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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > Vargas Turbo making upgraded turbos



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      09-06-2012, 01:10 PM   #45
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Hey guys obviously I cant say too much on here because I am not a Vendor. I did contact the admin before I actually talked to *********** and did not receive a reply about being a vendor. I would love to be one so Admin feel free to shoot me a PM or email me to discuss terms. In the mean time feel free to follow the thread on the other site for updates until I can become a Vendor on this site. And to answer the question above. I actually set up a wholesale account with them to get those Billet actuators and was going to offer them as an option. But As Rob from RB has stated in the past. There really is not need for them besides cool factor the stock units are very capable and work great at a good price. I still might offer them but they really wont equate to any real numbers from what I can see, too bad you cant see them once they are installed cause they look bad ass. Looking forward to what is to come and helping this community with quality products.
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      09-06-2012, 01:17 PM   #46
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^ Get this dude vendor status already...
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      09-06-2012, 01:21 PM   #47
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I bench tested them a year or so ago, performed worse than the OEM units. Data was presented on other forum.
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      09-06-2012, 01:23 PM   #48
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I know who these guys are.
I live in the Bay Area and they were doing turbo development and custom stuff as far back as 1981 when my brother was drag racing. They were doing all kinds of custom stuff back then.

I'm glad they are getting in the game. This means I don't need to go out of town to get good replacements. YEAH!

They should be able to do anything RB and Vishnu do with their stuff.
I don't work for them or speak for them, but I can vouch for their work.
They do go waaaaayyyy back in terms of turbo development and have been in the same area for all those 35 years.

If my turbos die, I know where I'll be shopping.
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      09-06-2012, 01:32 PM   #49
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^ Get this dude vendor status already...
+1000!!!
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      09-06-2012, 02:06 PM   #50
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stage 3 would be very nice,
If you guys make stage 3 im in.
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      09-06-2012, 02:16 PM   #51
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stage 3 would be very nice,
If you guys make stage 3 im in.
Its being built. Hopefully I can get set up as a vendor here and I will keep everyone posted on progress.
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      09-06-2012, 02:33 PM   #52
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Its being built. Hopefully I can get set up as a vendor here and I will keep everyone posted on progress.
yes please keep us posted
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      09-06-2012, 05:39 PM   #53
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Its being built. Hopefully I can get set up as a vendor here and I will keep everyone posted on progress.
pm me specs and info on release date and $uch.. thanks
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      09-06-2012, 08:14 PM   #54
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Hey guys obviously I cant say too much on here because I am not a Vendor. I did contact the admin before I actually talked to *********** and did not receive a reply about being a vendor. I would love to be one so Admin feel free to shoot me a PM or email me to discuss terms. In the mean time feel free to follow the thread on the other site for updates until I can become a Vendor on this site. And to answer the question above. I actually set up a wholesale account with them to get those Billet actuators and was going to offer them as an option. But As Rob from RB has stated in the past. There really is not need for them besides cool factor the stock units are very capable and work great at a good price. I still might offer them but they really wont equate to any real numbers from what I can see, too bad you cant see them once they are installed cause they look bad ass. Looking forward to what is to come and helping this community with quality products.
ADMIN!!! LETS GET THIS BALL ROLLING!!!!
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      09-06-2012, 10:40 PM   #55
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I bench tested them a year or so ago, performed worse than the OEM units. Data was presented on other forum.
Elaborate please?
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      09-06-2012, 10:56 PM   #56
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I bench tested them a year or so ago, performed worse than the OEM units. Data was presented on other forum.
Here is a guy running upgraded compressor wheels, with clipped turbines making 450 WHP. But what everyone seems to be missing is. It's been made pretty clear our stage 1's are basically a cost effective alternative to buying new OEM stockers. The stage 2's are what most people are looking for and the stage 3 kits are what the people with RB's are waiting for. For whatever reason they don't seem to want to or have interest in me being a Vendor on this site. I have sent 2 emails and asked the admin to pm me from this thread to discuss details and have heard nothing back. So I'm not sure what's up with that but its all good. Rob refuses to believe someone with 40 years in the turbo industry can make something similar to what he is making for less money when making money isn't the number one goal, he got in the game in 2-3 years ago to make money. I guess we will see. I really enjoy this community and everyone here has been great including Rob. Why he is being so negative is understandable but rather disappointing. All I am trying to do is bring quality products at a lower price point, so more people can go fast.

