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      01-16-2014, 08:25 PM   #1
OrZonE
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Thumbs down MARANELLO BMW (Toronto) - Lies and Dashcam

I usually don't make it a habit of complaining about dealerships, I realize everyone has their own experiences and levels that they consider acceptable. I still want to share my story so that people who didn't realize what dealers actually do to cars are enlightened and others, that visit this or any dealer, know what they're potentially walking into.

It is not really a horror story, so don't raise your hopes up. It is a case of a dealer blatantly lying and simply refusing to address my problem in any acceptable or scientific way, shape or form.

Onto the story. As most of us know our speedometers are optimistic by nature and show us driving a speed higher than we actually are. I am not sure how other cars behave, but my 3 year old car has an 11-15% discrepancy. Meaning that if my speedo is showing 120kmh, I'm actually doing 105-107kmh. To me - this is a problem. I've confirmed this by testing multiple GPS units against the speedometer of my E92, my TL, an A4 and even a ford fiesta (don't ask). TL has been bang on, Fiesta is ~1-2% off, A4 ~3-5% off. I've even connected to my OBD port and looked at my readout. It is always off and considerably.

Armed with this knowledge I go to my dealer. The dealer keeps my car for 2 days. Runs test and comes back saying that they've extensively tested my car by running it side by side with 2 other cars at 3 different speeds (they were explicitly listed) and all cars were synchronized at all times. They've written the same thing on my report and would not listen to anything else. GPS data was deemed inaccurate by them and they didn't have a dyno to confirm my concerns. So I picked up my car and looked at my dashcam footage and the "extensive" testing that was done. This is what I've found:

They took out my car along with another one. Before setting off, the drivers communicated to accelerate to 60kmh as soon as they could with my car behind matching the speed of the car in front. The front car accelerated, my car kept back about 30-50 meters, this went on for about 40 seconds. They then stopped and the driver of my car said "I had somewhere between 60 and 65" the other said "I had 60 even". That was it. No multiple runs. No multiple cars. No multiple speeds. No side by side. They eyeballed it, because GPS units were "too inaccurate". They didn't even bother to get a diagnostic tool to see which speed is reported by the cluster when driving and compare it with the speedometer. I'm not even going to get into HOW the car was driven, suffice it to say that if I had been driving my car like that all the time I would run through multiple tanks a week.

When I called the dealer to confirm exactly how they had tested the vehicle. They basically repeated the same thing as in the report and added that the drivers were communicating the speeds to each other at all times through their phones (bs). The conversation with the manager went along the same lines with him basically stating that nothing like that ever happened and I should get in touch with BMW corporate.

My current aim is twofold. I want to fix this damned speedometer, if my cluster has the correct reading there's no reason my speedo shouldn't. This will likely be an uphill battle, but any advice is appreciated (without voiding my warranty). My other aim is to voice my concerns about dealerships and based on the reaction I will get here perhaps even name this particular one.

Last edited by OrZonE; 04-22-2014 at 10:06 AM.
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      01-16-2014, 08:34 PM   #2
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Forget it, BMW car are designed to show optimistic speed and they won't change this. It's easier to learn to live with it.

NB: By coding you can change the value a little bit on the digital speed but still always over the real value.
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      01-16-2014, 08:36 PM   #3
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This is actually normal for our cars to read a speed higher than what we are actually driving. I think they do this to compensate dor different wheel sizes. The bigger you go, the closer the speed matches to the actual speed. The car has a digital speedo that knows the actual speed at all times. This is a feature that can be coded in.
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      01-16-2014, 08:44 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Modded328FTW View Post
The bigger you go, the closer the speed matches to the actual speed.
I've had 19s and 17s on my car, same result. Rolling diameter doesn't change though, so I'm not sure how what you said is relevant.

If I code the car I'll likely void warranty, so I need an official way to do this. Is everyone's speedometer off by 15%? It is really is off by that much, it isn't 5% or 10%.

Modded328FTW I can live with 2%, 5%. Whenever I drive my e92 I get places slower as I never know how much I'm actually doing unless I start hooking up my GPS or OBD tool. This is a pain and clutters up the cabin.
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      01-16-2014, 08:53 PM   #5
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The rolling diameter is not exactly the same when you up the size. I went from 10-13 km/hr over with 16s to 5km/hr over with 18s/19s.

