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      09-05-2012, 12:56 PM   #1
andrey_gta
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N52 runs w/o intake manifold - youtube find

Found this video today



What do you guys think?
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      09-05-2012, 01:04 PM   #2
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I've never actually seen someone attempt to run any car without an IM. I wouldn't have thought you'd be able to regulate the air going in and it would just rev uncontrollably (if it ran at all).
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      09-05-2012, 01:31 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike-y View Post
I've never actually seen someone attempt to run any car without an IM. I wouldn't have thought you'd be able to regulate the air going in and it would just rev uncontrollably (if it ran at all).
Remember, our throttle bodies are superficial in their function. Our engines use valvetronic to regulate the air intake through the intake valves' variability.

You are correct in terms of what would happen to a vehicle that depends on a throttle body.
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      09-05-2012, 01:35 PM   #4
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yeah, I thought about it for a bit and remembered the valvetronic can close the intake valves to the point where barely any air would come in, and hence be able to idle without a manifold.

I came back here to edit my post, but you beat me to it issa!
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      09-05-2012, 01:36 PM   #5
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wow, never would've figured it'd run.

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      09-05-2012, 01:40 PM   #6
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Understanding that to be true, the throttle body is only there on start up and warm up to provide a vaccum to the engines parts that need it, brakes and so on. How is it so far into the game where we dont have a better manifold made yet for us? Ive seen the prototype one and again Im new to the N54 but how hard can it be. I know theres tuning needed for torque curves and such but only on the low low end, as a turbo engine we have so much potential on this one piece!
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      09-05-2012, 02:26 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Goofyguy View Post
How is it so far into the game where we dont have a better manifold made yet for us? Ive seen the prototype one and again Im new to the N54 but how hard can it be. I know theres tuning needed for torque curves and such but only on the low low end, as a turbo engine we have so much potential on this one piece!
Although this is a n52 int he video and not a n54, I agree with you regarding intake manifold options.

The intake with DISA seems to create pressure with valves to get those Tq and Hp spikes, why cant someone take this concept further?


Also in anyone noticed that the 2011 n52 with DISA in the f10 5 series & f25 x3 has added heat sinks to the 2nd and 4th intake pipe on the manifold & a new engine cover. Wonder what the logic is, the engine is only tuned to be 10hp more and 30 lb more tq over the 230hp in 328i
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Last edited by andrey_gta; 09-05-2012 at 02:34 PM.
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      09-05-2012, 02:45 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andrey_gta View Post
Although this is a n52 int he video and not a n54, I agree with you regarding intake manifold options.

The intake with DISA seems to create pressure with valves to get those Tq and Hp spikes, why cant someone take this concept further?


Also in anyone noticed that the 2011 n52 with DISA in the f10 5 series & f25 x3 has added heat sinks to the 2nd and 4th intake pipe on the manifold & a new engine cover. Wonder what the logic is, the engine is only tuned to be 10hp more and 30 lb more tq over the 230hp in 328i
Can't find the thread, maybe someone on here could chime in, but there is someone on here with a built N52 running e36 ITB's. The valvetronic is locked fully open which makes use of the itb's, and he's making some serious power.

I'm not sure if this will yield more power than building a better intake manifold because I'm positive valvetronic was made to make power as well as retain economy. Someone would need to look into our options regarding this and make some goodies for us.

The N52 is a damn good performance motor in need of some true N/A upgrades.
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      09-06-2012, 12:13 AM   #9
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i wonder what numbers you would see if he was to dyno the car this way
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      09-06-2012, 12:14 AM   #10
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wait nevermind, brainfart
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      09-07-2012, 01:26 AM   #11
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Can't find the thread, maybe someone on here could chime in, but there is someone on here with a built N52 running e36 ITB's. The valvetronic is locked fully open which makes use of the itb's, and he's making some serious power.
Seems familiar... I think you're talking about this thread:
http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?p=9529112
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=737221
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      09-11-2012, 08:39 PM   #12
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new vid


yes that 130i is using a Motec ECU and since the valavetronic is locked they need the ITB from e36
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      03-11-2013, 03:57 PM   #13
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sorry to bump an old thread but this is interesting to me. Is this running without the MAF sensor connected? OR is the MAF plugged in so its still able to run?

MY next question is in theory if this car was able to run and drive couldnt you just simulate an ITB setup and essentially just have a set of tubes off of the ports with no throttle blades inside them? I mean sure small filters would be necessary but it seems like that Valvetronic system is really whats regulating the incoming airflow.

So in conclusion the MAF sensor looks to be useless and the throttle body looks to be useless as well. IF these two things are not plugged in it would look to be possible to accomplish my said ITB simulated setup etc..? OR maybe just keep them plugged in so the ECU thinks they are there and run the simulated ITB setup?

