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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Technical Forums > Wash, Wax, Detailing and Cosmetic protection/repairs > swirl marks help!



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      08-09-2013, 05:04 AM   #1
Pr335bob
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swirl marks help!

hi, i have a black saphire e92 had some swirl marks, took it to a guy to take care of it he made it worse!!!! i want to do it myself now any tips? what should i buy to get read of excessive swirl marks?
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      08-09-2013, 05:31 AM   #2
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Opticoat that bish
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      08-09-2013, 07:20 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by beemerdude5150 View Post
Opticoat that bish
You'll just lock in the swirls with Opti-coat. You probably need a compound or a very aggressive polish.
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      08-09-2013, 08:45 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pr335bob View Post
hi, i have a black saphire e92 had some swirl marks, took it to a guy to take care of it he made it worse!!!! i want to do it myself now any tips? what should i buy to get read of excessive swirl marks?
I also have black sapphire

can you post pics?

you will need to use a polisher and compounds to bring the swirls down, then you will need sealant/wax

depends on how deep the defects are.... wolfgang swirl remover then wolfgang finishing glaze will probably work ok on most swirls
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      08-09-2013, 09:58 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miker2013 View Post
I also have black sapphire

can you post pics?

you will need to use a polisher and compounds to bring the swirls down, then you will need sealant/wax

depends on how deep the defects are.... wolfgang swirl remover then wolfgang finishing glaze will probably work ok on most swirls
I found WG TSR 3.0 to not be agressive enough to even remove light swirling on my Monaco Blue. Black Sapphire Metallic and Monaco Blue Metallic have really hard clear coat to cut through. Got any pictures of the defects? I would try Menzerna SI1500 first with a microfiber cutting disc, and if thats not cutting enough, move up to FG400.
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      08-09-2013, 10:50 AM   #6
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Otruba is absolutely right, listen to him. He knows his products very well. Our BMW clearcoat is extremely hard. I personally would go straight to FG400, only because I don't have SI1500. An equivalent would be m105, however that stuff dusts like a mofo lol.
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      08-09-2013, 10:54 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Otruba_843 View Post
I found WG TSR 3.0 to not be agressive enough to even remove light swirling on my Monaco Blue. Black Sapphire Metallic and Monaco Blue Metallic have really hard clear coat to cut through. Got any pictures of the defects? I would try Menzerna SI1500 first with a microfiber cutting disc, and if thats not cutting enough, move up to FG400.
good to know... thx for the post

wg tsr 3.0... I just bot a new 335xi and it has some light swirls and I thought that tsr would be ok... I have a flex and lots of different pads

I don't see the polished you mention on the autopia compare chart.... how strong is si1500 compared to m105?

thanks
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      08-09-2013, 10:58 AM   #8
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Hi, thanks for the quick responses and suggestions , this will be my 1st time buffing a car my self. I've tried meguiars swirl x remover, and after meguiars ultracompound the UC worked better but it kind of desolves or disappears after about 5 mins and I'm back to where I was. Would pad should I get for a machine and wax?
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      08-09-2013, 11:01 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wangsta View Post
Otruba is absolutely right, listen to him. He knows his products very well. Our BMW clearcoat is extremely hard. I personally would go straight to FG400, only because I don't have SI1500. An equivalent would be m105, however that stuff dusts like a mofo lol.
here is the swirling on my sapphire black... I would say it looks slightly better in the pic than in person, I couldn't get the sun to shine properly but you get the idea, its light swirling but its is there pretty bad on hood and trunk

otruba_843 and wangsta.... what are your suggestions for my swirls?

I have a flex, I have the lc hydro tech pads (cyan, tang, crimson) and regular orange and white and red pads

I have tsr 3.0 coming and finishing glaze... could I use the tsr w/ cyan to cut swirls or am I better off with stronger polish and less pad?
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      08-09-2013, 11:01 AM   #10
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      08-09-2013, 11:15 AM   #11
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I'm not sure what polisher Otruba uses, but my experience was with a PC. I see you have a flex, so you may actually be able to work those out since it is much more powerful and forced rotation. Start with the Tang pad on a 2'x2' section and see how it goes. Then as always, move up in aggression as needed. Most likely the Cyan pad will be necessary. Let us know how it works out!
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      08-09-2013, 11:44 AM   #12
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thx wangsta... to be clear I have the flex 3401

I will for sure post before/after

Last edited by miker2013; 08-09-2013 at 12:07 PM.
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      08-09-2013, 01:53 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miker2013 View Post
here is the swirling on my sapphire black... I would say it looks slightly better in the pic than in person, I couldn't get the sun to shine properly but you get the idea, its light swirling but its is there pretty bad on hood and trunk

otruba_843 and wangsta.... what are your suggestions for my swirls?