If you cant see the maps check the other thread
Here is a guy running those Billet AWD basically Stage 1's I was asking about. Not bad numbers at all. Maybe I will look into a Billet wheel option.

"On my last visit, car made this...
Mods: AWD turbos, PROceed 12-17, AA Meth, iCarbon Dp, Vanguard Exhaust, AA intercooler, Vishnu DCI. + 100 Oct. @ 17psi
Temp: 67 degrees


I was unhappy with the result since I ran higher octane fuel with meth. However, my meth kit was just dumping too much meth, got molested I didn't even bother turning up the boost more and just called it a day.

So yesterday dispite the blazing hot weather here in So.Cal, I decided to dyno my baby with few new additions. I drove to MD Automotive in Westminster (Mark the owner is an awesome guy!) it took me about an hour and half to get there. Temperture showing 85 degrees, this is going to be great As soon as I got there, I asked Mark to strap her down! Mark asked me if I want to wait for my car to cool down but I was just too eager to dyno my badboy. Plus, if someone wants to race me, they ain't gonna give me time to cool down But man it was a hot day yesterday...
Right before the dyno I told FrankiE90 "I would be so happy to see 450 in this weather."

First 3 runs...car made 380...400...410....I was like NOOOOOOO. So disappointed. FBO, upgraded turbos, 100oct, meth, 18psi...380!?
I plugged in my laptop, fired up PROceed User Software...
Max Boost: 20
UT: 80
Ign.Corr. 100%.......100%!? Isn't that supposed to be 0%!? Fixed.
And this is what happened.

Mods: AWD Turbos, PROceed 6-14 Beta, Vishnu PWM Meth kit, AA intercooler, GRUppe M Intake, AR DP, Vanguard Exhaust + 100ct ( I had about 78 miles remaining on my tank with 91oct and I topped it off with 100oct from 76 gas station)

So mod difference from last time - Vishnu Meth kit (50/50), GRuppe M intake, AR catless downpipes and PROceed 6-14 beta map.

Temperture: 85-91 degrees. Humid.


I was really happy with numbers it made. Very consistent, on the road car feels unbelievable. If the weather permitted, with higher mix meth 75/25, I should be able to make 480. Easily. Car did 7.9 sec @ Irwindale last night @ 105 degree weather. Boost set up 18psi. Not bad really.



Going to up to visit my brother this weekend to run his C63 AMG. I can't wait to see how badly I beat his little AMG this time

Thanks to LTBMW for Meth/chargepipe install
Thank you dezenno, enrita, RK10004 for answering my PM all the time
Thanks to Vishnu! Shiv & Robert for answering my call & respond to my email so quick!!

P.S. I could have ran higher meth mix but I choose Boost juice since that's what I will be running most of the times. I don't like mixing meth at home all the time and also alot of members here will run Boost juice just like myself. I will eventually do more dyno runs with different fuel variables, 75/25 with 106oct...shop next to LTBMW even has 116 oct but I will pass on that
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      09-06-2012, 11:08 PM   #57
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When I first began development on this project in late 2008 I too had a vision of bringing a “Stage 2” (what I’d truly consider Stage 1) product to the masses for right at this “intro” pricing. As development continued, however, and I actually got to the point of producing a product and realizing what is truly required and at what costs- it would’ve have been business suicide to not pass along the actual costs of a product to appease the masses. Not to mention one that could be stood behind as well over the test of time. This project is one that most anyone who has actually COMPLETED it, knows is very difficult, timely, and costly to produce. To do it correctly, there are exponential amounts of machining and fabrication steps; unlike your typical few on other platforms. Corners can be cut and it surely could be made a little cheaper, but the savings to take these paths are not worthwhile when considering the product that would be released in exchange for the savings. I do realize that as a consumer, however, the mighty dollar on paper is what really matters (at least initially).

