAC Race Diff Cover l Cobb e30 l Morr vs8.2 l UUC SSK w/ DSSR l VSRF Catless Dps l RPI Intercooler l CDV Removed l HID AE 8000k l ETS Catback l AST 5200 w/ Vorshlag Camber Plates l ER Dual Oil Coolers l Rear Camber and Toe Arms l K&N Drop In l Solid Tranny/Diff/Subframe Bushings l Bridgestone RE-11

07-29-2012, 10:49 AM	#2
pits200 Lieutenant Colonel Drives: 09 335i X-Drive Black Sapphire Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Pittsburgh Posts: 1,610 iTrader: (0)	Ya, it definitely appears he is getting you at the shifts. It also seems you're taking yours to redline where you may be losing some ground instead of short shifting at 6-6.5k rpms. Good race either way.

07-29-2012, 10:55 AM	#3
AU335i Captain Drives: 2008 335i E92 Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Auburn, AL Posts: 882 iTrader: (3)	yeah those shifts lose you alot of ground.

07-29-2012, 11:15 AM	#5
AU335i Captain Drives: 2008 335i E92 Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Auburn, AL Posts: 882 iTrader: (3)	install a clutch stop... its cheap and helps alot with quicker shifts

07-29-2012, 11:30 AM	#8
RnmEvo9 Lieutenant Colonel Drives: 2008 135i Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Pembroke Pines, FL Posts: 1,641 iTrader: (2)	That was a good video, though I am not surprised by the outcome. 6AT definitely has the advantage with its shorter gearing compared to 6MT, but starting at 60mph would definitely be a closer match.

07-29-2012, 12:01 PM	#11
6MTE92 Banned Drives: E92 6MT Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Florida Posts: 64 iTrader: (0)	Ouch. Did jake etune or dynotune you?

07-29-2012, 12:22 PM	#12
91Octane Captain Drives: Fulltime Haters Pisser Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: You'll love me long time.., Posts: 828 iTrader: (0)	JB4 > Cobb... Not shifting excuse...

07-29-2012, 12:26 PM	#13
benzy89 Banned Drives: '08 E90 335i Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Northern NJ Posts: 2,400 iTrader: (3) Garage List 2008 BMW 335i [3.75]	It's the shift killing the race -- The car clearly has a "delay" as Laid_Black has to cross the gate going from 2nd to 3rd gear (~39 seconds into the video). Obviously 2 cars with the same mods & transmissions (b/c of the gearing difference) would give the best representation of which tune can give more. BUT at the end of the day, who really cares though (unless you're tracking your car) Be Safe, Go Fast & Have Fun

07-29-2012, 12:38 PM	#15
E90Company Major General Drives: 335i Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: SFL Posts: 5,670 iTrader: (2)	JB4 FTW __________________ FBO N54 6AT

07-29-2012, 12:41 PM	#16
Stucks Captain Drives: 2008 E92 335i Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Montgomery County, MD Posts: 993 iTrader: (6)	The auto 335i's also have more drivetrain loss than the 6mt 335i's, don't they? Cool race and quick cars! __________________ Current: 2008 e92 335i coupe. FBO+e85. Stock exhaust, no meth. 421whp/457wtq Previous: 2003 Honda Accord V6 coupe: AEM V2, zex 75 wet shot (sold)

07-29-2012, 12:43 PM	#17
Stucks Captain Drives: 2008 E92 335i Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Montgomery County, MD Posts: 993 iTrader: (6)	Both tunes are good. No tune is "ftw" lol. __________________ Current: 2008 e92 335i coupe. FBO+e85. Stock exhaust, no meth. 421whp/457wtq Previous: 2003 Honda Accord V6 coupe: AEM V2, zex 75 wet shot (sold)

07-29-2012, 01:17 PM	#20
J3NGOe90 Captain Drives: e92 335i 6speed MT only! Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: brooklyn Posts: 656 iTrader: (1)	Close your windows and race again you will see the difference

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