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      08-29-2012, 05:42 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RupertPupkin View Post
You would then need to lock open the valvetronic like this dude did and have some way to tune out the normal valvetronic and use the physical new
ITBs. I think youd still require the whole ecu swap and everything.
you DEFINITELY need a new ECU, you have no way of seeing the airflow otherwise


this guy appraently already had an M800 from previous cars, so it wasn't a huge extra expense lol

you'd then run into the issue that ITB's are built to flow at high RPM's for the most part, and the stock cam profile MAY not support that, and since you've already dropped the money on an ECU and ITB's (and head work to get the ITB's to line up and flow perfectly).. may as well get cams since it's barely any more
oh.. look at that price >_<

locking valvetronic to max lift is actually a physical metal plate in place. it's probably the easiest part from what i can research.
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      08-30-2012, 03:04 PM   #24
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locking valvetronic to max lift is actually a physical metal plate in place. it's probably the easiest part from what i can research.
Should this even be done on stock ECU?
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      08-30-2012, 03:19 PM   #25
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Should this even be done on stock ECU?
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      08-30-2012, 06:14 PM   #26
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While I agree this is pretty cool to see, the $15k price tag just isn't feasible financially. The only way I could see it working out was if you yourself owned a machine shop and had proper knowledge of how to build the car.
$5k for the ECU
$3k for the PDM
$1k for the e36 throttle body
$1k for the custom intake manifold
$1k minimum for the custom race headers
$1k for the lightened flywheel
$500 for misc motor parts
$2.5k+ for custom cams

Not even mentioning the amount of work on the suspension, wheels, tires, and race interior. I'd rather buy another car for racing...Ex:e36 m3, coilovers, wheels, tires and a small amount of motor work <$15k and IMO a better car.
If you're building a race car, then basic logic really goes out the window period. I just came back from NJMP and saw Turner's 328i with more money put into. Then there's that other fellow on e90post in the process of transplanting a Z4 n52 motor in his 328i as well. End of day, if there's a race group for these cars why not? It's not like anyone entering this sport does it because it's cheap.

Building an e30/36 race car seems to be the obvious answer now but it wasn't back then while still in production. It was only a matter of time folks start moving into e90 territory. And in 5 years when the F-series reaches its end, someone may do the same with that (even though an e46 would be so much cheaper to build). And I'm sure the majority of the reason behind choosing the n52 over the n54/55 is just based on club racing rules but its longevity and reliability are probably huge pluses as well.
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      08-30-2012, 09:51 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by andrey_gta View Post
Should this even be done on stock ECU?
you can get some tunes that electronically lock to max lift, so it's possible kinda - the big thing is.. you COULD set the new ECU up for valvetronic... or you could not and just have it set to max power lol. the stock ECU *CAN* already control it, so the stock ECU can electronically max it out with the right setting.


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If you're building a race car, then basic logic really goes out the window period. I just came back from NJMP and saw Turner's 328i with more money put into. Then there's that other fellow on e90post in the process of transplanting a Z4 n52 motor in his 328i as well. End of day, if there's a race group for these cars why not? It's not like anyone entering this sport does it because it's cheap.

Building an e30/36 race car seems to be the obvious answer now but it wasn't back then while still in production. It was only a matter of time folks start moving into e90 territory. And in 5 years when the F-series reaches its end, someone may do the same with that (even though an e46 would be so much cheaper to build). And I'm sure the majority of the reason behind choosing the n52 over the n54/55 is just based on club racing rules but its longevity and reliability are probably huge pluses as well.

would probably be cheaper just to do the 3-stage mani swap and tune... an N52 and ECU etc. can't be cheaper than a couple of grand

yeah an E36 can be made stupid fast for little money, tons of aero and suspension mods, turbo/sc kits/engine swaps

but it's not bad to make these cars quick, full M3 suspension, coilovers... and for 128's, tune and 3 stage, for all N52's... catless exhaust/headers and it's 300hp for plenty of straight line for not too much $ .. 300hp isn't slow by any stretch of the imagination.. and amazing handling.
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      08-30-2012, 10:47 PM   #28
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would probably be cheaper just to do the 3-stage mani swap and tune... an N52 and ECU etc. can't be cheaper than a couple of grand

yeah an E36 can be made stupid fast for little money, tons of aero and suspension mods, turbo/sc kits/engine swaps

but it's not bad to make these cars quick, full M3 suspension, coilovers... and for 128's, tune and 3 stage, for all N52's... catless exhaust/headers and it's 300hp for plenty of straight line for not too much $ .. 300hp isn't slow by any stretch of the imagination.. and amazing handling.
I think in the case of the Z4 motor, the 328i was wrecked/damaged so they needed a new motor anyway.