Personally I believe it all is very preliminary and that there are many unknown hurdles still out there that must be crossed. Anyone who had followed me from the beginning could likely attest to similar expectations, that grew and grew as more was learned. And this was not my first rodeo either, I had over 5 years working with these exact breeds of turbos used in the performance world prior, developing some cool innovations for other platforms that were very successful and affordable. There have been several other very big companies who have took on this N54 "Stage 2" project only to end up with a much higher cost, more difficult install, and some of which with very poor quality.

As for the Large to Small business comparison, Small businesses typically have a very large advantage due to low overhead. Some small businesses also still have strong connections as well when it comes to suppliers, outsourcing, etc. There are some great advantages had though in being the late arriver and by directly copying a product or by mimicking business practices/data collection/concepts/development from a path already cleared from years of hard work by another; but I digress as that is just the way it works. But that in itself is not enough though to sell a product at a loss.

Time will tell, best of luck to them, but I wouldn’t be so sure that what you are being told at this point is anything near reality when it is said and done. At that point I would be very surprised to see a product sold less than RB pricing, that is if in fact is a similar product from all aspects.
Not really liking where you are going here bud. Sounds like you are just upset someone can bring a product you are overcharging people for and sell it at a lower price. Your small to big business comparison is totally baseless and to be quite honest in terms of business size we are quite small. I am building these turbos on the side for fun using my companies resources as a way to get it done very cost effectively. Where are you building your "Magic" turbos? What kind of equipment do you have? I was trying to be cordial but you openly bashing me is getting old. You should welcome some competition, its what makes business business. If you are SO sure I am going to fail then why do you even care? Talking trash to try to salvage customers seems rather desperate. You have made an awesome product and I applaud you. I plan on making an awesome product of my own. The fact that you think you invented hybrid turbos is pretty insane. We have been doing this for years. So honestly I am not getting into a pissing match with you. I respect you and your product. But do me a favor and quit the bashing of my company and trying to throw sticks and leaves over it by saying "best of luck" you aren't fooling anyone.
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      09-06-2012, 11:08 PM   #58
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My last post had to do with the Forge actuators. Not sure how it was taken out of context. As for the RBs, since brought up, profits are surprisingly low. In fact youll make more on your stage 1 option than I do on RBs. Stage 1s could be done at about $1200 and still have a $1000 markup, especially when you buy all the OEM centers (most still good) for $20 ea from RB who refuses to sell a product he knows is inferior to the new OEM units that are completely brand new complete turbofolds. But that is just the difference between 40 years of business and 8, ethics may skip a generation apparently.

PS. I dont think youll fail per se. Just think your vision of process will have some disappointments the further you move along, which will in turn drive your pricing up more and more. Been there, done that. Good luck.

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      09-06-2012, 11:14 PM   #59
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My last post had to do with the Forge actuators. Not sure how it was taken out of context. As for the RBs, since brought up, profits are surprisingly low. In fact youll make more on your stage 1 option than I do on RBs. Stage 1s could be done at about $1200 and still have a $1000 markup, especially when you buy all the OEM centers (most still good) for $20 ea from RB who refuses to sell a product he knows is inferior to the new OEM units that are completely brand new complete turbofolds. But that is just the difference between 40 years of business and 8, ethics may skip a generation apparently.
Haha, yes you really have been in this business for a very very short amount of time if you think rebuilding turbos from good oem bearing housings is unethical. You may want to grab a dictionary real quick and look up what rebuild means. We rebuild turbos with good center sections that run at full boost for 24 hours a day for months. You really are a spring chicken here Rob and you are making yourself look foolish. Like I said. If you are SO sure I am going to fail why do you care. Sit back, kick your feet up and enjoy the show. And if you cant make any profit selling a set of hybrids for 3 Grand. You are one terrible business man. This is why I am not here to make money off these people. Just here to help. Guess ethics have skipped a generation over there on your side of the hill. Cheers my man
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      09-06-2012, 11:24 PM   #60
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Haha, yes you really have been in this business for a very very short amount of time if you think rebuilding turbos from good oem bearing housings is unethical. You may want to grab a dictionary real quick and look up what rebuild means. We rebuild turbos with good center sections that run at full boost for 24 hours a day for months. You really are a spring chicken here Rob and you are making yourself look foolish. Like I said. If you are SO sure I am going to fail why do you care. Sit back, kick your feet up and enjoy the show. And if you cant make any profit selling a set of hybrids for 3 Grand. You are one terrible business man. This is why I am not here to make money off these people. Just here to help. Guess ethics have skipped a generation over there on your side of the hill. Cheers my man
+1. You have a lot of consumers rooting for you and are will settle this score with their checkbooks. Best of luck and hopefully you get your vendor status soon or I see a lot of people jumping ship to "the other forum" for fresh N54 developments.
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      09-06-2012, 11:30 PM   #61
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I don't mean to be skeptical, but batmowheels? Fail. ASR "Stage 2"? Never heard from them again. Helix turbos? No hard data. Until Vishnu came out with the single turbo, the only upgrade that provided REAL gains were the RB and ASR turbos.

