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      11-25-2012, 02:28 AM   #221
eriktufa
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Understand... meaning that all those mods don't actually make much difference I guess since when you get more mods, you will use new map but I'm impressed that the power doesn't drop in Advan's car.

I might need custom tuning now or intake.
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      11-25-2012, 03:55 AM   #222
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Originally Posted by DR-JEKL View Post


So now its time to get those AR design DP's in, AFE intake & Active Autowerke CP & BOV also!
Maybe its a matter of it only just being installed and not having enough time to properly adapt but that should not be boosting to 15.5psi on a conservative stage 0 map. I am far from an expert on these matters but I would expect at least 245rwkw from a 'tune only' 335i on that dyno.

Before you get any further work done to your car, I would get Peter to re-dyno your car in a few weeks to see if it has stabilized.

Also, mileage shouldnt have that much of an impact on performance, considering that it would have been serviced by even BMWs minimal standards. If it was 200,000kms, yes.

Last edited by Drawn05; 11-25-2012 at 04:33 AM.
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      11-25-2012, 05:21 AM   #223
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Originally Posted by eriktufa View Post
Understand... meaning that all those mods don't actually make much difference I guess since when you get more mods, you will use new map but I'm impressed that the power doesn't drop in Advan's car.

I might need custom tuning now or intake.
Peter's car has apparently done >1000 kays on the dyno alone, so it has an extremely 'developed' tune so to speak.

Having said that, his map had been uploaded onto another guys 335i with a procede (he shall remain anon unless he wants to be publicised) with bms intakes and it pulled less than my car...
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      11-25-2012, 05:27 AM   #224
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Originally Posted by Drawn05 View Post
Maybe its a matter of it only just being installed and not having enough time to properly adapt but that should not be boosting to 15.5psi on a conservative stage 0 map. I am far from an expert on these matters but I would expect at least 245rwkw from a 'tune only' 335i on that dyno.

Before you get any further work done to your car, I would get Peter to re-dyno your car in a few weeks to see if it has stabilized.

Also, mileage shouldnt have that much of an impact on performance, considering that it would have been serviced by even BMWs minimal standards. If it was 200,000kms, yes.
Hmm yeah I hadn't thought of that, but Adrian and Pete didnt mention this could be a cause. I do know the car has new plugs, air filter and lubricants 2k kays ago so it cant be any of these items.

No-one pulled 240kw that i seen with just a tune. There was one jb4 with tune only that pulled around 210 by memory before the hpfp was causing havoc.

A 335i with a jb4, afe intake & AR DP's just pulled 240 though (it also suffered from power dropping off....)
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      11-25-2012, 06:27 AM   #225
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Originally Posted by DR-JEKL View Post
Hmm yeah I hadn't thought of that, but Adrian and Pete didnt mention this could be a cause. I do know the car has new plugs, air filter and lubricants 2k kays ago so it cant be any of these items.

No-one pulled 240kw that i seen with just a tune. There was one jb4 with tune only that pulled around 210 by memory before the hpfp was causing havoc.

A 335i with a jb4, afe intake & AR DP's just pulled 240 though (it also suffered from power dropping off....)
As I said, I am not an expert but that boost curve is not right. You might have made good power down low, but peak power would have been greatly reduced by boosting so high so early.
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      11-25-2012, 05:31 PM   #226
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Hi Guys,

That is perfectly normal. I am not sure how much you know about the way turbos and surtrounding mods work, but on a setup that has minimal mods and is flow limitted, it will still take high boost very efficienctly at low RPM. THis is because the turbo is not flowing anywhere near its limits. Flow limits are always reached at high RPM. It is then that the efficiency will take a hit if you run too much boost. So on our stage 0 maps, we run a fair bit of boost down low to give good torque (as lots of people like to compare torque output on the dyno), and then restrict boost up high as the mods will limit flow and we don't want to push the turbo to inefficiency.

This result is a great result. Max power of 221 kW ATW with only 13.5psi. About 35-40kW more than stock. Stick on some decat down pipes and a stage 2 map to run about 15psi up top, and power should climb to the 240-250kW ATW range.

Cheers,

Adrian
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      11-25-2012, 07:11 PM   #227
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Originally Posted by adrian@vishnu View Post
Hi Guys,

That is perfectly normal. I am not sure how much you know about the way turbos and surtrounding mods work, but on a setup that has minimal mods and is flow limitted, it will still take high boost very efficienctly at low RPM. THis is because the turbo is not flowing anywhere near its limits. Flow limits are always reached at high RPM. It is then that the efficiency will take a hit if you run too much boost. So on our stage 0 maps, we run a fair bit of boost down low to give good torque (as lots of people like to compare torque output on the dyno), and then restrict boost up high as the mods will limit flow and we don't want to push the turbo to inefficiency.