And I agree on the n52, that's pretty much the direction I'm going with my car minus the headers. So far I have full suspension, track pads, minor weight savings and will have the AA tune shortly but right now I have no problem keeping up with tuned 335's on a road course.
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      08-30-2012, 11:14 PM   #29
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I think in the case of the Z4 motor, the 328i was wrecked/damaged so they needed a new motor anyway.

And I agree on the n52, that's pretty much the direction I'm going with my car minus the headers. So far I have full suspension, track pads, minor weight savings and will have the AA tune shortly but right now I have no problem keeping up with tuned 335's on a road course.
You're much lighter than my 325i and way lighter than a 335i. I bet you dont have any issues keeping up on the track. Plus the z4 has lower drivetrain loss for some reason so you're getting more power down than most of us

Why no headers? 15-20 hp just waiting there...
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      08-30-2012, 11:45 PM   #30
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I think in the case of the Z4 motor, the 328i was wrecked/damaged so they needed a new motor anyway.

And I agree on the n52, that's pretty much the direction I'm going with my car minus the headers. So far I have full suspension, track pads, minor weight savings and will have the AA tune shortly but right now I have no problem keeping up with tuned 335's on a road course.
3ers are a LOT more boat-like that Z4/1ers
how do you fare against 1ers?
.. quick google says a Z4 has similar power and weight to the respective 1 series equivalents (135 and 130 for N54 and N52) so pretty similar i'd guess

1415kg weight and same power outputs... a stock N52 Z4 or 130i should keep up with a 335i without issue in a straight line let alone around a corner (re: leave in dust), the 335i's stock really aren't that impresive, it's the tune and other mods that gets you haha.
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      08-30-2012, 11:49 PM   #31
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Great thread for a new guy entertaining the possibilities of the N52.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DSC_OFF View Post
Building an e30/36 race car seems to be the obvious answer now but it wasn't back then while still in production. It was only a matter of time folks start moving into e90 territory. And in 5 years when the F-series reaches its end, someone may do the same with that (even though an e46 would be so much cheaper to build). And I'm sure the majority of the reason behind choosing the n52 over the n54/55 is just based on club racing rules but its longevity and reliability are probably huge pluses as well.
This is a great insight! In a few years the N52 will be revered as the last great NA inline 6. It is easy to mod and will stand the test of time. DSC, this could come to pass faster than we think. Prices of used 07/08 328's will be below $20K once their warranty expires. Cheap enough to buy and play with.
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      08-30-2012, 11:57 PM   #32
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You're much lighter than my 325i and way lighter than a 335i. I bet you dont have any issues keeping up on the track. Plus the z4 has lower drivetrain loss for some reason so you're getting more power down than most of us

Why no headers? 15-20 hp just waiting there...
Keep in mind 335i's rarely show up stock to the track so they also easily have +100hp than me, and gobs more torque. But your point is well taken, I definitely try to carry more momentum through the turns and hence why I chose to focus on braking/suspension upgrades.

No headers simply b/c there isn't an affordable set available yet. And I know that 15-20hp is not what's keeping me back from shaving my times. I still have a lot to improve on the driver mod side =)


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3ers are a LOT more boat-like that Z4/1ers
how do you fare against 1ers?
.. quick google says a Z4 has similar power and weight to the respective 1 series equivalents (135 and 130 for N54 and N52) so pretty similar i'd guess

1415kg weight and same power outputs... a stock N52 Z4 or 130i should keep up with a 335i without issue in a straight line let alone around a corner (re: leave in dust), the 335i's stock really aren't that impresive, it's the tune and other mods that gets you haha.
See above, stock for stock, power to weight is comparable but again, I've yet to meet anyone who doesn't run any maps on the track lol.


Vid from past weekend at NJMP, hit the 1:20 mark - not too shabby for a stock n52 on street tires

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      08-31-2012, 12:07 AM   #33
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Damn. Someone beat me to the punch I was planning to do some sort of an ITB set up with an AEM ecu and gasoline sprayers to cool air stealing ideas from a eg hatch from nyce1s but still, original enough to break the mold !
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      08-31-2012, 03:37 AM   #34
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny D View Post
You're much lighter than my 325i and way lighter than a 335i. I bet you dont have any issues keeping up on the track. Plus the z4 has lower drivetrain loss for some reason so you're getting more power down than most of us

Why no headers? 15-20 hp just waiting there...
Keep in mind 335i's rarely show up stock to the track so they also easily have +100hp than me, and gobs more torque. But your point is well taken, I definitely try to carry more momentum through the turns and hence why I chose to focus on braking/suspension upgrades.

