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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N55 Turbo Engine Tuning and Exhaust Modifications - 335i Tuning > Twin turbo N55 with forged internals



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      08-31-2012, 06:50 AM   #1
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Twin turbo N55 with forged internals

I'm not sure if you guys have seen this..

The interesting part starts at post #109
Looks like the guys at Manhart have not been slacking:


http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showt...=727559&page=5


Clearly can be done...I'm just curious which ECU will be used. Would probably have to be the N55 one to handle valvetronic..
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      08-31-2012, 07:58 AM   #2
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Interesting indeed
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      08-31-2012, 09:09 AM   #3
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hmmmm.... greatly sucks on the confirmation of cast internals vs forged to "save money". I paid the same price for an n54 but got an n55 with cast parts and a struggling turbo.....
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      08-31-2012, 09:26 AM   #4
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I'm pretty sure we won't be seeing over engineered engines anytime soon...
Well, maybe with the exception of the new Subaru/Toyota boxer unit..

N54 is a tank compared to what we get now ;]
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      08-31-2012, 10:40 AM   #5
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      08-31-2012, 10:45 AM   #6
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I wonder what they used for tuning.
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      09-02-2012, 07:48 PM   #7
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Lol cool they turned a n55 into a early n54.... Hehehe
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      09-03-2012, 09:23 AM   #8
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Is this really worth it...
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      09-03-2012, 09:30 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMW_Belgier View Post
Is this really worth it...
looks like we're about to find out
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      09-03-2012, 10:54 AM   #10
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Nice for a project or just to debunk any naysayers, no way I would ever consider something like this for my own car at a price point probably well over $15,000.
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      09-03-2012, 11:50 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madmanhiker View Post
hmmmm.... greatly sucks on the confirmation of cast internals vs forged to "save money". I paid the same price for an n54 but got an n55 with cast parts and a struggling turbo.....
N54s are not forged either. I know people say some of the very early ones were, they never were and they are very very wrong. And I know someone will point me to the link where the N54 guy disassembled his motor and says it has forged pistons and rods, they are NOT forged, and can clearly be seen in the pics.

You paid the same price for a better engine all around then the N54. Stock vs stock. BMW engineering unfortunately wasn't looking for max performance when aftermarket tuning was involved. They were focused on emissions, durability, longevity and all that fun government crap. The N55 IS a better motor then the N54 stock vs stock. Thats what you paid for.
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      09-03-2012, 01:07 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Juiced46
Quote:
Originally Posted by madmanhiker View Post
hmmmm.... greatly sucks on the confirmation of cast internals vs forged to "save money". I paid the same price for an n54 but got an n55 with cast parts and a struggling turbo.....
N54s are not forged either. I know people say some of the very early ones were, they never were and they are very very wrong. And I know someone will point me to the link where the N54 guy disassembled his motor and says it has forged pistons and rods, they are NOT forged, and can clearly be seen in the pics.

You paid the same price for a better engine all around then the N54. Stock vs stock. BMW engineering unfortunately wasn't looking for max performance when aftermarket tuning was involved. They were focused on emissions, durability, longevity and all that fun government crap. The N55 IS a better motor then the N54 stock vs stock. Thats what you paid for.
Thank you.
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      09-03-2012, 03:37 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Juiced46 View Post
N54s are not forged either. I know people say some of the very early ones were, they never were and they are very very wrong. And I know someone will point me to the link where the N54 guy disassembled his motor and says it has forged pistons and rods, they are NOT forged, and can clearly be seen in the pics.

You paid the same price for a better engine all around then the N54. Stock vs stock. BMW engineering unfortunately wasn't looking for max performance when aftermarket tuning was involved. They were focused on emissions, durability, longevity and all that fun government crap. The N55 IS a better motor then the N54 stock vs stock. Thats what you paid for.
multiple threads to forged internals in early build N54. gets your facts right, later n54's 09 an up aren't forged where as earlier build were. how would you consider the N55 motor better? the N54 isn't an issue at all its surrounding components that have issues. IE: HPFP, LPFP........

sorry for but don't start talking
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      09-03-2012, 04:27 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazylegs View Post
multiple threads to forged internals in early build N54. gets your facts right, later n54's 09 an up aren't forged where as earlier build were. how would you consider the N55 motor better? the N54 isn't an issue at all its surrounding components that have issues. IE: HPFP, LPFP........

