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      09-28-2012, 09:30 AM   #67
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You will have to be very careful with morels not to overfeed.

That amps seems pretty decent for its size and what it can do.

I would look for 6 channel amp to add rears TBH into whole equation.

You are working on a great sound system but ignoring your rears.

Decision is yours as I can see in few months you will be looking for 6 channle amplifier or adding another one to address your rears (speaking from personal experience).
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      09-28-2012, 09:48 AM   #68
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Thanks Sam2,

But with the MS-8 and the HU, wouldn't I be able to power the rears through them? What is the advantage of powering the rears with an amp over MS-8 / HU to power them.. noob question huh.
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      09-28-2012, 10:34 AM   #69
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Sup folks,

Re: front stage amp to power the Morel HO and Jehnert HE200s, I've managed to find a retailer selling a Hertz HDP4 (4 chn) Amp for 250.. usually retails at 450-500. I've seen these in flesh and they are what you call bloody good and tiny! LOL. Just wondering if I can get anything else but not as expensive?

This Hertz HDP4 is 150w @ 4 ohms.. and the Morels need 100w @ 4 ohms.. is this the sort of amp I'd need to be looking at??

If not, could you folks recommend other decent, IDEALLY < 200 mark Amps? Happy to consider decent 2nd hand ones too.

Sam
That looks like a great little amp. Good reviews, good power, extremely small and efficient. Also VERY flexible with crossovers (you can run mids and tweeters active). I'd jump on that in a heartbeat!
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      09-28-2012, 10:42 AM   #70
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Thanks Kai,

More reassured now

What about a decent 6 chan amp as an alternative, one which is compact and able to fit into the left side compartment of the boot (directly opposite to where the battery is in the right side)
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      09-28-2012, 10:43 AM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AWBimmer View Post
Thanks Sam2,


But with the MS-8 and the HU, wouldn't I be able to power the rears through them? What is the advantage of powering the rears with an amp over MS-8 / HU to power them.. noob question huh.
You can easily power rears with MS-8 but it effectively limits the power you end up putting on the front stage because the MS-8 gets its best results when the various channel sweeps are close in dB
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      09-28-2012, 10:45 AM   #72
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The Morels will easily handle 150W no problem. They are power hungry speakers.
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      09-28-2012, 10:45 AM   #73
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Originally Posted by makkan00 View Post
recommended to quiksr20 to run ms-8 with efficient front speakers (dls r4) and no extra power, except for midbass and sub....his install is still in the works but I expect the final result to be great


Looking forward to results of this.

Where can I find thread on this?
Search for threads by quiksr20? :
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      09-28-2012, 10:47 AM   #74
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Taibanl: If he can't amp the rears, can't he just get really efficient rears to help, like you did with those Kappas?
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      09-28-2012, 11:21 AM   #75
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Taibanl: If he can't amp the rears, can't he just get really efficient rears to help, like you did with those Kappas?
absolutely...

DLS424 probably the MOST efficient option of which I am aware, followed by Kappas, then L7 orRainbows
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      09-28-2012, 11:23 AM   #76
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Silly Q but won't getting these really efficient rears require more power, i.e. An Amp? Or will the MS-8 be able to handle them..?
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      09-28-2012, 11:29 AM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AWBimmer View Post
Silly Q but won't getting these really efficient rears require more power, i.e. An Amp? Or will the MS-8 be able to handle them..?
Yes! that's a silly Q!

the point of a more EFFICIENT driver is to get more SPL from a given amount of power (i.e. deck or MS-8 power)
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      09-28-2012, 11:30 AM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AWBimmer
Silly Q but won't getting these really efficient rears require more power, i.e. An Amp? Or will the MS-8 be able to handle them..?
Actually its the opposite, just means the speaker is more efficient, i.e. less energy lost to heat etc. So in theory for a certain SPL a speaker thats more efficient will require less watts for that SPL compared to another speaker thats less efficient.

You can work out estimates of what you'd need to match your amped fronts. I'd say a highly efficient 2ohm coaxial. 2 ohm as i think the ms-8 has a higher power rating for 2 ohms.

Or if you decide to get a 6 channel amp that would work too.
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      09-28-2012, 11:31 AM   #79
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Beat me to it taibanl!
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      09-28-2012, 11:45 AM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mob17 View Post
You can work out estimates of what you'd need to match your amped fronts. I'd say a highly efficient 2ohm coaxial. 2 ohm as i think the ms-8 has a higher power rating for 2 ohms.
Due to less impedance, the MS-8 will put roughly 2x as many WATTS into a 2 ohm driver than a 4 ohm driver....but its the same voltage (unlike for example the JL HD series). So for MS-8 a 94dB/w/m speaker (97dB/2.83v/m @ 4 ohms) like the DLS424 will be louder than say the Kappa 42.9i (2.83V @1m)- 93 dB; even though the MS-8 will be able to deliver more watts to the latter.
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      09-28-2012, 12:19 PM   #81
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Oh yes i remember now with the ms-8 all that matters is the efficiency rating @ 2.83V.
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      09-28-2012, 12:50 PM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AWBimmer View Post
Thanks Kai,

More reassured now

What about a decent 6 chan amp as an alternative, one which is compact and able to fit into the left side compartment of the boot (directly opposite to where the battery is in the right side)
I've never been a fan of 6-ch amps because we do not have 6 channels with identical power requirements. I am a fan of headroom however, and with 75W per channel (or less), you just don't have enough power for transients and demanding listening passages.