I am new to this obviously but i like to get creative rather than just the usual off the shelf parts.
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      03-11-2013, 04:48 PM   #14
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welcome to valvetronic
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      03-11-2013, 09:36 PM   #15
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thanks so am i on the right track or completely outta my mind? Do you think this idea of mine is even possible and would you think there could be any power from it?
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      03-12-2013, 04:56 AM   #16
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One thing's for sure - neither of the engines in the vids is suffering from carbon build-up on the intake valves...unless that's why the manifold's been removed of course!
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      03-12-2013, 09:42 AM   #17
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thanks so am i on the right track or completely outta my mind? Do you think this idea of mine is even possible and would you think there could be any power from it?
You would need alpha N tuning to run the car without the Maf.

This method works wonders on the e46 m3 when the stock manifold is replaced with a csl manifold but it also has Itb's and not valvetronic.
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      03-12-2013, 10:17 AM   #18
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You would need alpha N tuning to run the car without the Maf.

This method works wonders on the e46 m3 when the stock manifold is replaced with a csl manifold but it also has Itb's and not valvetronic.
It'd be interesting to see velocity stacks on an n52. Not that I think it would have any benefit, because I really have no clue if it would, but I know heat soak would be pretty likely. I just think it would look cool, haha.
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      03-12-2013, 10:27 AM   #19
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ok so what would be involved with Alpha N tuning? Is this an expensive tuning process or is it just a matter of something that is necessary? Also do you think if the MAF is not unplugged just removed from the intake tract it will run in Alpha N mode?

Because what it looks like in the videos is the car can be driven without a problem. Doesnt say much about the part throttle response or fuel trims i know but i did a quick search of what Alpha N mode does and its designed by BMW to be a default system that takes over should one of the sensors fail. IE: the MAF. Judging by the videos only, the engine does not look to be in limp mode limiting revs etc... Again IDK what would happen when the car is driving under load.
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      03-12-2013, 12:59 PM   #20
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ITB on n52 have been done by a race car in the UK, user kbird or Kevin Bird of Birds tuning. Involved setting the VVT to full tilt/open and running Motec ECU.


The video here shows a car at idle, I believe all the sensors are plugged in or the dashboard is all Christmas lights. Our manifold has a few things attached to it: Throttle body ( which really is a fail safe for valvetronic, air pressure sensor, oil separator tubes. The Maf is in the airbox.


I had an idea some time back to simply cut up the manifold removing the throttle body. With everything else still attached the engine would work with only the pressure sensor being any issue.
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      03-12-2013, 01:21 PM   #21
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i saw that 1 series thing its really nice looking and i am sure it flies although he seems to be reluctant to post any videos IDK why because that is a real unique and looks to be a hell of a performing setup. He supposedly made 300whp still using stock internals just locking valvetronic open,bolting on the ITB setup, and tuning with the MOTEC system. Thats great news if you think about it becuz that means the cylinder head has great air flow characteristics and the cams can make power etc... All thats really needed is breather mods and away you go

I did think of also removing the T/B and just having an adapter bolt up to simulate where the T/B goes and then securing an intake pipe to it. Well not unplugging the T/B just moving it out of the way because the throttle blade locks in the open position neway upon startup to allow max airflow to the valves of the valvetronic system and like you said the T/B is just a failsafe. So given this it doesnt seem like a problem to eliminate it from the intake tract all together just simply moving it off to the side and replacing it with an adapter plate of some sort to allow for that extra little bit of airflow. Just my opinion of course becuz it would need to be tested to verify this for sure.

Imagine this cutting off the entire plenum of a spare manifold and running open air runners with a makeshift air filter over the runners and doing that Alpha N tune. Now that would be a sik setup for pretty cheap.

Last edited by ThreeLO; 03-12-2013 at 01:32 PM.
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      03-12-2013, 03:02 PM   #22
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Thats great news if you think about it ...
All thats really needed is breather mods and away you go
Breather mods yes, worked for me, every mod opendup TQ and some hp. Kbird used custom cams and headers along with all else to get 300hp

Quote:
Just my opinion of course becuz it would need to be tested to verify this for sure.
Look up maxbore.com and a salvaged throttle body for 300 or less you can get your self a larger bore TB. The Dinan larget TB recived mixed reviews, but it seems that for what you described this would be the easiest option.


Quote:
Imagine... Alpha N tune. Now that would be a sik setup for pretty cheap.
There is no Alpha N tune, I asked Evolve. They dont have any desire to try at this time. I also have a spare manifold.
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