sorry for but don't start talking
There is one thread about the N54 being forged in earlier years, then multiple other threads of people assuming it was forged from that one post, then it spread like wildfire on assumptions. How do I know? I work for BMW. I have disassesmbled BOTH the N54 and N55 motor many times. They are not forged, even the early ones, they were not forged. I have spoken to numerous BMW engineers about this as well to confirm. They also confirmed there was never a Forged piston/rod assembly in an N54 production motor. I know my facts, other then reading what people assume on the internet. I have first hand experience. If you read the thread of the one owners N54 bottom end build where he says the pistons are forged, you can clearly see they are not. Take it for what its worth.
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      09-03-2012, 05:27 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Juiced46 View Post
There is one thread about the N54 being forged in earlier years, then multiple other threads of people assuming it was forged from that one post, then it spread like wildfire on assumptions. How do I know? I work for BMW. I have disassesmbled BOTH the N54 and N55 motor many times. They are not forged, even the early ones, they were not forged. I have spoken to numerous BMW engineers about this as well to confirm. They also confirmed there was never a Forged piston/rod assembly in an N54 production motor. I know my facts, other then reading what people assume on the internet. I have first hand experience. If you read the thread of the one owners N54 bottom end build where he says the pistons are forged, you can clearly see they are not. Take it for what its worth.
+1

The only thing that was forged was the crank...

The new M135i has the forged crank aswell... With an N55 engine
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      09-03-2012, 05:37 PM   #16
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I didn't mean all internals, should have mentioned in previous post. the crank an Some have rods an pistons. A few reputable people have torn down there engines and confirmed it. Also if the N55 is the better engine then why is the 1m an 335is N54 powered? now you did say stock for stock...
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      09-03-2012, 05:51 PM   #17
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Why should BMW give some people engines with forged internals and some not...

The crank was forged! That's official! The rest... i'm not saying BS... i'm just thinking it...
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      09-03-2012, 07:07 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazylegs View Post
I didn't mean all internals, should have mentioned in previous post. the crank an Some have rods an pistons. A few reputable people have torn down there engines and confirmed it. Also if the N55 is the better engine then why is the 1m an 335is N54 powered? now you did say stock for stock...
I have yet to see any confirmation of a forged piston/rod in an N54 because they do not exist. The pics that were posted that people are saying are forged are actually CAST rods/pistons, you can clearly see it in the pictures! They do not know how to tell the difference that is why they are saying its forged. Hmmm lets see who do we believe. BMW engineers that say a forged piston/rod set never went into an N54 or some random person on the internet? Like I said, take it for what its worth. I have first hand experience with many N55 and N54 teardowns along with many conversations with BMW engineers about this particular topic. Top that off with every bit of training material that states CAST pistons/rods. You people can go on believing that the N54 has forged pistons/rods all you want, its just a myth. One person said it now everyone thinks it LOL!

....and why is the new M3 engine based off an N55? hmmmm Your argument means nothing because the IS and 1M use an N54. The N55 has been proven a better engine, more efficient, better fuel economy and more responsive.
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      09-03-2012, 07:12 PM   #19
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Here is a picture from the thread of the "reputable" person that tore down an N54. This is pulled right from his thread. Just because a person takes their engine apart does not mean they know what they are looking at. This picture is directly from that rebuild thread. This piston/rod combo they state is FORGED. It indeed is NOT. You can clearly see the casting in the rod and piston. If you do not know the difference between forged and cast maybe you should do a google search

Here is said picture.




Now this picture below is a FORGED piston and rod( this is not out of a BMW but doesnt matter), see the difference in the metal?

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      09-03-2012, 08:35 PM   #20
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Crazylegs, you can't say that the N54 is the better engine, because the actual engine itself is not better or worse. Sure, the N54's stock turbo's will produce more power than the N55's stock turbo can, but that has nothing to do with the engine's internals and technology used. You have to take your head out of the "tuneability" aspect of things, because comparing a 5-6 year old engine that's had an ample amount of R&D time, to an engine that hasn't even been out for 2 years yet is pointless. In fact, i'd venture to say that the N55's progress in 1 1/2 years has been much higher than the N54's progress that was made in the first 1 1/2 years of the N54.

Juiced46's points about the internals is correct: no N54 ever produced has had forged pistons. I have an N54 and am saying this, so I don't really have anything to gain. The N55 is FAR from being a bad motor, and it's going to be used in the next M3 as Juiced stated.

The reason they used the N54 in the 335iS and the 1M is to get rid of their inventory. It's much easier for BMW to market the older N54 in a "premium" model to increase their profits (ripping people off by essentially flashing a Dinan tune and adding M-Sport), getting rid of their motor supply at the same time. If I were a car manufacture, I would do the same excact thing, instead of throwing out inventory. You have to look at it from a business perspective: we are talking about mass-marketed 3 series BMW's, so there's going to be alot of inventory.
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      09-03-2012, 10:05 PM   #21
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BOOM Juiced46 dropping knowledge up in here
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      09-04-2012, 01:14 AM   #22
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I actually have not seen that thread... I retract my previous statement on rods/pistons.

Not saying the n55 is a bad motor. Its more fuel efficient and cleaner than the n54. I am looking at it from a tuning standpoint.

The n55 in the new m3 is "rumored" to be stronger and reworked with multiple turbos.

I'm done trolling not trying to hate. The n55 will do something big in the next couple years.
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