This result is a great result. Max power of 221 kW ATW with only 13.5psi. About 35-40kW more than stock. Stick on some decat down pipes and a stage 2 map to run about 15psi up top, and power should climb to the 240-250kW ATW range.

Cheers,

Adrian
Well its your tune, so I wont argue with you. Maybe its the way it is scaled but it looked as though the power was peaking at 4500rpm?
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      11-25-2012, 07:32 PM   #228
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Is should be peaking later than that. I have not tried to work out the RPM. I don't know what gear the run was in etc.

I was just commenting on the boost curve. My thoughts are that running 15-16psi boost is not recommended at high RPM, but at lower RPM where turbo efficiency is still good, an otherwise stock engine is quite happy to take that boost level. At low RPM there is really no difference between a FBO car and a stock car. All the parts on a FBO car that increase flow only really start to offer benefit at high RPM where the flow is pushing the limits of the stock parts.

It could be that the power is dropping off early. The tune was installed only a short time before the dyno run, and may have been too aggressive on timing and had a timing dropout at high RPM. With some time to learn that would improve. I ahve certainly not had persistent issues with low top end power in my dyno tuning with the Procede. Usually power peak is 5500-6000 depending on mods/boost. Power then drops off after that, and how quick it drops off depends on mods. Stock intake and DPs will make it drop off quite quickly.
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      11-25-2012, 08:31 PM   #229
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Thanks for your comments Adrian!

Well I would have assumed that supporting mods would have helped also, but Ian's car has the AFe intake & AR DP's and this is his result:



Admittedly there is a power increase, but once again the power drops off.

Then Pete thought something weird was going on with the dyno so he wacked his car up and proved it wasn't the dyno?



TBH I'm not concerned at all, as the power drops off at 150km/h and its very rare I will be reaching those speeds out on the public roads anyhow... I initially first thought perhaps the tiny turbos were just running out of puff at high speeds but Petes car proved that theory wrong... Perhaps running a FMIC is what helps in this scenario?

One question I forgot to ask you, in MT applications the procede features states you flat foot shift accelerator fully depressed when changing gears? also may I ask what is a stage 0 Map (I'm guessing you're referring to the default base map 2?)

Last edited by DR-JEKL; 11-26-2012 at 12:42 AM.
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      11-25-2012, 09:03 PM   #230
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http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=673763

These are the proceed boost curves between the various stages (0-3). Admittedly, I should have looked at this first before commenting as the stage 0 curve is pretty much what you got, albeit I didnt think going over ~13psi would have occured.

I was basing my opinion on my own car reaching 243rwkw on a mainline dyno (reads about 20rwkw less than a dyno dynamics) with only rev2 7-29 maps and mid-pipes. The boost curve on that was identical to the aqua line in the 7-29 graph on the link, which is what I assumed yours should have looked like. But the stage 0 is weighted far more heavily in the lower rpms as Adrian said.
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      11-25-2012, 09:09 PM   #231
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That graph has something not right. THe fact he power went down and then back up is not right. Sometimes it can be when an Auto changes gears. If it is not a gear change, then it is a big timing frop out, or some other issue. Power curves should not normally look like that. I was not there for the run and no nothing about the car, so I can't say anything other than that the power curve does not look right.

Your graph does drop off more steeply than I would expect, but it is hard to come to conclusions without knowing the RPM. I presume Peter was revving close to redline, so the 186kph is around 6500 or so. THat makes your max power around 5250, which is a little early. As state, I normally expect around 5500-6000. Since this was probably the first time your engine had ever seen that higher boost at that higher RPM, I would say with some learning it will clean up.

The big thing for power on N54s is the DPs. FMIX is not as effective as DPs. I think the ideal bang for buck setup for an N54 is tune (procede!!) + DPs + DCI. Good for 240-250kW ATW end getting much more than that means alot more $$$. After that, add meth for 270-280.

Flat Shift requires some extra wiring to be added that is included in later model Procede harnesses, but yours did not have it. Also, I have the 10-9 Stage 0 MT map in your car.

Cheers,

Adrian
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      11-25-2012, 09:12 PM   #232
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drawn05 View Post
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=673763

These are the proceed boost curves between the various stages (0-3). Admittedly, I should have looked at this first before commenting as the stage 0 curve is pretty much what you got, albeit I didnt think going over ~13psi would have occured.

