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      06-21-2017, 09:32 AM   #1
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Is 165F IAT normal?

Guys my car is hitting really high IAT 165F+ in traffic (heat soaked).

The aluminum charge pipe is too hot to touch. Am I doing damage to the N54?
I feel like my engine temp are higher 240-250F after I put in the ER CP and FMIC. Should I go back to the stock CP?

I don't remember the stock setup getting this hot. Maybe someone running stock CP/FMIC can chime in.
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      06-21-2017, 09:33 AM   #2
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damn lol. I'll hit 110-120 iat in heavy traffic if it's really hot.. I do have the cowl removed though. It drops very quickly to ambient as soon as I'm moving as well. Stock CP and IC
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      06-21-2017, 09:40 AM   #3
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Intercoolers are heat extractors, without wind they cannot cool. Your temperature is within the norm for heat soaked traffic.

240-250 oil temps are also the normal operating temp of this car. If you want reduced oil temps, consider an oil cooler upgrade and an oil T Stat delete.
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      06-21-2017, 09:43 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YoungBlood View Post
damn lol. I'll hit 110-120 iat in heavy traffic if it's really hot.. I do have the cowl removed though. It drops very quickly to ambient as soon as I'm moving as well. Stock CP and IC
I am not sure what the deal is. Is it really just metal vs plastic?
It does cool down if the traffic is moving but this takes a little while.

Car is sluggish with 160F air blowing into the motor.
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      06-21-2017, 09:46 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff@TopGearSolutions View Post
Intercoolers are heat extractors, without wind they cannot cool. Your temperature is within the norm for heat soaked traffic.

240-250 oil temps are also the normal operating temp of this car. If you want reduced oil temps, consider an oil cooler upgrade and an oil T Stat delete.
I agree but I never had this issue with the stock FMIC/CP.
I think heat soak works both ways and the performance parts actually
get soaked more than the stock.

I would love a TStat delete but I have to deal with winter so probably not a good idea.
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      06-21-2017, 09:47 AM   #6
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Theoretically the stock CP would allow for slightly lower IATs since it won't transfer as much heat to the air but it would be so slight you wouldn't notice a difference since the air is not in the CP for long. The IC cools air with convective cooling from airflow over the aluminum fins (it's a heatsink), thus it needs airflow to cool. IATs in traffic will always be higher due to little airflow over the IC and radiation from the engine heating the IC up, though 165 is pretty high. It won't damage anything as long as the engine knows the temp, which it does.
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      06-21-2017, 09:49 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Antetokounmpo View Post
Theoretically the stock CP would allow for slightly lower IATs since it won't transfer as much heat to the air but it would be so slight you wouldn't notice a difference since the air is not in the CP for long. The IC cools air with convective cooling from airflow over the aluminum fins (it's a heatsink), thus it needs airflow to cool. IATs in traffic will always be higher due to little airflow over the IC and radiation from the engine heating the IC up, though 165 is pretty high. It won't damage anything as long as the engine knows the temp, which it does.
Do you think the high temp can be an indicator of other issues? Ambient was like 85F that day. Can a bad turbo dump heat for example?
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      06-21-2017, 09:50 AM   #8
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just pull your cowl out, you can even just bolt your cabin filters back on, or get bms cowl filters. I noticed a 10* reduction in iat, whilst sitting in traffic, and city driving. and it takes longer to get my oil temp pushed as high doing canyon runs and especially auto-x, I have like 20 degree cooler oil temps 2-3 minutes post run with the cowl pulled, and you can see the heat coming out
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      06-21-2017, 09:51 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YoungBlood View Post
just pull your cowl out, you can even just bolt your cabin filters back on, or get bms cowl filters. I noticed a 10 reduction in iat, and it takes longer to get my oil temp pushed as high doing canyon runs and especially auto-x, I have like 20 degree cooler oil temps 2-3 minutes post run with the cowl pulled, and you can see the heat coming out
Yeah but what about heavy rain. I will hate myself if it shorts anything out...
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      06-21-2017, 09:53 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hifidawg09 View Post
I agree but I never had this issue with the stock FMIC/CP.
I think heat soak works both ways and the performance parts actually
get soaked more than the stock.