Coding a feature like that will not void your warranty. It's an oem feature on the car.Up to you though,
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      01-16-2014, 10:01 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Modded328FTW View Post
The rolling diameter is not exactly the same when you up the size. I went from 10-13 km/hr over with 16s to 5km/hr over with 18s/19s.

Coding a feature like that will not void your warranty. It's an oem feature on the car.Up to you though,
Rolling diameter shouldn't change much at all if you use the right tire sizes.

You can code the digital speedo in with the correction factor and the dealer wouldn't even notice.
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      01-16-2014, 10:35 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperBmw View Post
Rolling diameter shouldn't change much at all if you use the right tire sizes.
I can confirm this. My speed, relative to my GPS hasn't changed as I am on OEM 17 or OEM 19 sizes.


I'm surprised that no one commented on the outright lie that I caught the dealer in though.


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Originally Posted by Modded328FTW View Post
Coding a feature like that will not void your warranty. It's an oem feature on the car. Up to you though
Will look into it. Any leads? Cheers!
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      01-17-2014, 12:07 AM   #8
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Iv caught a dealer in a lie before. Told them to not wash my car. It came out washed. I told the sa to not wash it. He says he's sure they just hand washed it. I feared dealer washes cause they use the swirly machine. I could tell right away it was machine washed cause the machine never cleans behind the mirror where the a pillar is. So I said go ask ur lot attendants if they hand washed it. He goes to the back and asks. Comes out again saying they hand washed it. I told him to write that down as a gurantee he does so. Afterwords I show him the dashcam video with the date of the car going through the swirly machine. Man was speechless. Service manager comes over says he will buff down the car. Yeah right like I'd trust him.
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      01-17-2014, 07:20 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OrZonE View Post
I usually don't make it a habit of complaining about dealerships, I realize everyone has their own experiences and levels that they consider acceptable. I still want to share my story so that people who didn't realize what dealers actually do to cars are enlightened and others, that visit this or any dealer, know what they're potentially walking into.

It is not really a horror story, so don't raise your hopes up. It is a case of a dealer blatantly lying and simply refusing to address my problem in any acceptable or scientific way, shape or form.

Onto the story. As most of us know our speedometers are optimistic by nature and show us driving a speed higher than we actually are. I am not sure how other cars behave, but my 3 year old car has an 11-15% discrepancy. Meaning that if my speedo is showing 120kmh, I'm actually doing 105-107kmh. To me - this is a problem. I've confirmed this by testing multiple GPS units against the speedometer of my E92, my TL, an A4 and even a ford fiesta (don't ask). TL has been bang on, Fiesta is ~1-2% off, A4 ~3-5% off. I've even connected to my OBD port and looked at my readout. It is always off and considerably.

Armed with this knowledge I go to my dealer. The dealer keeps my car for 2 days. Runs test and comes back saying that they've extensively tested my car by running it side by side with 2 other cars at 3 different speeds (they were explicitly listed) and all cars were synchronized at all times. They've written the same thing on my report and would not listen to anything else. GPS data was deemed inaccurate by them and they didn't have a dyno to confirm my concerns. So I picked up my car and looked at my dashcam footage and the "extensive" testing that was done. This is what I've found:

They took out my car along with another one. Before setting off, the drivers communicated to accelerate to 60kmh as soon as they could with my car behind matching the speed of the car in front. The front car accelerated, my car kept back about 30-50 meters, this went on for about 40 seconds. They then stopped and the driver of my car said "I had somewhere between 60 and 65" the other said "I had 60 even". That was it. No multiple runs. No multiple cars. No multiple speeds. No side by side. They eyeballed it, because GPS units were "too inaccurate". They didn't even bother to get a diagnostic tool to see which speed is reported by the cluster when driving and compare it with the speedometer. I'm not even going to get into HOW the car was driven, suffice it to say that if I had been driving my car like that all the time I would run through multiple tanks a week.

When I called the dealer to confirm exactly how they had tested the vehicle. They basically repeated the same thing as in the report and added that the drivers were communicating the speeds to each other at all times through their phones (bs). The conversation with the manager went along the same lines with him basically stating that nothing like that ever happened and I should get in touch with BMW corporate.

