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      09-04-2012, 12:13 PM   #23
BabyrayS2k
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UncleWede View Post
I am so sick and tired of people saying "you won't find an American doing that"

My grandparents came from Germany and Ireland (legally, through Ellis Island) A short list of the things I have/continue to do in my daily life:
picked strawberries, blackberries, apples, cherris
raked hay, milked cows, chased pigs back into their pens
cut the grass, and the grass at the little league
clean toilets (public and private)
empty trash cans
paint, both interior and exterior
lay tile
carried the shingles up to the roof, but didn't know enough to nail them up there
wash cars

All the while, I have a normal work week as an IT manager, got thru school, both undergrad and graduate SCIENCE degrees. I was born in this nation's capital, am 100% AMERICAN, while still tracing my roots back to their origin in another country.

/rant
I am German and Scottish. Not sure what you're point is?

My point is that we have people who are American citizens (I don't really give a shit where their ancestors are from), who refuse to work, and live off of the hard work of others. Meanwhile we have people who are not citizens, doing the work in this country that our freeloader citizens are to damn lazy too do.
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      09-04-2012, 12:14 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigjae1976 View Post
Not directed at you but there's the problem. People think this is free money but its coming from someplace.
Yes I know there's nothing as a free lunch.

It's coming from me and you etc who pay taxes etc etc

But when you get $ when you're not working for it with no need to pay it back... it becomes "free"
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      09-04-2012, 12:18 PM   #25
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A cell phone is considered a luxury, not a necessity.
Go apply at a local McDonald's, how hard can that be.
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      09-04-2012, 12:33 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by persian54 View Post
Yes I know there's nothing as a free lunch.

It's coming from me and you etc who pay taxes etc etc

But when you get $ when you're not working for it with no need to pay it back... it becomes "free"
I wasn't directing that comment at you...probably could have said that differently.
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      09-04-2012, 12:41 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UncleWede View Post
I am so sick and tired of people saying "you won't find an American doing that"

My grandparents came from Germany and Ireland (legally, through Ellis Island) A short list of the things I have/continue to do in my daily life:
picked strawberries, blackberries, apples, cherris
raked hay, milked cows, chased pigs back into their pens
cut the grass, and the grass at the little league
clean toilets (public and private)
empty trash cans
paint, both interior and exterior
lay tile
carried the shingles up to the roof, but didn't know enough to nail them up there
wash cars

All the while, I have a normal work week as an IT manager, got thru school, both undergrad and graduate SCIENCE degrees. I was born in this nation's capital, am 100% AMERICAN, while still tracing my roots back to their origin in another country.

/rant
I think the difficulty today is it seems more difficult for teenagers to get jobs or parents aren't pushing it. Really, it was those jobs where you learn the value of a dollar doing odd jobs from taking out trash to filing stuff at an accounting firm and working at a gas station.

I'm not sure if that's a shift to making kids competitive for tomorrow. But I think the general waning of parental involvement over the past decade is starting to show the results, entitlement. I think the welfare phones are just the result of a far larger problem and not THE issue.

The issue is the family structure where parents are getting less involved. I saw an FB post about a life preserver. Yeah, it helps but some see it as a replacement for supervision when its not. I don't put any flotation devices on my kids. Another is education. I'm usually the only parent in my daughter's class that regularly talks to the teacher...the teachers have told me so. The teachers tell me about any issues or areas of improvement and then we, the parents, take responsibility in assisting my daughter to improve. Too often parents, from my observations, leave it up to the teacher to do everything for one reason or another.

And I can go on and on with examples of parents (as a whole) passing the buck.
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      09-04-2012, 01:20 PM   #28
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In general, I'm fine with welfare, free lunches, even free cell phones, but only when it's temporary and reasonable and serves the purpose of helping people to get back on their feet.

The issue is instead of seeking for assistance it became a norm, a lifestyle, and when you have a significant number of people who vote for living, not work for living, this won't end since no one will have guts (and support) to change it.
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      09-04-2012, 01:41 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigjae1976 View Post
I wasn't directing that comment at you...probably could have said that differently.
I know what you meant.

I should have worded it differently originally :P
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      09-04-2012, 02:16 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by persian54 View Post
i don't know if that's before or after taxes.

or he could have exaggerated.

regardless, that's free $$
I lost my job in 08 because the company shut down and moved to the midwest. I was getting 550/week before taxes. just enough to cover my 335 i bought 2 months before the shutdown.
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      09-04-2012, 02:22 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by persian54 View Post
I know what you meant.

I should have worded it differently originally :P
No, I should have pre-worded it differently before your original post.
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      09-05-2012, 09:43 AM   #32
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What was that quote again - something like:

"The government who steals money from John to give to Frank can always count on Frank's vote"?

Probably a strategy right - with more people on welfare (and voting), government would be insane to ignore such a large population if they wish to be re-elected. Not saying that's right of course, simply a smart strategy, albeit it frustrating for everyone who actually contributes to society.