I was basing my opinion on my own car reaching 243rwkw on a mainline dyno (reads about 20rwkw less than a dyno dynamics) with only rev2 7-29 maps and mid-pipes. The boost curve on that was identical to the aqua line in the 7-29 graph on the link, which is what I assumed yours should have looked like. But the stage 0 is weighted far more heavily in the lower rpms as Adrian said.
Don't assume that a mainline always reads lower. I can show you a mainline and a dyno dynamics where the DD reads 20kW lower than the Mainline. Like all dynos, the results are difficult to compare unless same dyno and same day. Even then, the wheels/tyres can make a difference of 20kW.
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      11-26-2012, 01:55 AM   #233
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Shane in post 229 am I reading right that Pete's 335 did 239 atw?

I thought he did higher earlier.

My 135i with Procede & aFe intake did 225 atw.
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      11-26-2012, 01:59 AM   #234
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Shane in post 229 am I reading right that Pete's 335 did 239 atw?

I thought he did higher earlier.

My 135i with Procede & aFe intake did 225 atw.
Yep, only 3 odd more than mine.
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      11-26-2012, 02:33 AM   #235
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I just wanted to chime in here to say that this thread has been of huge interest to me. I have enjoyed reading about the progress of your car and have to say that it has been great food for thought for mine. Quite a few of the mods you have done or propose to carry out were on my list - it's great to see they have turned out well for you. I have been impressed with the way you have gone about adding to an already great car .

Cheers,
Jon
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      11-26-2012, 03:29 AM   #236
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Originally Posted by bmroxm5 View Post
Shane in post 229 am I reading right that Pete's 335 did 239 atw?

I thought he did higher earlier.

My 135i with Procede & aFe intake did 225 atw.
As Ian stated that's correct, but the guys did state the car hadn't been driven in quite a while (unsure if this has any effect on the end result though with a car with just a moderate tune)
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      11-26-2012, 03:32 AM   #237
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I just wanted to chime in here to say that this thread has been of huge interest to me. I have enjoyed reading about the progress of your car and have to say that it has been great food for thought for mine. Quite a few of the mods you have done or propose to carry out were on my list - it's great to see they have turned out well for you. I have been impressed with the way you have gone about adding to an already great car .

Cheers,
Jon
Gday Jon

Glad to hear that my build thread has been giving some fellow owners some ideas and feedback on certain products. Hopefully this build thread gives something back to the community that provides so much in source of info and advice.

It would be great to see an intro and build thread from you also
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      11-26-2012, 04:39 AM   #238
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So the difference between your car (ECU + Exhaust) and Advan's car (ECU + AFE dual cone + AR DP + ER charge pipe with Tile BOV) is 18 kw plus the fact that the power stays flat all the way to redline?
Hi there
My car at the dyno day had the AFE duel cone system, Cobb and the charge pipe. all other parts are stock. But even my power was down as it has made close to 260kw in the past i did check the dyno cell temp when my car was running and it was 36deg. But thats fine its all abut the power on the day good or bad .
It will give every one somthing to shoot for at our next Dyno Day end of February
I will fit up my AR dumps for next time
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      11-26-2012, 05:30 AM   #239
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I will definitely be at the next dyno day and hopefully my DP's CP & AFE intake will be installed prior!

I would love an exhaust note and dyno graph like ZUZU's 1M



(I believe he has a cobb, AFE, ETS FMIC & the meisterschaft exhaust)

http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showt...606023&page=33
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      11-29-2012, 07:21 PM   #240
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Well i normally drive the calais sportswagon to work most days, but this week the 335i has ventured out of the garage every day. I'm loving the newfound power and taking the entry/exit ramps is damn addictive and has been resulting in a few 1st 2nd gear WOT's.

My plan in the new year is to get my mate to install and paint a M3 rep front bar, so in the meantime I have been umming and ahhing over a set of M3 mirrors. Decided to bite the bullet and buy a set of M3 mirrors with cf mirror caps:

http://www.trademotion.com/partlocat...catalogid=4462

http://www.turnermotorsport.com/p-14...or-covers.aspx

What they shall look like installed:



With it being Friday I'm hoping to install my chargepipe and AFE intake this weekend also, but with the high temperatures predicted I may end up at the beach instead!
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      11-29-2012, 07:24 PM   #241
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you should get the cf vented bonnet as well, which front bar are you getting
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      11-29-2012, 07:59 PM   #242
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you should get the cf vented bonnet as well, which front bar are you getting
Jason is going to hook me up with his M3 rep bar, and hopefully a kerscher cf chin spoiler/ lip.

Hmm undecided about the bonnet, might be a bit too much M3 wannabe happening (luckily I didn't install the m3 rims )
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