My current aim is twofold. I want to fix this damned speedometer, if my cluster has the correct reading there's no reason my speedo shouldn't. This will likely be an uphill battle, but any advice is appreciated (without voiding my warranty). My other aim is to voice my concerns about dealerships and based on the reaction I will get here perhaps even name this particular one.

Few years back Honda was taken to court for that discrepancy, and lost.
All new cars from Honda are very accurate now and for some people they actually made a recall for that.
It is not right ( by BMW ) to to that, and it is NOT OK either.
With a 11% error by the time you will get to your 80,000 km warranty YOU will be shaven by about (I'm just doing math in my head approx ) 1000 kms.
That could be significant if something goes bad at 81,000 kms

Hopefully my info arms you with an ammunition ( is helpful )
Regards
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      01-17-2014, 01:14 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by myE70 View Post
Few years back Honda was taken to court for that discrepancy, and lost.
All new cars from Honda are very accurate now and for some people they actually made a recall for that.
It is not right ( by BMW ) to to that, and it is NOT OK either.
With a 11% error by the time you will get to your 80,000 km warranty YOU will be shaven by about (I'm just doing math in my head approx ) 1000 kms.
That could be significant if something goes bad at 81,000 kms

Hopefully my info arms you with an ammunition ( is helpful )
Regards
80 000 + 11% = 81 000?

I don't think the correction factor effects the odometer, but I may be wrong.
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      01-17-2014, 02:31 PM   #11
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I agree as well that the correction factor doea not apply to the odometer. Odometer diaplays the accurate mileage. This can be tested as well.
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      01-17-2014, 02:49 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Modded328FTW View Post
I agree as well that the correction factor doea not apply to the odometer. Odometer diaplays the accurate mileage. This can be tested as well.
+1


The odometer is accurate, as it reads of the computers digital speedometer regardless.

Also coding your car to show the digital speedometer won't void any of your warranties etc. Lots of people have done this, its one simple code that some guys can do for you for $20 - $30.

Or you can pay BMW a ton more and they will code it for you. It's not the equivalent of putting on a tune which can in that case void a warranty.


Also when they claimed they did extensive analysis on the issue, why not show them your dashcam footage and tell them that their definition of an extensive analysis in complete bs.

Regardless, I dont think you will get anywhere with this.
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      01-17-2014, 05:04 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Havok_2011 View Post
+1


The odometer is accurate, as it reads of the computers digital speedometer regardless.

...

Also when they claimed they did extensive analysis on the issue, why not show them your dashcam footage and tell them that their definition of an extensive analysis in complete bs.

Regardless, I dont think you will get anywhere with this.

At this time I don't have a reason to suspect that odometer is inaccurate. The speedo is.

The most disturbing thing about all of this is the service manager could not care less about what his employees did. Would not entertain the idea of reviewing the footage and basically told me to go "bother someone else".

They fraudulently billed BMW for work they did not do. They tried to fraud me into believing that work that was supposed to be done was in fact done. As a cherry on top they hammered the hell out of my car about 1 minute after starting it in frigid temperatures. Incidentally this is a company vehicle and my legal sees a big problem with this, so I will keep this thread updated for those curious.
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      01-17-2014, 07:30 PM   #14
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Correct me if I'm wrong
I have been proven wrong before.
Speedo is being calculated by the computer ( ECU call it whatever you want )
the input comes from the transmission output shaft ( sensor will pick up revolutions and computer will translate the info into km/h )
Now I'm not a scientist here but it is still kilometers per hour.
And again correct me if I'm wrong but isn't this the easiest way to get the kilometers on the odometer ?
It has been done like this for years with manual cables one end connected to the trans and the other to the cluster ( I still remember the days ).
It would be somewhat waste of an input if it would be used only to used it for for speedo. Now yes you could use the ABS sensor for that but the problem would arise with having different manufactures making tires ( over all diameter would differ from one to the other ) and as your tires would wear out it would also create error ( don't make me explain )....
I believe that the input for the speedo and the odo is one and the same, unless someone will prove me wrong I stand by it.
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      01-17-2014, 09:04 PM   #15
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Iv actually had this problem before. The dealer after having it for a day gave me a service bullitin saying this percentage is acceptable. I forgot what percentage it was but I'm sure if u ask they can find out. Cause my dealer did.
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      01-18-2014, 09:56 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by myE70 View Post
It would be somewhat waste of an input if it would be used only to used it for for speedo.
My OBD port reading, cruise control reading and speedo reading are all different.