With all that said, if Vargas can pump out a stage 2 offering that can offer equivalent performance from RBs at $1000 less, very impressive.

If not, Rob Beck has nothing to worry about.
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      09-06-2012, 11:50 PM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tonyturbo42 View Post
Haha, yes you really have been in this business for a very very short amount of time if you think rebuilding turbos from good oem bearing housings is unethical. You may want to grab a dictionary real quick and look up what rebuild means. We rebuild turbos with good center sections that run at full boost for 24 hours a day for months. You really are a spring chicken here Rob and you are making yourself look foolish. Like I said. If you are SO sure I am going to fail why do you care. Sit back, kick your feet up and enjoy the show. And if you cant make any profit selling a set of hybrids for 3 Grand. You are one terrible business man. This is why I am not here to make money off these people. Just here to help. Guess ethics have skipped a generation over there on your side of the hill. Cheers my man
That's a lot of talk for someone who has not sold even a single N54 product. You'd better start backing things up because this community will literally eat you alive if you fail to deliver on your promises.

Fair warning, that's all.
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      09-06-2012, 11:57 PM   #63
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To the novice I really may look foolish, I agree. Good luck, and let me know if you need any more OEM centers they are piling up again.
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      09-06-2012, 11:59 PM   #64
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Guys I think we should all take it easy.

Remember WE as the community are the ones who will also benefit from this. If he can produce a product that pushes the limits of the platform and helps create a competitive (read cost friendly) environment it's all fine by me.

By having so much negativity being directed towards him already how do you think he feels about pursuing this project and doing business in the future with the n54 community?

Constructive feedback and technical discussion is always great, but some posts are straight out filled with negativity (even some hate/jealousy). Let's provide all the feedback and info we can and hope that it leads to the production of a great product for all of us.

Some members had decent success with "stage 1" type upgrades over the stockers and with a wastegate solution they will have even more potential and it's POSSIBLE that we might be able to hold more power until redline. Now I know that the exhaust side is the biggest restriction on these turbos and upping boost at redline just creates backpressure and heat, but at the same time a clipped turbine in theory will provide better flow at our bottleneck point. Now HOW MUCH better is what remains to be seen, but with a clipped turbine helping with flow and possibly a wastegate solution I do see where these turbos will have their place in the market and there is potential for good gains in the midrange and hopefully better power upto redline.

Beyond that anybody who blew their stockers, why not pick up a set of stage 1's for a GREAT price and have some benefits from the purchase as well?

I'm just trying to stay positive here... stage 1 leads to stage 2.... which will eventually lead to stage 3 and that's what most of us here have been waiting for, for a longggg longgg time.
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      09-07-2012, 12:44 AM   #65
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That's a lot of talk for someone who has not sold even a single N54 product. You'd better start backing things up because this community will literally eat you alive if you fail to deliver on your promises.

Fair warning, that's all.
I know of these guys from my brother's drag race days. They used to do some crazy custom stuff before they went industrial/commercial. I'm down the road from them.

It's not a lot of talk from someone that has been doing turbo stuff more than quite a bit of this forum has been alive.
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      09-07-2012, 01:00 AM   #66
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Big developments coming out of Hayward, CA. Which I happen to also live in!

Can't wait till my turbo's go out. I know who to go to.
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