I would love a TStat delete but I have to deal with winter so probably not a good idea.
With a T stat delete in the winter, oil temps just take longer to warm up. Or simply put the stock T start back in. Also there is a company that sells a lower T stat if you don't want a delete.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hifidawg09 View Post
Do you think the high temp can be an indicator of other issues? Ambient was like 85F that day. Can a bad turbo dump heat for example?
Technically the aluminum will heat up and cool faster. The reality is intake temps at idle are moot.

If you are aiming for lower intake air temps at idle, I'd have to ask why?

Your performance in the vehicle is not at idle, only under WOT.

Anyway, you could cover your charge pipe in reflective tape, it would help in the heat transfer but the majority of your problem is lack of air flow at idle.
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      06-21-2017, 09:56 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hifidawg09 View Post
Yeah but what about heavy rain. I will hate myself if it shorts anything out...
I've been good in pouring rain, snow, and I wash my car at least once a week, that's just my experience though. I've seen people cut the cowl so it seals over the brake booster and ecu as well, and then just run cowl filters. Best of both worlds. That's actually what I may do for winter
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      06-21-2017, 09:57 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff@TopGearSolutions View Post
With a T stat delete in the winter, oil temps just take longer to warm up. Or simply put it back in. Also there is a company that sells a lower T stat if you don't want a delete.


Technically the aluminum will heat up and cool faster. The reality is intake temps at idle are moot.

If you are aiming for lower intake air temps at idle, I'd have to ask why?

Your performance in the vehicle is not at idle, only under WOT.

Anyway, you could cover your charge pipe in reflective tape, it would help in the heat transfer but the majority of your problem is lack of air flow at idle.

The reason is that after the ER CP/FMIC my car is now consuming 1QT per
1000-1500 miles. Is it coincidence? No oil anywhere to be found. In the winter the car had 0 oil consumption with the ER setup.
So maybe if I keep temps low the oil will not disappear on me be it in the rings, turbo seals, value guides.
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      06-21-2017, 09:59 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hifidawg09 View Post
The reason is that after the ER CP/FMIC my car is now consuming 1QT per
1000-1500 miles. Is it coincidence? No oil anywhere to be found. In the winter the car had 0 oil consumption. So its temp related.
correlation does not prove causation. I'd say you have an issue elsewhere if you're burning oil that fast.
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      06-21-2017, 10:00 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YoungBlood View Post
I've been good in pouring rain, snow, and I wash my car at least once a week, that's just my experience though. I've seen people cut the cowl so it seals over the brake booster and ecu as well, and then just run cowl filters. Best of both worlds. That's actually what I may do for winter
Someone should design a lightweight cowl that does this!
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      06-21-2017, 10:03 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YoungBlood View Post
correlation does not prove causation. I'd say you have an issue elsewhere if you're burning oil that fast.
What are the typical culprits? I have 0 blue or while smoke from exhaust. OFH gasket just done. VC looks fine aside from the typical N54 hairline stress crack by cyl 4..

That leaves the rings or valve guides...

And of course there is the fact that it burned 0 oil this winter
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      06-21-2017, 10:04 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hifidawg09 View Post
The reason is that after the ER CP/FMIC my car is now consuming 1QT per
1000-1500 miles. Is it coincidence? No oil anywhere to be found. In the winter the car had 0 oil consumption. So its temp related.
Completely unrelated with regards to adding an intercooler and chargepipe.

This comes down to Water and Oil along with Ambient Temperature changes if the question is heat.

Your Oil Cooler and Coolant controls the temperatures of your vehicle far more - they are WAY hotter then intake air temps and ambient temps.

250F OIL

225F Water
*on average give or take a few*

Those are the main causes of engine heat.