CC and speedo reading are off by an absolute value (don't care about that too much)

OBD reading and speedo reading are off by a relative value, this is why everyone is telling me to code my car for digital speedometer. OEM specs modify the value of the cluster reading prior to it getting to the speedo.

Quote:
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Iv actually had this problem before. The dealer after having it for a day gave me a service bullitin saying this percentage is acceptable. I forgot what percentage it was but I'm sure if u ask they can find out. Cause my dealer did.
The first thing I asked for is something in writing They told me there's nothing official from BMW. This dealership is bad. No knowledge. No professional courtesy extended from management and outright lying.
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      01-23-2014, 09:59 AM   #17
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Thank you for telling us that the BMW dealership has lied to you. I am not at all surprised. Most people will lie to you if it will save them some money/trouble.

The coded digital speedo will show the same as you analogue speedo so that's useless.

To see your actual speed, get the vent gauge from P3cars.com. It takes the speed directly from the wheel so it's accurate. I found when my speedo said I was going 130kph, I was actually doing 121kph.

Which is good to know when the donut shops are closed.

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      01-23-2014, 11:51 AM   #18
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11-15% is pretty high and beyond what I would consider acceptable. I have had two e9x's and checked them both for speedometer accuracy, just for my own knowledge. They both read about 2% high as I expected.
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      01-23-2014, 11:38 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by OrZonE View Post
At this time I don't have a reason to suspect that odometer is inaccurate. The speedo is.

The most disturbing thing about all of this is the service manager could not care less about what his employees did. Would not entertain the idea of reviewing the footage and basically told me to go "bother someone else".

They fraudulently billed BMW for work they did not do. They tried to fraud me into believing that work that was supposed to be done was in fact done. As a cherry on top they hammered the hell out of my car about 1 minute after starting it in frigid temperatures. Incidentally this is a company vehicle and my legal sees a big problem with this, so I will keep this thread updated for those curious.
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      01-24-2014, 12:46 AM   #20
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Thank you for telling us that the BMW dealership has lied to you. I am not at all surprised. Most people will lie to you if it will save them some money/trouble.

The coded digital speedo will show the same as you analogue speedo so that's useless.

To see your actual speed, get the vent gauge from P3cars.com. It takes the speed directly from the wheel so it's accurate. I found when my speedo said I was going 130kph, I was actually doing 121kph.

Which is good to know when the donut shops are closed.
Not true, you can code it to show same as analogue speed or the true speed. Two different types.
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      04-22-2014, 10:12 AM   #21
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UPDATE:

Yes. This is still going on.

To sum up. I have since had numerous email exchanges with the director at Maranello, followed by a couple of meetings.

I was assured that the car is supposed to read a higher value and that I am an important customer and they value my business. I was even offered a "free oil change" (my car is on full warranty). Being the naive idiot that I am, I actually believed that and when trouble struck I had called them expecting exceptional service, and oh boy, did I get it!

I had an issue due to which my car had to get towed to a dealership. After calling Maranello to make sure it is ok, I towed my car there. Once there, the SM took me aside and basically proceeded to tell me that they will not be working on my car as long as I have a dash camera turned on as he doesn't want his mechanics bay recorded. I completely agreed with him, but requested that the camera is turned on when the vehicle is taken on public roads. This went on for about 30-40 minutes with calls made to directors and lawyers of the dealership (none of which I took part in). At the end of which I was informed that they will take the car only if I come back to road test it. To which I agree.

Now this is the "fun" part. I tell the SM "You don't have to make it this difficult" and get a reply back "I will make it as difficult as I can for you". When I picked up my car couple of days later, the SM also informed me that he did me a favour by taking my car in and hinted I would have to pay ~$3.5K if he didn't. This happened recently.

I have since been in touch with BMW Canada, as I think this behaviour is simply unacceptable.

I am not a belligerent or a loud customer, I don't yell, demand or make scenes. I only expect good customer service and my vehicle to be taken care of. None of that happened.

Avoid Maranello like the plague, ladies and gentlemen!
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      04-22-2014, 11:49 AM   #22
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I understand your concerns after reading your post, but really, what is the big deal with the speedometer? Aside from that, Maranello should provide you with greater customer care! What is the purpose behind your dashcam? Do you drive with it on? Just curious...what are you expecting to record?
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