Hey, if voting turned into a priviledge rather than a right, and you took the ability of these welfare recipients to vote away, I'll bet you'd see mass reforms in the welfare programs...its all about which group represents the largest voice.
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      09-05-2012, 09:48 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joekerr View Post
Hey, if voting turned into a priviledge rather than a right, and you took the ability of these welfare recipients to vote away, I'll bet you'd see mass reforms in the welfare programs...its all about which group represents the largest voice.
That's a good idea but you'd get stoned if you said that on TV. Either way, that's the road away from freedom if you ask me.

I think welfare should provide a product, not vouchers or in-kind reimbursement. For example if you are on food stamps, you get food. Not negotiable currency.
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      09-05-2012, 10:05 AM   #34
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Ray,
My point was/is that it's just BS that Americans won't do the work. I did, and still do, all the manual labor I can, despite being well educated and having a decent non-labor job.

As BigJae points out, many of us learned that work ethic while teenagers, but now kids are learning to be entitled and not work for it, they don't get the education of the value of a dollar thru hard, honest, sweaty/dirty work. In part because those opportunities to learn how to work in dirty/sweaty disgusting jobs are now occupied semi-permanantly by non-Americans, with the justification that "Americans won't do those jobs"

BigJae, I'm with you at school. Make sure she gets some of those dirty jobs too, so that education remains a focus in her life.

DAMN IT! OK, I recognize it now, I have crossed over into geezer-hood
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      09-05-2012, 10:12 AM   #35
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BigJae - I completely agree with you - I think that is the road away from freedom too, would not want to see that happen because where do you draw the line. No, it should remain a right.

All I was trying to do was emphasize the point that it is whoever has the largest voice wins...right now unemployment is high, so everyone wants a government that will look after them. And all the other programs.

I'd also agree that there should be less negotiability to it. I'd take it one step further though - if they are doing nothing, then I'd say they need to spend a morning or afternoon every day of the week sweeping streets or something useful, cleaning parks, whatever - but with a supervisor that they report to who states whether they showed up or not. And the other half of the day they can spend looking for a job / attending interviews...that way whatever time the interview is, they spend the other half working for society that feeds them. That's fair.

And if they choose not to work and do nothing, then society gets to choose not to support them. That's fair too.

But realistically will this ever be implemented? No, because any politician who proposes it will not get the votes from the welfare crowd, and the rest of us who actually would benefit from this are too apathetic still to actually vote that guy in. We'd say its due to party differences or whatever, but end result, they wouldn't get elected.

Your country (and mine) has to continue circling the drain and get much farther down the drain before we can expect to see any reform.
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      09-05-2012, 10:21 AM   #36
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It's hard to get a job without a telephone. And forget about pay phones. I cannot remember the last time I saw a working one.
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      09-05-2012, 10:38 AM   #37
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Quote:
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Yea if you are homeless or live with your folks who you going to call?
"Unemployment-busters" !
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      09-05-2012, 10:48 AM   #38
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if there's something strange in your neighborhood , who you gonna call...
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      09-05-2012, 11:13 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigjae1976
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joekerr View Post
Hey, if voting turned into a priviledge rather than a right, and you took the ability of these welfare recipients to vote away, I'll bet you'd see mass reforms in the welfare programs...its all about which group represents the largest voice.
That's a good idea but you'd get stoned if you said that on TV. Either way, that's the road away from freedom if you ask me.

I think welfare should provide a product, not vouchers or in-kind reimbursement. For example if you are on food stamps, you get food. Not negotiable currency.
Imagine costs involved in food distribution. EBT cards is much more cost efficient solution, since grocery stores already have all infrastructure in place. Yes it opens possibilities for abuse, but it's lesser of the evils.
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      09-05-2012, 12:05 PM   #40
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hey it could be worse , you could be paying for a convicted killers sex change.....wait it's already happening in Ma..
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      09-05-2012, 12:54 PM   #41
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Actually, from a conspiracy side of things. I bet the Feds use the gps tracking capabilities of the devices.
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      09-05-2012, 03:29 PM   #42
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Quote:
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If McDonald's hires someone on welfare how are they going to call you with no phone? Carrier pigeons?
Not my problem man. I should NOT HAVE TO PAY FOR YOUR SHIT!
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      09-05-2012, 03:34 PM   #43
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If you are on welfare, I already pay extra on my phone bill for you to have a LAND line in your home. If you aren't out getting another job, you need to be sitting by the phone waiting for an employer to call. I can't see that if anybody, including the Golden ones, had to wait for a few hours for a return call that you wouldn't get the job. Tell them up front you are out pounding the pavement and will check mesages when you get home.
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      09-05-2012, 03:45 PM   #44
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Quote:
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If you are on welfare, I already pay extra on my phone bill for you to have a LAND line in your home. If you aren't out getting another job, you need to be sitting by the phone waiting for an employer to call. I can't see that if anybody, including the Golden ones, had to wait for a few hours for a return call that you wouldn't get the job. Tell them up front you are out pounding the pavement and will check mesages when you get home.
Dude is just looking for excuses. Just like the freeloaders bleeding you dry.
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