The Morels definitely will be choked by 75W, I can guarantee you that much. The Jehnerts, they can probably handle 100 - 150W with the right highpass filter (even though I would be very careful with these), and the sides/rears they need only about 50W max (in Logic7).

So I would go with the headroom on the channels that count. For the rest of the system, you always have the option to buy a 5-channel amp later on, to amp the center, the sides/rears, and the sub. Something like this: http://www.pasmag.com/car-audio/repo...dp5-amplifier-

Edit: I bought my HD amps used and for about half the price of new ones, and I never looked back. I started with the 600/4 and jumped on an offer I couldn't refuse. The 900/5 came later, and was a similar deal. I cannot imagine having gone the route of purchasing different (new) amps at the same cost as these used ones, and now being stuck with too little power, and less SQ. I would always be wondering...what if?! The point is, you seem to be looking at a great deal on a great, top-of the line amp (certainly comparable to my HD600/4), so don't blink man - I wouldn't!
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Last edited by kaigoss69; 09-28-2012 at 12:58 PM.
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      09-28-2012, 12:55 PM   #83
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Sorry Kai when u say choked, is that saying the morels will be at its max or near enough max at 75w? So will this hertz hdp4 I'm getting at knock off price still within warranty be a good fit for the front stage and still allow for some headroom ?
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      09-28-2012, 01:04 PM   #84
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Quote:
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Sorry Kai when u say choked, is that saying the morels will be at its max or near enough max at 75w? So will this hertz hdp4 I'm getting at knock off price still within warranty be a good fit for the front stage and still allow for some headroom ?
Choked, as in not getting enough power. Read the edit above. If you're like me, and if you want the best, and you want the headroom, you will not be happy with 75Wpc.
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      09-28-2012, 01:11 PM   #85
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Agree with Kai. That's why im adding another amp!
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      09-28-2012, 01:20 PM   #86
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Gotcha :-) ok just ensuring this hertz hdp4 will be enough to power my set up comfortably and not be on its limit..

On another note I've got an infinity reference 7541a 111w @ 4ohms lying around. They won't be much good will they? I do fancy a change and this IR amp is too large to put away neatly or stealthily when my enclosure and what not comes into play n e way.
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      09-28-2012, 02:29 PM   #87
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Quote:
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Gotcha :-) ok just ensuring this hertz hdp4 will be enough to power my set up comfortably and not be on its limit..

On another note I've got an infinity reference 7541a 111w @ 4ohms lying around. They won't be much good will they? I do fancy a change and this IR amp is too large to put away neatly or stealthily when my enclosure and what not comes into play n e way.

I personally liked the idea of going for 6 channels and keeping same wattages across if possible.

I have also read Kaigoss's comment that he is not a big fan of 6 channels due to the differences in outputs and lack of headroom with 75W. That make sense TBH.


But you can follow what mob17 is doing. To increase headroom you can go for two amplifiers in that case.

For your rear and central speaker you can use infinity amp which you mentioned above.

When it comes to space, why don't you use the space in P 5MUL box (behind sub amplifier).

Looking at the dimensions of hertz, I do not think that it can be hidden on the left hand side of the trunk or under boot floor.

Any update on your sub / amp?
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      09-28-2012, 03:29 PM   #88
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Hey man,
I think due to the compact amp that hertz is, I'll go with that albeit 4 chn.

I've secured the 12w7 but need to pay n pick up however were not able to test it as neither of us have an amp or w/e to test it so a little hesitant to drop 250 for something I've not seen work...

My other question was whether the 12w7 will fit in P5UMLs build given he runs a 10w7. The dimensions of the build is 36" length, 16/17" height and 16" width. I know I'll have to make a bigger hole to fit the 12" otherwise hopefully that should fit.

Re: sub amp, I'll get the amp at a later stage. Just wanna ensure I secure the sub for now as they don't come by often. I'll also look into a hifonics to power my sub when I'm at that stage as it would fit perfectly into the pre cut build

If anyone knows how to advise checking a sub, please let me know.

Thanks again guys.

Quote:
Originally Posted by makkan00 View Post
I personally liked the idea of going for 6 channels and keeping same wattages across if possible.

I have also read Kaigoss's comment that he is not a big fan of 6 channels due to the differences in outputs and lack of headroom with 75W. That make sense TBH.


But you can follow what mob17 is doing. To increase headroom you can go for two amplifiers in that case.

For your rear and central speaker you can use infinity amp which you mentioned above.

When it comes to space, why don't you use the space in P 5MUL box (behind sub amplifier).

Looking at the dimensions of hertz, I do not think that it can be hidden on the left hand side of the trunk or under boot floor.

Any update on your sub / amp?
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