I have a flex, I have the lc hydro tech pads (cyan, tang, crimson) and regular orange and white and red pads

I have tsr 3.0 coming and finishing glaze... could I use the tsr w/ cyan to cut swirls or am I better off with stronger polish and less pad?
So here is my recommendation. Do a test spot on a corner of the hood in a 2x2 area. Since you have a flex, start off with a Cyan pad on speed 5-6 and do 4-7 section passes while checking your work after each pass. You can try TSR to see if it works. If you are not satisfied, move up to SI1500, and if that doesn't satisfy you, bring out FG400. If you are using SI1500 or especially FG400, you are going to have to follow up with a fine polish like SF4500 to remove the micro marring from using an aggressive polish/compound. FG400 cuts a little slower than M105, but it has a longer working time. M105 dusts like crazy and dries up extremely fast. It's a PITA to work with.
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      08-09-2013, 02:36 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Otruba_843 View Post
So here is my recommendation. Do a test spot on a corner of the hood in a 2x2 area. Since you have a flex, start off with a Cyan pad on speed 5-6 and do 4-7 section passes while checking your work after each pass. You can try TSR to see if it works. If you are not satisfied, move up to SI1500, and if that doesn't satisfy you, bring out FG400. If you are using SI1500 or especially FG400, you are going to have to follow up with a fine polish like SF4500 to remove the micro marring from using an aggressive polish/compound. FG400 cuts a little slower than M105, but it has a longer working time. M105 dusts like crazy and dries up extremely fast. It's a PITA to work with.
thx.... would a wg finishing glaze work instead of sf 4500? assuming I have to use si1500 or fg400 that is

I ask b/c I already have some finishing glaze on hand

do you think there would be any advantage to a mf cutting pad for my application?
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      08-09-2013, 03:15 PM   #15
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thx.... would a wg finishing glaze work instead of sf 4500? assuming I have to use si1500 or fg400 that is

I ask b/c I already have some finishing glaze on hand

do you think there would be any advantage to a mf cutting pad for my application?
SF4500 and Finishing Glaze are pretty similar, with SF4500 being a lot cheaper. You can use Fishing Glaze to follow up SI1500/FG400. MF pads don't work as well on the flex.
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      08-09-2013, 03:16 PM   #16
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thx

I am starting my paint correction next week, ill let you know how it turns out
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      08-09-2013, 03:32 PM   #17
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if you are willing to dish out the extra cash.. sonax perfect finish ftw!!
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      08-09-2013, 04:59 PM   #18
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if you are willing to dish out the extra cash.. sonax perfect finish ftw!!
thx for the tip

I already bot the 'wet fire over ice' combo (bf carnuba sun wax with the bf wet diamond sealant) for my 335xi

once I get the paint corrected, I am gonna finish it with the wg finish glaze and the sealant/wax combo
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      08-09-2013, 05:37 PM   #19
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I am a bit late to this post but I think I might be able to add some values to this conversation.

Wolfgang TSR is very similar to Menzerna SI 1500. Both products are really a medium polish but SI 1500 seems to have a bit more lubrication so therefore ...a longer work time (which is a good thing if you are to do a one-step). Wolfgang finishing glaze is really not a glaze. It is similar to Menzerna PF2500. Here are some charts of SI 1500 and PF 2500 w/ LC Pads.






The Flex 3401 (IMO) is the ultimate one-step machine. When pair with TSR or SI 1500, the level of corrections will surprise you. Do a test spot with the Tangerine pad but I think the Cyan pad will be the one you will be using. TSR finish down pretty well so you might find yourself not needing a second step. I find that varying the speed of the Flex with the above mentioned products works best. Start off with Med (2-3 passes) then high (2-3 passes) then back to med (2 passes).


I would strongly recommend doing a IPA wipe down ( I use CarPro Eraser) prior to laying down your LSP to promote a better bonding.
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      08-09-2013, 05:45 PM   #20
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if you are willing to dish out the extra cash.. sonax perfect finish ftw!!
+1

I agree.. especially with the Rupes 21. I was amazed at what Sonax PF on Rupes 21 with the only Rupes Yellow (Polishing pad) could do especially after I changed the 6" backing plate to the 5" plus the washer mod.
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      08-09-2013, 07:55 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psnt1ol View Post
I am a bit late to this post but I think I might be able to add some values to this conversation.

Wolfgang TSR is very similar to Menzerna SI 1500. Both products are really a medium polish but SI 1500 seems to have a bit more lubrication so therefore ...a longer work time (which is a good thing if you are to do a one-step). Wolfgang finishing glaze is really not a glaze. It is similar to Menzerna PF2500. Here are some charts of SI 1500 and PF 2500 w/ LC Pads.






The Flex 3401 (IMO) is the ultimate one-step machine. When pair with TSR or SI 1500, the level of corrections will surprise you. Do a test spot with the Tangerine pad but I think the Cyan pad will be the one you will be using. TSR finish down pretty well so you might find yourself not needing a second step. I find that varying the speed of the Flex with the above mentioned products works best. Start off with Med (2-3 passes) then high (2-3 passes) then back to med (2 passes).


I would strongly recommend doing a IPA wipe down ( I use CarPro Eraser) prior to laying down your LSP to promote a better bonding.
thx for the post and the charts... I will look for those on the autopia site... very helpful

yes I checked the strength of si1500 vs tsr 3.0 and they are similar

I will get some carpro eraser, been meaning to add it to my kit anyway

thx for the recommendations.... for now I will go with the tsr 3.0 with cyan/tangerine to start.... I am hopeful it will do the job

I am going to add a bottle of fg400 to my kit anyway for more damaged paint so I will have it on hand but probably wont be needed for this job

I will update next week with pics
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      08-09-2013, 08:02 PM   #22
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In my advice, get a pro. Learn one time and then attempt yourself. Your paint is too precious to ruin.

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