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      08-10-2012, 08:57 AM   #1
R3dnax
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Giac stage 2 race on e85??

Hello,

Did anyone try to run Giac Stage 2 race w/ 93/e85 mix without meth or race gas?
im normally running Giac stage 2, but i do also have the race map..
I want to try and run the stage 2 race map with a 70/30 E85 mix.
would that be insanely stupid?

Thanks for any input in advance.

Last edited by R3dnax; 08-10-2012 at 09:12 AM.
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      08-10-2012, 09:05 AM   #2
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The race map isn't "SUPER" aggressive so you could probably get away with it on a heavy e85 mix. If you have BT tool then log it and see how it looks.
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      08-10-2012, 09:07 AM   #3
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It would not be completely insanely stupid but it would be far from optimal and a bit risky, given the fact that, as we have seen on the forum, the fuel scalar tables need to be modified for optimal operation.

However, Thomas@GIAC did mention to me that they are testing e85 and this may be their next big thing as far as N54 development. Message him for details.
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      08-10-2012, 11:20 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R3dnax View Post
Hello,

Did anyone try to run Giac Stage 2 race w/ 93/e85 mix without meth or race gas?
im normally running Giac stage 2, but i do also have the race map..
I want to try and run the stage 2 race map with a 70/30 E85 mix.
would that be insanely stupid?

Thanks for any input in advance.
While it is not something which we have tested, it has been on the list of things that I am working on. In terms of resistance to knock, there won't be a problem. The Race file is on the conservative side, and timing is not advanced to the point that corrections are not possible. The main issue that could arise is whether fuel trims get out of range. To this point, I have only tested on my S4 (port injection), a GTI (direct injection) and a 997 Turbo (direct injection).

Everything works flawlessly on my car, but I have seen the newer direct injection vehicles have issues with fuel trims triggering cylinder correction factors. This has typically occurred at idle and part throttle. With that being said, multiple GTI customers are running 25% E85 with our Race file, with good results. I believe that this would also be feasible with the N54, but based on what other flash tunes have seen, we would likely need to alter open loop fueling to run higher concentrations.

Feel free to shoot me an email if you wish to talk more about it, or if you would like to go over some logs.
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      08-10-2012, 11:40 AM   #5
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Thomas, do you have any before and after numbers of stock vs the new race file you are working on?
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      08-10-2012, 11:48 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas@GIAC View Post
While it is not something which we have tested, it has been on the list of things that I am working on. In terms of resistance to knock, there won't be a problem. The Race file is on the conservative side, and timing is not advanced to the point that corrections are not possible. The main issue that could arise is whether fuel trims get out of range. To this point, I have only tested on my S4 (port injection), a GTI (direct injection) and a 997 Turbo (direct injection).

Everything works flawlessly on my car, but I have seen the newer direct injection vehicles have issues with fuel trims triggering cylinder correction factors. This has typically occurred at idle and part throttle. With that being said, multiple GTI customers are running 25% E85 with our Race file, with good results. I believe that this would also be feasible with the N54, but based on what other flash tunes have seen, we would likely need to alter open loop fueling to run higher concentrations.

Feel free to shoot me an email if you wish to talk more about it, or if you would like to go over some logs.
Altering the open loop fueling table isn't going to help with fueling. The DME only uses OL in situations where it isn't receiving signal(or it is an implausible signal) from a vital sensor(like an O2 sensor) and enters OL to run on assumed values in order to run in a sort of limp mode.

You'll need a means to increase total volume of flow, like Cobb has done with the fuel scalar/multiplier.
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      08-10-2012, 11:57 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jazze90 View Post
Thomas, do you have any before and after numbers of stock vs the new race file you are working on?
Not until the final revision is complete. I hope to have some updates very soon!
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      08-10-2012, 11:58 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cloud_connected View Post
Altering the open loop fueling table isn't going to help with fueling.
You sure about that?
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      08-10-2012, 12:10 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas@GIAC View Post
While it is not something which we have tested, it has been on the list of things that I am working on. In terms of resistance to knock, there won't be a problem. The Race file is on the conservative side, and timing is not advanced to the point that corrections are not possible. The main issue that could arise is whether fuel trims get out of range. To this point, I have only tested on my S4 (port injection), a GTI (direct injection) and a 997 Turbo (direct injection).

Everything works flawlessly on my car, but I have seen the newer direct injection vehicles have issues with fuel trims triggering cylinder correction factors. This has typically occurred at idle and part throttle. With that being said, multiple GTI customers are running 25% E85 with our Race file, with good results. I believe that this would also be feasible with the N54, but based on what other flash tunes have seen, we would likely need to alter open loop fueling to run higher concentrations.

Feel free to shoot me an email if you wish to talk more about it, or if you would like to go over some logs.
Guess im going to order a BT tool to start doing some logs.. and then shoot you some logs to look at
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      08-10-2012, 12:13 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R3dnax View Post
Guess im going to order a BT tool to start doing some logs.. and then shoot you some logs to look at
Awesome, I look forward to looking over them!
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      08-10-2012, 12:19 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas@GIAC View Post
You sure about that?
When operating normally the DME is always in closed loop. It may be possible that the closed loop tables are the OL tables(a base in his situation)+ additional fueling(STFT/LTFT.) In that case then altering the OL tables would help.
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      08-18-2012, 07:15 AM   #12
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Found an elm327 that i had laying around, would i be able to logg what i need to look at with this? tried downloading PCMSCAN and connected to the car fine.. did a logg but it doesnt really show much info.. not that i know what im looking at.. :/ any tips for a program to use? or what parameters to logg? any help would be appreciated.
or should i just buy a bt-tool right away?
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      08-18-2012, 09:28 AM   #13
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Kinda related, but I threw lambda codes and pump plausibility codes running E85 on a map that wasn't designed for it.
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      08-26-2012, 04:09 PM   #14
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How you guys doing with giac stage 2 race map and E85.... is it working well?

Is the boost pressure with stage 2 16,5 psi... and with race map 18 psi?
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      08-27-2012, 03:07 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sjobusen View Post
How you guys doing with giac stage 2 race map and E85.... is it working well?

Is the boost pressure with stage 2 16,5 psi... and with race map 18 psi?
from what i know the race map has same boost just higher timings.
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      08-27-2012, 02:21 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sjobusen View Post
How you guys doing with giac stage 2 race map and E85.... is it working well?

Is the boost pressure with stage 2 16,5 psi... and with race map 18 psi?
The current Stage 2 will see 16-17 psi, depending on ambient conditions. Enrita is correct, the difference between Pump and Race at this stage would be timing.
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      09-14-2012, 01:07 PM   #17
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How is it going? When are any e85 mix map comming from Giac? I want it now!!!!
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      09-14-2012, 01:18 PM   #18
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I run 50/50 91/e85 with GIAC race at the moment and it is good. Would like it to be a little more aggressive. Might try something different until then or something......
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      10-30-2012, 11:23 PM   #19
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just curious how reliable you thought the GIAC stage 2+ was running the e85 mix given that it wasnt designed for it?

Also any time frame for an e85 map? I will be moving down to Atlanta in June so it may swing my choice of tune if its out by then..
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