No headers simply b/c there isn't an affordable set available yet. And I know that 15-20hp is not what's keeping me back from shaving my times. I still have a lot to improve on the driver mod side =)


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Originally Posted by flinchy View Post
3ers are a LOT more boat-like that Z4/1ers
how do you fare against 1ers?
.. quick google says a Z4 has similar power and weight to the respective 1 series equivalents (135 and 130 for N54 and N52) so pretty similar i'd guess

1415kg weight and same power outputs... a stock N52 Z4 or 130i should keep up with a 335i without issue in a straight line let alone around a corner (re: leave in dust), the 335i's stock really aren't that impresive, it's the tune and other mods that gets you haha.
See above, stock for stock, power to weight is comparable but again, I've yet to meet anyone who doesn't run any maps on the track lol.


Vid from past weekend at NJMP, hit the 1:20 mark - not too shabby for a stock n52 on street tires

No cheap headers? Mmw

$1000 is CHEAP for headers, there will never ever ever be headers for less than that for our engine.. At least GOOD ones

Even good headers for a b16 civic will set you back well over a grand for some genuine ones, probably $500 for some replicas (no rnd)
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      08-31-2012, 05:41 AM   #35
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No cheap headers? Mmw

$1000 is CHEAP for headers, there will never ever ever be headers for less than that for our engine.. At least GOOD ones

Even good headers for a b16 civic will set you back well over a grand for some genuine ones, probably $500 for some replicas (no rnd)
I don't recall saying cheap, rather affordable and the only confirmed set that will fit my car is Supersprint. MWW headers may or may not fit my car but definitely don't want to be the guinea pig on this one.
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      08-31-2012, 06:19 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by DSC_OFF View Post
I don't recall saying cheap, rather affordable and the only confirmed set that will fit my car is Supersprint. MWW headers may or may not fit my car but definitely don't want to be the guinea pig on this one.
I can find ot for you (possibly) gimme like 20 lol
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      08-31-2012, 08:31 AM   #37
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BTW Flinchy, reread your earlier post, don't agree that a Z4 or 130i would keep up with a 335i in straight line. Whether you want to bench magazine race, 0-60 or 1/4, there's just no way. Numbers don't lie but even my personal experience street and track confirm the n54's just pull - and yes I'm talking stock. But in the corners, I do agree we'd find our way faster =)
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      08-31-2012, 10:56 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flinchy View Post
3ers are a LOT more boat-like that Z4/1ers
how do you fare against 1ers?
.. quick google says a Z4 has similar power and weight to the respective 1 series equivalents (135 and 130 for N54 and N52) so pretty similar i'd guess

1415kg weight and same power outputs... a stock N52 Z4 or 130i should keep up with a 335i without issue in a straight line let alone around a corner (re: leave in dust), the 335i's stock really aren't that impresive, it's the tune and other mods that gets you haha.
The z4 3.0si vs 130i

z4 is over 200lbs lighter, handles just as well, and has the same power output. Given the option of the two in a 6mt for a track car or fun car...The z4 is a no brainer.
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      08-31-2012, 05:37 PM   #39
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This is interesting. The head seems to be the bottle neck in the N52. This setup is pretty extreme but maybe looking at what components he changed might lead to big power gains. Maybe not 335hp but something similar. Looks as though cams could be useful. I need to resurface (maybe rebuild) my head so it might be something to look in to.
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      11-11-2012, 06:39 PM   #40
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Hi, I just found this thread on my car! Sorry for being a bit silent and sorry to Flinchy if I've not replied, I don't think I got your message?

Anyway this is a race car built from a BMW Motorsport Shell. A full rewire was needed to remove the can-bus system, the M800 and PDM were new, not from another car..

Since the photo was taken, I've had larger headers fitted which flattened the torque curve but dropped the top end power slightly. I also had a big end failure at the final race in October so a new engine is being built with the valvetronic deleted. This is still a work in progress....

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      11-14-2012, 05:02 PM   #41
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For all that money I would just put in a LS7 and done.
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      11-14-2012, 05:18 PM   #42
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For all that money I would just put in a LS7 and done.
you dont even need that you can get a used 6.0 iron block for 1200 bux. turn the exhaust manifolds forward and slap on a t76gts


that would make twice the power for half the cost. or sh!t, just run it NA with headers and a cam.
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      11-14-2012, 09:47 PM   #43
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It would require a lot more mioney to drop an LS into the car. especially if you can't fab most of the stuff yourself. First one to drop an LS into an e90 will be my hero.
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      11-14-2012, 10:46 PM   #44
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Well, isnt the engine bay same size as a M3? Im sure a small block chevy will fit like a glove in there.
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