I run colder water temps in my tune and therefore my oil temperature is reduced, you could consider that to help aid in cooling everything down.

I run 195F water now and reduced my oil as much as 30 degrees, depending.

I also run 40W oil in the summer but I never burned oil on 30W. It could also depend on what oil your using in general. For example - Oils like Mobil 1 burns/shears a lot more then comparable oils.
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      06-21-2017, 10:04 AM   #17
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If you're on the stock, plastic, OEM intake box, any heat being radiated from the metal charge pipe is a non-issue; as it pertains to increasing the temp of the initial IAT, The engine is creating much more heat.

Plastic is more of an insulator, when compared to the conductive properties of most metals. The aftermarket, metal CP is actually helping (not much, but some) in reducing the IAT, as evidenced by your not being able to touch it; it's dissipating a miniscule amount of the generated heat.
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      06-21-2017, 10:09 AM   #18
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To give a little perspective on the operating temperatures. My downstream/post oxygen sensor (N55) shows an average temp of 1,350 degrees, Fahrenheit, In my COBB, high flow down pipe, on the highway.
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      06-21-2017, 10:10 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff@TopGearSolutions View Post
Completely unrelated with regards to adding an intercooler and chargepipe.

This comes down to Water and Oil along with Ambient Temperature changes if the question is heat.

Your Oil Cooler and Coolant controls the temperatures of your vehicle far more - they are WAY hotter then intake air temps and ambient temps.

250F OIL

225F Water
*on average give or take a few*

Those are the main causes of engine heat.

I run colder water temps in my tune and therefore my oil temperature is reduced, you could consider that to help aid in cooling everything down.

I run 195F water now and reduced my oil as much as 30 degrees, depending.

I also run 40W oil in the summer but I never burned oil on 30W. It could also depend on what oil your using in general. For example - Oils like Mobil 1 burns/shears a lot more then comparable oils.
I tried M1 0W40, Castrol 0W40 and now twinpower 5W30 all with the same result. Need to investigate the T-stat delete.
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      06-21-2017, 10:13 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LGCubana View Post
To give a little perspective on the operating temperatures. My downstream/post oxygen sensor (N55) shows an average temp of 1,350 degrees, Fahrenheit, In my COBB, high flow down pipe, on the highway.
Talk about too hot to touch! I also have Cobb maybe I can get a read on my exhaust temp. I have stock DP and 2nd cat delete.
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      06-21-2017, 10:14 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hifidawg09 View Post
I tried M1 0W40, Castrol 0W40 and now twinpower 5W30 all with the same result. Need to investigate the T-stat delete.
If you have MHD, run the sport coolant option for the 195F water too.

I'd give Motul Xcess 40W a try your next time and if you're still burning then you have an issue elsewhere. Could be PCV or turbo seals in a worst case scenario.

T stat would definitely help for sure too and just to reiterate, getting oil and water temps down on this car helps a lot.

Also, I don't know if you have downpipes but you could consider ceramic coating or wrapping them, that would reduce temps in the engine bay too.
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      06-21-2017, 10:17 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff@TopGearSolutions View Post
Completely unrelated with regards to adding an intercooler and chargepipe.

This comes down to Water and Oil along with Ambient Temperature changes if the question is heat.

Your Oil Cooler and Coolant controls the temperatures of your vehicle far more - they are WAY hotter then intake air temps and ambient temps.

250F OIL

225F Water
*on average give or take a few*

Those are the main causes of engine heat.

I run colder water temps in my tune and therefore my oil temperature is reduced, you could consider that to help aid in cooling everything down.

I run 195F water now and reduced my oil as much as 30 degrees, depending.

I also run 40W oil in the summer but I never burned oil on 30W. It could also depend on what oil your using in general. For example - Oils like Mobil 1 burns/shears a lot more then comparable oils.

I have Cobb, is it easy to tune water to 195F? I played around with ATR but not sure how hard this is. Running the stock stage1+fmic map now.
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