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      09-28-2012, 10:34 AM   #1
dd1981
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BMW 335i 8 speed auto vs s4 double clutch? Trans related only.

Well I just wanted to see those of you that have driven both what your thoughts are on a Audi B8 PDK and F30 335i 8 speed sport trans.

I drove a 2012 B8 s4 with the 7 speed double clutch last year. I liked it. It thought it was good and shifted fast. At this pint the f30 was not even out yet.

Now that I made my purchase on a 2012 F30 335i, and I think the 8 speed sport trans is just amazing. I really like it more then the VW PDK double clutch. And it does not feel lazy down low if you know what I mean. It just seems like it shifts harder and faster. Just seems more refined. The S4 never hit the gears as hard as the F30.

What do you guys think? Maybe its just me, because I drive the F30 almost every day and its in my head. Just curious on everyone elses input.
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      09-28-2012, 07:46 PM   #2
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I had driven vw's DSG (quite often as I used to work for them) and Audi's S-tronic. They both behave more like a standard automatic if you compare them to PDK (Porsche) or DCT (BMW). The new 8-speed auto (experience from a 328i) from BMW is very smooth and carries the power in a very balanced way. However, I can't really make comparison between an auto tranny and dual clutch tranny.
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      09-28-2012, 08:06 PM   #3
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ZF8> audi dsg imo.

the ZF shifts just as fast as the audi dsg, and my car gets over 36mpg on the highway.
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      09-28-2012, 11:28 PM   #4
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Audi has the same 8 speed ZF transmission(it was actually out in the B8 A4 2.0t before in BMW) if it was a better performing transmission it would be in the S4.

The sensation you mention of the gears banging harder is exactly what you want to avoid as it means the engine has to cut/re-engage power to deal with the transmission shift.
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      09-29-2012, 12:38 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffc31337
Audi has the same 8 speed ZF transmission(it was actually out in the B8 A4 2.0t before in BMW) if it was a better performing transmission it would be in the S4.

The sensation you mention of the gears banging harder is exactly what you want to avoid as it means the engine has to cut/re-engage power to deal with the transmission shift.
I don't know about how hard the gears engage in the new 8 spd.
I've driven an e46 m3 smg with all the driver aids off and the settings for the transmission at the highest level and I've never been in another vehicle that has had such a hard gear change. It's pretty brutal how hard the gears engage with the smg.
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      09-29-2012, 10:47 AM   #6
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I don't know about how hard the gears engage in the new 8 spd.
I've driven an e46 m3 smg with all the driver aids off and the settings for the transmission at the highest level and I've never been in another vehicle that has had such a hard gear change. It's pretty brutal how hard the gears engage with the smg.
The old SMG was a single clutch; there are a number of these in other cars and just about all of them are known for harsh gear changes.(Audi R-TRonic in the old v8 r8 etc)

Being a single cluth the shfit speed is much slower than a dual cutch. The faster a transmission is able to shift the less jarring you feel on gear changes.
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      09-29-2012, 02:50 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffc31337 View Post
The old SMG was a single clutch; there are a number of these in other cars and just about all of them are known for harsh gear changes.(Audi R-TRonic in the old v8 r8 etc)

Being a single cluth the shfit speed is much slower than a dual cutch. The faster a transmission is able to shift the less jarring you feel on gear changes.
Maybe because the zf in our F30's still has a converter and it still feels this way.
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      09-29-2012, 02:57 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justinnum1 View Post
ZF8> audi dsg imo.

the ZF shifts just as fast as the audi dsg, and my car gets over 36mpg on the highway.
This is the driver feel I get, but is it actually better in the real world performance wise?

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Originally Posted by jeffc31337 View Post
Audi has the same 8 speed ZF transmission(it was actually out in the B8 A4 2.0t before in BMW) if it was a better performing transmission it would be in the S4.

The sensation you mention of the gears banging harder is exactly what you want to avoid as it means the engine has to cut/re-engage power to deal with the transmission shift.
Interesting. The thing is when Im doing spirited driving my car is always properly warmed up, and once I floor it theres is not much I can do to avoid how the gear change occurs. I get on it and it cahanges at its shift pints, how hard it changes is not something I could really avoid unless I get off the throttle.

Im not sure banging would be the word I would use in this instance, Im not even sure how to describe it, it just seems like it shifts quicker and better. But how can an 8 speed auto with a converter be better then a double clutch trans in theory? My guess is it cant? But why does it feel like its better not sure, but I like it.
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      09-30-2012, 01:43 AM   #9
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Driven the new X3 with 8-speed auto. To be honest I really did not like it. During spirited driving it was hunting for gears, didn't always go into the gear I wanted. I always thought the S4 dual clutch was fantastic, love the throttle blips on downshifts. It does what you ask of it. But when it comes done to it, I like to have a third pedal.
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      09-30-2012, 10:52 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by M3_WC View Post
Driven the new X3 with 8-speed auto. To be honest I really did not like it. During spirited driving it was hunting for gears, didn't always go into the gear I wanted. I always thought the S4 dual clutch was fantastic, love the throttle blips on downshifts. It does what you ask of it. But when it comes done to it, I like to have a third pedal.
WHile Im happy with this 8speed auto in my 335i, but I could not agree more. Noting, I mean nothing replaces that 3rd pedal and rowing your own gears. Just feels too good, too fun to down shift into a curve, puts a smile on my face every time.
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      10-02-2012, 03:31 PM   #11
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WHile Im happy with this 8speed auto in my 335i, but I could not agree more. Noting, I mean nothing replaces that 3rd pedal and rowing your own gears. Just feels too good, too fun to down shift into a curve, puts a smile on my face every time.
Paddles replace it.
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      10-02-2012, 03:50 PM   #12
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My friend just got a F30 335i; test drove an S4 with the dual-clutch transmission. He said he didn't like it as much as his current car. He might have had the same feelings as you had.
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      10-03-2012, 09:02 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LSPowered View Post
Paddles replace it.
That's like saying masturbation supplants sex...

2013 S4 DSG seems improved over the previous model years, have yet to really play with the sport auto.
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      10-04-2012, 09:52 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LSPowered View Post
Paddles replace it.
Its still not the same, paddles or no paddles. I dont regret my choice by opting for the 8 speed auto, but I miss driving manual!
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      10-12-2012, 08:58 AM   #15
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That's like saying masturbation supplants sex...

2013 S4 DSG seems improved over the previous model years, have yet to really play with the sport auto.
Cool, have fun trying to shift faster than a computer. Not gonna happen.
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      10-12-2012, 02:59 PM   #16
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Quote:
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Cool, have fun trying to shift faster than a computer. Not gonna happen.
I never said I could... I've owned DCT and quite like it. But saying a DSG is just as involved as a manual is ridiculous.
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